Eleven new institutions for drug addiction.

[densa44]

If this will work I'm all for it but it hasn't worked for anything eles. The death rate from drug addiction is appalling and we need to do something. We have tried lots of ideas and nothing has worked.

This could make things worse, the patients when discharged will have no job, no money and probably no home.

The university of Lethbrige is the only institution that offers a degree in this area, do they support long term institutional care?

I used to run long term mental health institutions in Alberta and it took a lot to get the patients back into the community and get the institutions closed. The patients were there 50 years each!

Alberta loves institutions as a solution for lots of things. remember residential schools? Does anyone have better ideas or experience?

[funkman]

How about the justice system gets revamped....like life in prison for being a drug dealer. I believe you have to start at the source.

[jetboat175]

And giving drug addicts free drugs has not worked. I don't believe in safe injection sites either. Need stiff fine and jail times for the drug pushers would a start in the right direction.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by densa44

If this will work I'm all for it but it hasn't worked for anything eles. The death rate from drug addiction is appalling and we need to do something. We have tried lots of ideas and nothing has worked.

This could make things worse, the patients when discharged will have no job, no money and probably no home.

The university of Lethbrige is the only institution that offers a degree in this area, do they support long term institutional care?

I used to run long term mental health institutions in Alberta and it took a lot to get the patients back into the community and get the institutions closed. The patients were there 50 years each!

Alberta loves institutions as a solution for lots of things. remember residential schools? Does anyone have better ideas or experience?

Yup. Run for office and change things from the inside instead of moaning about it on an outdoors,fishing,hunting and trapping forum.

[Bushrat]

Let nature take its course. We have to stop enabling and supporting something we can't stop. Execute dealers first offence. Problem will come to an almost standstill within 5 years. We keep ramping up the treatment and safe supply nonsense nothing will change. Why do we keep doing the same things that don't work over and over again only aggravates the problem.

[bat119]

You can only help those that want to helped once the drugs erode the brain all hope is lost. I know a young guy had 6 kids, a house now living on the streets alone no intensions of getting cured just living day by day until the end.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by densa44

If this will work I'm all for it but it hasn't worked for anything eles. The death rate from drug addiction is appalling and we need to do something. We have tried lots of ideas and nothing has worked.

This could make things worse, the patients when discharged will have no job, no money and probably no home.

The university of Lethbrige is the only institution that offers a degree in this area, do they support long term institutional care?

I used to run long term mental health institutions in Alberta and it took a lot to get the patients back into the community and get the institutions closed. The patients were there 50 years each!

Alberta loves institutions as a solution for lots of things. remember residential schools? Does anyone have better ideas or experience?

A good start would be not normalizing drug use by handing out free drugs. Folks have no fear of drug use anymore because it has been normalized, and because there is no fear of overdosing, they feel someone will be able to bail them out. A society where no one has consequences for their decisions is broken.

[Grizzly Adams1]

I see in the news the Morley Natives are getting a bunch more money to establish a drug treatment facility. Years ago the Band bought the Two Rivers Ranch just down the road for the same purpose, it's now a badly deteriorated abandoned facility .

[yoteblaster]

Death for every drug dealer is a good start

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Let nature take its course. We have to stop enabling and supporting something we can't stop. Execute dealers first offence. Problem will come to an almost standstill within 5 years. We keep ramping up the treatment and safe supply nonsense nothing will change. Why do we keep doing the same things that don't work over and over again only aggravates the problem.

Exactly, stop throwing money at the problem, and make those responsible accountable. Extreme sentences for dealers, and stop saving the same people from overdoses, over and over again. No drugs given out, no injection sites. We are spending money, and getting nowhere, and the addicts are tying up resources, that other responsible people need.

[Ackleyman]

Caught supplying / dealing the bad stuff like meth and Fentanayl it's firing squad within a month after your convicted so we dont have to pay to keep your useless arse in jail.

[bezzola]

Good thing my dad isn’t still around this would hit a sore spot with him. He was a diabetic and paid for his needles but the junkies would go and get them for free.

