running coyotes with dogs?

[predatorzedge]

I was interested in getting dogs to run coyotes in alberta, but cant get any info from fish an wildlife as to if its legal or illegal, apparently grey area. I tried the outfitters 1 800 number an they said same thing. Dogs arent to kill coyotes but to push them from cover an corner them for the purpose of skinning, anyone got any info on these regulations?

[sourdough doug]

prob a post on the hunting forum might get more reads. Trappers do not use dogs for this purpose.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by predatorzedge

I was interested in getting dogs to run coyotes in alberta, but cant get any info from fish an wildlife as to if its legal or illegal, apparently grey area. I tried the outfitters 1 800 number an they said same thing. Dogs arent to kill coyotes but to push them from cover an corner them for the purpose of skinning, anyone got any info on these regulations?

At one time there were several guys running hounds on coyotes. about 2001 they got soem bad publicity and the gov chanegd the laws. It is my understanding that now a depredation permit is required. This is obtainable with proof that coyotes have caused livestock losses or damage.

Try calling. Very effective and user friendly. it is easier to carry two or three calls than even one dog

[predatorzedge]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

At one time there were several guys running hounds on coyotes. about 2001 they got soem bad publicity and the gov chanegd the laws. It is my understanding that now a depredation permit is required. This is obtainable with proof that coyotes have caused livestock losses or damage.

Try calling. Very effective and user friendly. it is easier to carry two or three calls than even one dog

i do lots of calling got some nice thick long haired coyotes one a 50 pounder, made a nice skin, but would like to run the call shy ones throuh the willows and thick stuff.

[NCC]

From what I remember, Redfrog has it right. You can use dogs for predator control but not for sport. If you get some dogs, are looking for a place to use them, and are willing to drive north, send me a PM.

[KI-UTE]

Dogs can be used, but it has to be done with a permit, whether for sport or damage control. The permit will designate a 1/4 section of land that you may hunt.

So the dog thing is legal, guys get a couple of permits, then run their dogs wherever they feel like. Good system huh? Chase the coyotes with the truck long enough that the coyote tires, then turn the dogs loose so they can rip the coyote from end to end. F&W turn a blind eye unless complaints start to come in.

However, a much better sport is made when dogs are used in conjunction with predator calling as "Decoy Dogs", however because of all the use of "running dogs" in the past, a blanket law was put in place as to the use of dogs for hunting coyotes with a permit only.

A distinction needs to be made separating the two activities, hunting with running dogs and hunting with decoy dogs. Permits should still need to be issued for the unethical running dog usage, but decoy dogs should be regulated only as much as bird dogs used in the act of bird hunting are.

[catnthehat]

How about doing it the way it's done with tracking hounds- running them and listnening to them bay, then trying to figure where they will cross to get a shot with a varmint rifle, or a shotgun.
One guy on snowshoes following the dogs.
This is the way I use to hunt them, and it was a very good time.\We sometimes killed one, sometimes two, but most times simply listened to the hounds bay!
Cat

[NCC]

What kind of hounds were you running? Sounds like a good way to get some exercise, break up the winter, and decrease the coyote population. If nothing else, the coyotes will be less inclined to sit 50 feet in the bush and yap at my dogs all night.

[Scar270]

Ki-ute, you should learn a little more about what you are talking about, I ran coyotes with grey hounds for years with my grandpa, we didn't do anything like you are talking about.

We never ran them down with the truck, there was no need, the hounds run faster then you can offroad with the truck, and they are fast enough to catch most rested coyotes on a straight run, we lost more that got into the bush and eluded the hounds then ones that ever out ran them.

They don't tear a coyote from end to end, they flip them over and go right to the jugular, I won't claim it was an instant kill, but probably quicker then guys taking pot shots at anything and gut shooting them at 4 and 500 yards. Often by the time we could get there the coyote was dead, if not we dispatched them with a .22lr.