[Sundancefisher]

Can’t fix it easily after the fact of addiction.

Need to get to the root of why people try drugs and then address that social issue.

[MegaHorn]

As someone who is coming up on 6 years sober I can say with 100% truth unless a person has a spiritual awakening of some kind they will never give up their addiction. Whether it be booze, drugs, gambling, sex etc. They will continue to relapse.

Sad day and age.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by densa44

If this will work I'm all for it but it hasn't worked for anything eles. The death rate from drug addiction is appalling and we need to do something. We have tried lots of ideas and nothing has worked.

This could make things worse, the patients when discharged will have no job, no money and probably no home.

The university of Lethbrige is the only institution that offers a degree in this area, do they support long term institutional care?

I used to run long term mental health institutions in Alberta and it took a lot to get the patients back into the community and get the institutions closed. The patients were there 50 years each!

Alberta loves institutions as a solution for lots of things. remember residential schools? Does anyone have better ideas or experience?

Newsflash, most "patients" currently have no job, no money and probably no home.

Deinstitutionalization hasn't worked either, it's merely exasperated the issue. Many with severe mental illness will never get "better" and drug treatment for the mentally ill only works if they take their meds. Often they don't choose to take their meds and decide to treat themselves with "their" drug of choice.

Let me ask you this, is institutionalization better or worse than leaving people to their own devices? Is it better for them to live like animals and freeze on the streets, overdose, be victims of predatory drug dealers or predators, having nowhere to wash themselves after defecating on the street and using shredded clothing to clean themselves up? Where on earth is the dignity in that?

Perhaps a place where they can have access to the basic necessities of life a more humane option. Maybe the system that you were helping run wasn't working and in need of some radical overhauling.

My work is based on 95th street north of Jasper ave and I work all over the city. Every single day I have a front row seat to the benefits of having nowhere for the mentally ill/addicted to go. Leaving the mentally ill/addicted persons on the street is not and has not been working, not for them and not for the rest of society period.



I strongly suggest that you read this decade old article by the American Medical Association Journal of Ethics, regarding institutionalization/deinstitutionalization

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org...uences/2013-10

[schleprock]

In response to Megahorns post about some kind of enlightenment, I disagree. As a person who has been sober for exactly 26 years today, it can be done by simply making the choice to quit and change their life. I was an alcoholic from the age of 15 years old to 35 years old and can honestly say that after a few days, just the same as when I quit smoking 20 years ago, all the physical cravings were gone. A person has to be honest with themselves, understand why they drank and what they have to do to abstain.

[densa44]

I'm sorry about using this form to ask important questions about things other than hunting and fishing. The reason that I do it is because this group has a vast amount of expertise on everything, the literature calls it the wisdom of crowds, and this group has it in spades. I know of no other one that has as good advice.

That's thanks to you and the other volunteer moderators.

As you can see we are far from a human solution or a solution at all. I agree that we have to do something, I just wish the government would ask some of the experts on here what should we try next.

[calgarychef]

The only we haven’t tried is hanging the dealers.
All the other ideas have failed.

The illegal drug industry in the US is worth about $150 billion a year.
I don’t think we’ll be able to get to the hanging of the dealers because with that amount of money involved they’re obviously buying off anyone they want to.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

The only we haven’t tried is hanging the dealers.
All the other ideas have failed.

The illegal drug industry in the US is worth about $150 billion a year.
I don’t think we’ll be able to get to the hanging of the dealers because with that amount of money involved they’re obviously buying off anyone they want to.

Or simply killing any politician/judge that is seriously going to try to eliminate their business.

Mexico is a good example, dozens of candidates assassinated during the '24 elections....