I don't know anything about decoy dogs, but you are seriously misinformed on running dogs with grey hounds.

[predatorzedge]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

How about doing it the way it's done with tracking hounds- running them and listnening to them bay, then trying to figure where they will cross to get a shot with a varmint rifle, or a shotgun.
One guy on snowshoes following the dogs.
This is the way I use to hunt them, and it was a very good time.\We sometimes killed one, sometimes two, but most times simply listened to the hounds bay!
Cat

Thats the question i was asking from fish and wildlife and some one 800 numbers but very grey area, warden said try it an see how it pan out in court. The dogs ive seen do it were walker hounds just straight running endurance hounds, barked the hole time. The hounds would corner them in a clump of trees run out into the field and hole up the coyote till ya get there. Its not a agressive dog breed but you need at least 6 hounds so the coyote cowards to the dogs an lays there or stands his ground. Definatley good exercise, waitin on some prices for the walker hounds outa Illinois. They have good stock on the running hounds.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by NCC

What kind of hounds were you running? Sounds like a good way to get some exercise, break up the winter, and decrease the coyote population. If nothing else, the coyotes will be less inclined to sit 50 feet in the bush and yap at my dogs all night.

The neighbour where my father moved to in Ontario had Walkers, triggs, a Julky hound, and a very good red tick that was a bit slower but would go longer than the Walkers.
We never cornered a coyote, BTW, but occasionally the coyotes would turn and fight if there was only on dog on them.

Cat

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by Scar270

Ki-ute, you should learn a little more about what you are talking about, I ran coyotes with grey hounds for years with my grandpa, we didn't do anything like you are talking about.

We never ran them down with the truck, there was no need, the hounds run faster then you can offroad with the truck, and they are fast enough to catch most rested coyotes on a straight run, we lost more that got into the bush and eluded the hounds then ones that ever out ran them.

They don't tear a coyote from end to end, they flip them over and go right to the jugular, I won't claim it was an instant kill, but probably quicker then guys taking pot shots at anything and gut shooting them at 4 and 500 yards. Often by the time we could get there the coyote was dead, if not we dispatched them with a .22lr.

I don't know anything about decoy dogs, but you are seriously misinformed on running dogs with grey hounds.

Glad you posted scar270. This Ki-ute guy needs to do some serious learning before spouting. It was a travesty what the gov't did to the hound guys and the rest of the "hunters" let them be the sacrificial lamb.

[KI-UTE]

The most comical thing about guys running hounds is the following phrase; "...our dogs are good dogs, they don't tear up coyotes..."

Then go to a furbuyers place, they cringe at the thought of having to sew up all the holes. They cringe at the thought of having to pay money for a skin which is damaged, often terribly.

No, I agree, they don't tear them from end to end, not quite.

I sewed dog coyotes before for a number of fellows. Good hounds are a fallacy. However, way to support your sport!!! Congrats are in order! Can't fool me, but you can try to fool all the others.

Q: How does a guy with a permit to run hounds on a 1/4 of land keep his dogs on that quarter of land???

A: By pretending they stay there!!!

The average hound guy will tell you that you can catch more coyotes in a day by tiring the coyote out with the truck before you turn your dogs loose. If you turn your dogs loose too early, they will tire too quickly and will not be able to catch more than a coyote or two, but if you tire the coyote out, you can get more.

There are always exceptions to the rule. I heard rumours out there that there was actually one guy that had good hounds. Perhaps the most experienced of all coyote hunters in the province. However, I personally never skinned his coyotes to ascertain such with my own eyes.

So, running dog killed coyotes, I hate them, and hope that I never ever have to skin hound coyotes again.

However this fellow that wants to use tracking hounds, what an ethical way to hunt coyotes. Your problem will come with the law however, and unfortunately for you, because of the hound guys, you can't hunt coyotes in an ethical manner without getting a permit to do so. I suspect that you need a damage permit, but am uncertain as to what type of permit is required authorizing the use of dogs. If you take to your new sport and have your animal hunting at large, trailing coyotes, I have no idea as to how you will keep control of your tracking dogs. Some people don't mind dogs running at large, and others do, very much so.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by Scar270

Ki-ute, you should learn a little more about what you are talking about, I ran coyotes with grey hounds for years with my grandpa, we didn't do anything like you are talking about.

We never ran them down with the truck, there was no need, the hounds run faster then you can offroad with the truck, and they are fast enough to catch most rested coyotes on a straight run, we lost more that got into the bush and eluded the hounds then ones that ever out ran them.

They don't tear a coyote from end to end, they flip them over and go right to the jugular, I won't claim it was an instant kill, but probably quicker then guys taking pot shots at anything and gut shooting them at 4 and 500 yards. Often by the time we could get there the coyote was dead, if not we dispatched them with a .22lr.

I don't know anything about decoy dogs, but you are seriously misinformed on running dogs with grey hounds.

RIGHT ON , l knew a family back in the fiftys , the Obrays , they ran highly trained greyhounds , the pack had only one kill dog , the others would run down the coyote circle him and then the kill dog would rush in and grab the juggler in one swift motion , game over with little fur damage.
Many greyhound owners today fail to realize that greyhounds were born to hunt thease critters , thats why the slim build and long legs , and massive jaw pressure , with teeth to match.

[go-big-or-go-home]

running coyotes down with a truck, come on dude, if ur having to do that instead of letting ur dogs take care of bizz, u should leave it to people who do it rite. the closest iv ever gotin to using a truck while hunting for yotes was crusin on land that gave permission for us to be there, we would spot the yote, release the two greyhounds as the trippers, then the malamute would be seconds behind ready to finish it. gun was hardley ever used cause the dogs knew there jobs and did a crazy good job at.

[predatorzedge]

Thanks for all the info, waitin to hear back if I can get the permit cause gettin lotsa coyotes but when they come in on triples to the call an ya get one or two the third tends to get call shy very well, just wanna help the locals with the pest problem. Seen for the first time coyotes attacking calves in a corral last week, thought it was a farce hearing but did the old sit and wait and sure enough hangin on the calfs tail. Dogs would definatley be the answer. I wanna get 2 walkers, 2 plotts and a july. Suppose to be great coyote dogs. Check out nitros coyote hounds on the web.

[predatorzedge]

Originally Posted by KI-UTE

The most comical thing about guys running hounds is the following phrase; "...our dogs are good dogs, they don't tear up coyotes..."

Then go to a furbuyers place, they cringe at the thought of having to sew up all the holes. They cringe at the thought of having to pay money for a skin which is damaged, often terribly.

No, I agree, they don't tear them from end to end, not quite.

I sewed dog coyotes before for a number of fellows. Good hounds are a fallacy. However, way to support your sport!!! Congrats are in order! Can't fool me, but you can try to fool all the others.

Q: How does a guy with a permit to run hounds on a 1/4 of land keep his dogs on that quarter of land???

A: By pretending they stay there!!!

The average hound guy will tell you that you can catch more coyotes in a day by tiring the coyote out with the truck before you turn your dogs loose. If you turn your dogs loose too early, they will tire too quickly and will not be able to catch more than a coyote or two, but if you tire the coyote out, you can get more.

There are always exceptions to the rule. I heard rumours out there that there was actually one guy that had good hounds. Perhaps the most experienced of all coyote hunters in the province. However, I personally never skinned his coyotes to ascertain such with my own eyes.

So, running dog killed coyotes, I hate them, and hope that I never ever have to skin hound coyotes again.

However this fellow that wants to use tracking hounds, what an ethical way to hunt coyotes. Your problem will come with the law however, and unfortunately for you, because of the hound guys, you can't hunt coyotes in an ethical manner without getting a permit to do so. I suspect that you need a damage permit, but am uncertain as to what type of permit is required authorizing the use of dogs. If you take to your new sport and have your animal hunting at large, trailing coyotes, I have no idea as to how you will keep control of your tracking dogs. Some people don't mind dogs running at large, and others do, very much so.