[W921]

I'm all for deporting, hanging, outsourcing to India convicted dealers and druggie,etc. Now having said that if someone wants to get off drugs I think it's good to have a place or institution that can give them a chance to do it.
Homeless zombies wondering the streets make no sense. So it would kind of make sense to help people if they wanted it.
What about drug testing? To run stateside years ago I needed to be drug tested all the time. Yet to be president, law enforcement, etc no drug testing. I would love to see more drug testing of everyone

[Ackleyman]

Originally Posted by W921

I'm all for deporting, hanging, outsourcing to India convicted dealers and druggie,etc. Now having said that if someone wants to get off drugs I think it's good to have a place or institution that can give them a chance to do it.
Homeless zombies wondering the streets make no sense. So it would kind of make sense to help people if they wanted it.
What about drug testing? To run stateside years ago I needed to be drug tested all the time. Yet to be president, law enforcement, etc no drug testing. I would love to see more drug testing of everyone

You should get yourself tested as soon as possible.

[DirtShooter]

The fentanyl crisis is manufactured by China as a war on the west. Chinese chemists have been going to Mexico to teach the cartels how to make it. Of course all the materials also somehow make it shipped across the border no problem.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by W921

I'm all for deporting, hanging, outsourcing to India convicted dealers and druggie,etc. Now having said that if someone wants to get off drugs I think it's good to have a place or institution that can give them a chance to do it.
Homeless zombies wondering the streets make no sense. So it would kind of make sense to help people if they wanted it.
What about drug testing? To run stateside years ago I needed to be drug tested all the time. Yet to be president, law enforcement, etc no drug testing. I would love to see more drug testing of everyone

I’d also like to see more totally random home searches by police to see if they can find more people breaking the law.
Also I’d like to see all firearm owners to have to submit their firearms once every 6 months so they can do ballistic tests and see if they can match up any to crimes.

[W921]

Why is it okay for truck drivers to have to be drug tested and randomly on top of yearly drug tested but not people in positions of power who can really hurt people.
Are steroids legal? Couple of years ago I saw leathbridge police truck driven by a guy who looked like wrestler and not Olympic type either.
Last fall fish cops were doing road checks and putting everyone on breathalyzer. Aimed at hunters and rural people. Do same thing in downtown Calgary check for horse tranq,meth ,fentanyl etc. This stuff is illegal right?
Years ago alcoholism and police used to be a thing along with divorce rates, depression, suicide etc.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by DirtShooter

The fentanyl crisis is manufactured by China as a war on the west. Chinese chemists have been going to Mexico to teach the cartels how to make it. Of course all the materials also somehow make it shipped across the border no problem.

I doubt it can be stopped completely, but it can be radically reduced if the will to do is there. My understanding is that longshoremen are in on it too and resist thoroughly going through container from China.

[Cement Bench]

my thoughts and you won’t like them

———- we need a camp like Joe Arapaho in Texas? where they live for 2 years to get clean and is cost effective

———- bring back the death penalty and enforce it within 90 days of guilty verdict at trial and have a extra appeal judge sitting to the side of the trial judge and gives a appeal ruling within 48 hours on any motion daily so the trial and appeal is over within 48 hours of the main trial

———— it is not a sociological issue but a ECOMONICS issue. 🙃ie a COST/BENEFIT ANALYSIS
we have no money to build institutions and staff them
WE NEED TO TREAT PROSTRATE CANCER, BLADDER CANCER, BREAST CANCER, REBUILD HIPS,AND KNEES
TO HECK WITH THE DOWNTRODDEN, THERE IS NO MONEY GUYS AND GALS

not cruel but it will come to this sooner than later

sad perhaps but in 50 years we have not solved the problem but made it worse and WAY MORE COSTLY

wish we could save the current crop of addicts but we need to focus on the other major problems we have as priorities

our hospital emergency room was shut down for 24 hours yesterday yet we or society saved 5 drug addicts with injections to bring them back to life at a cost of 15 grand per person if you factor in the police, hospital, social safety net, courts services and so on

did Colorado or some state do a 200 list of priority's for drugs or diseases about a decade ago ?

the end is near for a lot of expenditures

you asked for solutions this is one of them as cruel as it may seem at first

[1899b]