Ki-ute, I think you like to start arguments to hear yurself yack and make non valid points of ethical. Ethical isnt tiring them with a truck thats sheer lazy. if you wanna save the coyote run at large with a strike sign saying so. That way we all know who you are.
I started this thread for answers and advice from others and for others who might have the same interest. If you dont like the idea thats fine but you dont have to run the ideas and beliefs of others down because you dont agree, so for next time keep in mind in which your opinions come across to others.

[KI-UTE]

I am terribly sorry if you feel that way about my comments, however they are all valid. To say otherwise is to essentially imply that these things never happen.

No not all people do these things, but many do.

However, you have stated an official govt response to your question.

Originally Posted by predatorzedge

TThats the question i was asking from fish and wildlife and some one 800 numbers but very grey area, warden said try it an see how it pan out in court.

This is optional. Hopefully should you make an attempt at this activity, you call your Fish and Wildlife officer so that he can monitor your activity.

There was plenty of good and accurate information in my posts.

[Scar270]

Originally Posted by KI-UTE

There was plenty of good and accurate information in my posts.

What good information?

That some people run down the coyotes with trucks first, maybe your country has better driving, but to do that where I used to hunt with dogs was just a good way to write off a truck, and completely unnecessary.

Tiring out the dogs? I've once seen them chase a coyote over a mile, and that one had a heck of a head start, and to tell the truth, I don't think that was the coyote they started out on, I think they lost the first one in the bush, but kicked out a second one. For the sake of a half mile run to a greyhound, I don't see the advantage to chasing them down.

That it's hard to keep the dogs on a specific quarter, that true if the coyote has a good head start, but we never released near places we didn't have permission and thought the coyote would go, my grandpa used to get lots of permissions, but I guarantee we drove by way more coyotes then we ever released the hounds on.

Your main complaint seems to be about sewing up the hides, I know there are a few more holes in the throat on a dog killed yote, but they certainly are not full of holes, and not big ones like guys with magnum rifles, my fur dealer preferred my grandpa's yotes to many of the shot ones.

As to ethical, I'd say it's more ethical with hounds then guns, never saw a 3 legged coyote because the dogs missed a bit. Either the coyote gets away, or it gets killed. Even good shots will on a rare occasion gut shoot or knock off a leg, and lose the yote.

[predatorzedge]

ki-yute i dont see any good info in your post all i see is complaining. And yes i will go talk to my local office again over the circumstances of running hounds as well as I have already sent a letter to the head fish and wildlife division of Alberta for a written response from them as to regulations and permits I can aquire to running my hounds for coyotes that way when I can have written literature from them I will post it on this thread so as others can see it as well. Scar you have valid points on the three legged coyotes many around here shot 2 last week. I would see many peoples views on both sides of this argument as it turned out to be instead of an informative thread, but if you talk with people it is definately a more humane way of destroying animals as per "gut shots at 200yrds" or forgot about wind drift with a .17. Smaller calibres will wound animals, I believed that .17 calibre was great 100yrd gun for coyotes i peppered three with that gun to save the hides that i tracked 1 mile becuase they were 1st gut shot windy day, 2nd due to distance not well placed shot and 3rd hit to high at 150 yrds entered skin leaving little blood trail but followed it up to shoot aain, when skinned out the coyote would lived with 1st one because it was just enough penetration to leave 100 ft of blood trail. Ethical no, follow up yes. I now shoot 22-250 but a dog would have killed faster and less pain without being followed another mile for a second shot. Point is to many people use wrong calibres do you critize them for it? probably not, why because you probably havent killed your first coyote yet and you sstill shoot your daisy pellet gun because its ethical once there tired from your pickup truck.

[jacob1202]

4 greyhounds and an irish wolfhound make for some interesting coyote hunting... the greys catch it and hold it down till the wolfhound gets there to finish the job...anyone want to go coyote hunting with me? LOL

[predatorzedge]

I would definately be up for that, seen hounds on cougars but none on coyotes always good to learn before hand, if yur close by I will come check it out pick me pick me pick me

[GummyMonster]

I'm glad someone has put truthful info on here about coursing hounds. I have a bit of experience with them from many years ago.
Seemed like an awesome sport! Kill's I saw were pretty humane overall.
As far as using a truck to run them down, and training the dogs to "rip them to shreds", come on ki-ute
There has been cases of people running over big game with trucks too, but I don't call them hunters and try to say that's how all people do it.
Just my two cents
Good luck and good day
Ken

[predatorzedge]

Well sounds like the hounds should be on their way here in a week or two, lookin forward to my bluetick walkers, been a long time since had a hunting dog. Now just to trainem.

[rhuntley12]

Originally Posted by jacob1202

4 greyhounds and an irish wolfhound make for some interesting coyote hunting... the greys catch it and hold it down till the wolfhound gets there to finish the job...anyone want to go coyote hunting with me? LOL

I'd be interested too bad you are in Edmonton! Would love to see something like that. My better halfs Grandfather used to have wolfhounds that would do that with the coyotes.

[Theganch]

Agreed,
I think if guys are to lazy and must hunt with dogs.... Why don't we chase them with dogs and see how they feel...I think hunting with dogs is very unethical... Can you amagin the feeling of terror. What a great way to die!! Not to mention it gives the tree huggers ammo on the way some people think of animals.... And gives us ethical hunters a hard time trying to repair he damage by such crap

[unclebuck]

Thegotch, I am happy to see that you & kiute have your halo's all polished, and more than willing to wear them while you are on your soapboxes. Perhaps you should accompany someone hunting with hounds before you condemn any and all that have hunted with hounds, and all of those that might like to!!!

[predatorzedge]

Originally Posted by Theganch

Agreed,
I think if guys are to lazy and must hunt with dogs.... Why don't we chase them with dogs and see how they feel...I think hunting with dogs is very unethical... Can you amagin the feeling of terror. What a great way to die!! Not to mention it gives the tree huggers ammo on the way some people think of animals.... And gives us ethical hunters a hard time trying to repair he damage by such crap

ok there gonch, i predator hunt by calling coyotes on farms where the coyotes are costing farmers a hellofalot of money from damage to cows and sheep. The hounds are a last resort to call shy coyotes, another words ones that I have tried everyithing to get. If you wanna talk about being unethical tell people to quit driving vehicles on the road cause they sever and wound more damn wildlife than a hound ever would. For second i wouldnt be killin the coyotes with my hounds they would bay them or push them from cover so i can shoot them. ask some questions before you yap of unethical, if you dont agree take your opinions and start a thread stationg how unfair it all is and leave this thread alone. There is good info on this thread. So you an kiyute can ky yi right out of here. man that burns me.

[Kim473]

My dad used to hunt them with grey hounds. Had a box on the truck for the dogs to sleep and ride with a line to the drivers window, when one was spoted stop the truck pull string, dogs would jump out and look all directions, they new something was around. They would chase the coyote down within 300 yards. Coyotes are stupid they will run 100 yards then stop and look, and repete. If he was not dead by the time the old man got there he would just hit him in the head with a bat. 6 Dogs no match.
He also tried breading a wolfhound with the greyhound and got a dog that looked like a greyhound with over sized paws. Very clumbsy
His hounds would get tired after about 1/2 mile but the wolfhound would be just getting warmed up about then and go for miles. His hounds could run over 35 mph, Would play with the truck at 25 mph.

[jacob1202]

kim473.... how did u know lol???? you sound like your my long lost sibling ha ha