Originally Posted by Cement Bench

my thoughts and you won’t like them

———- we need a camp like Joe Arapaho in Texas? where they live for 2 years to get clean and is cost effective

———- bring back the death penalty and enforce it within 90 days of guilty verdict at trial and have a extra appeal judge sitting to the side of the trial judge and gives a appeal ruling within 48 hours on any motion daily so the trial and appeal is over within 48 hours of the main trial

———— it is not a sociological issue but a ECOMONICS issue. 🙃ie a COST/BENEFIT ANALYSIS
we have no money to build institutions and staff them
WE NEED TO TREAT PROSTRATE CANCER, BLADDER CANCER, BREAST CANCER, REBUILD HIPS,AND KNEES
TO HECK WITH THE DOWNTRODDEN, THERE IS NO MONEY GUYS AND GALS

not cruel but it will come to this sooner than later

sad perhaps but in 50 years we have not solved the problem but made it worse and WAY MORE COSTLY

wish we could save the current crop of addicts but we need to focus on the other major problems we have as priorities

our hospital emergency room was shut down for 24 hours yesterday yet we or society saved 5 drug addicts with injections to bring them back to life at a cost of 15 grand per person if you factor in the police, hospital, social safety net, courts services and so on

did Colorado or some state do a 200 list of priority's for drugs or diseases about a decade ago ?

the end is near for a lot of expenditures

you asked for solutions this is one of them as cruel as it may seem at first

Do obese food addicts that also put a huge strain on our medical system get a free pass??

[Cement Bench]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Do obese food addicts that also put a huge strain on our medical system get a free pass??

we understand your concern but don’t mix issues

1 problem to solve at a time

they are different and solutions are not interchangeable

start a new thread and we can comment there

you have however highlighted a problem which is why things don’t get solved there is too much

WHAT ABOUT THIS discussion to muddy the waters and dilute the chance of reaching a SEMI-PERMANENT solution

look forward to the new thread

now back to the issue at hand

[W921]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I doubt it can be stopped completely, but it can be radically reduced if the will to do is there. My understanding is that longshoremen are in on it too and resist thoroughly going through container from China.

Years ago I trucked out of Halifax and Vancouver. The word was organized crime run both ports. That's back in 80s and 90’s and I have no proof.
Remember the Toronto mayor Doug Ford smoking Crack with gangsters not that many years ago? Did he get in trouble? Makes me wonder about others.

[W921]

Originally Posted by Cement Bench

my thoughts and you won’t like them

———- we need a camp like Joe Arapaho in Texas? where they live for 2 years to get clean and is cost effective

———- bring back the death penalty and enforce it within 90 days of guilty verdict at trial and have a extra appeal judge sitting to the side of the trial judge and gives a appeal ruling within 48 hours on any motion daily so the trial and appeal is over within 48 hours of the main trial

———— it is not a sociological issue but a ECOMONICS issue. 🙃ie a COST/BENEFIT ANALYSIS
we have no money to build institutions and staff them
WE NEED TO TREAT PROSTRATE CANCER, BLADDER CANCER, BREAST CANCER, REBUILD HIPS,AND KNEES
TO HECK WITH THE DOWNTRODDEN, THERE IS NO MONEY GUYS AND GALS

not cruel but it will come to this sooner than later

sad perhaps but in 50 years we have not solved the problem but made it worse and WAY MORE COSTLY

wish we could save the current crop of addicts but we need to focus on the other major problems we have as priorities

our hospital emergency room was shut down for 24 hours yesterday yet we or society saved 5 drug addicts with injections to bring them back to life at a cost of 15 grand per person if you factor in the police, hospital, social safety net, courts services and so on

did Colorado or some state do a 200 list of priority's for drugs or diseases about a decade ago ?

the end is near for a lot of expenditures

you asked for solutions this is one of them as cruel as it may seem at first

Sheriff Joe Arpio in Arizona I would also like to point out was elected. I love this guy. This is another reason for elected local law enforcement that us accountable to the people they serve!