Of road vehicle and guns

nube · #1 08-01-2014, 04:53 PM

Was reading another thread about guns on quads and the rules. I would think taking a dispatch gun is fine as you are out trapping but what is the ruling for trapline rifles of larger size for specifically wolves. I take it you still have to legally wait till noon to have the rifle on your snomachine or quad unless it is in a case?

H380 · #2 08-01-2014, 05:14 PM

Have to check with an officer on this one nube, but I kinda remember that you can carry at least a 22 while checking ? Might be in Fur regs .

bill9044 · #3 08-01-2014, 05:33 PM

If I remember from my gun course I think you are allowed to carry a hand gun on a registered trapline with a permit. Please correct me if I am wrong.
It is unlawful to:
set out, use or employ any of the following items for the purpose of hunting any wildlife:

recorded wildlife calls or sounds, or an electronically operated calling device except; 1) when hunting migratory game birds with the use of calls or sounds that mimic snow geese, or 2) using electronic calls to hunt crows, magpies, coyote, red fox and wolf (using sounds that mimic these animals, rabbits, hares, or rodents).
a pistol or revolver unless
– the person is a licenced trapper (holding a federal authorization) who is dispatching an animal caught in a trap, or
– it is an air powered pistol or revolver that discharges a projectile at less than 500 feet per second (often used for hunting small game).Hunting with Motorized Vehicles

It is unlawful to

discharge a weapon at antelope from within 46 m (50 yards) of a vehicle;
use motorized travel within Willmore Wilderness Park; and
carry a weapon (see definition) on an OHV between 1 hour before sunrise and the following noon during an open season for big game* on public land in the following WMUs: 102-166, 200-260, 300-351, 354-360, 400-446, 507, 508, 514, 521, 522, 526 and 841. This does not apply to a person who is traveling on a direct route to or from a location accessible by vehicles designed for highway travel and his or her isolated campsite, and the weapons and ammunition are carried out of view in separate locked containers (and remain locked during the trip). Also, the restriction does not apply in a WMU when the only big game season open is a spring black bear season.
* this restriction applies to all hunters (including bird game hunters).

It looks to me that you are OK to carry a 243 after the big game season is over in the morning. But you could get a permit for a hand gun. Please let us know what you find out nube.

Torkdiesel · #4 08-01-2014, 10:55 PM

Here's the deal Nube

In WMUs 102-166, 200-260, 300-351, 354-360, 400-446, 507, 508, 514, 521, 522, 526 and 841, it is unlawful to carry a weapon on an off-highway vehicle between one hour before sunrise and the following noon during an open season for big game (see the current Alberta Guide to Hunting Regulations). However, this prohibition does not apply to persons hunting on privately owned lands, and it does not apply to those trapping under the authority of a Registered Fur Management Licence or a Resident Fur Management Licence.

You're good to go Sir

Big Grey Wolf · #5 08-02-2014, 10:26 AM

Tork, not to complicate issue, but what would happen if stopped by F & W on line with rifle on Quad but have a moose tag for zone in pocket? A second question is what if line like Brians Kakwa line, lots of Grizz approaching area of line with aggressive Boar grizz put a couple shells in magazine for added safety, I believe know answer to this one.

58thecat · #6 08-02-2014, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Here's the deal Nube

In WMUs 102-166, 200-260, 300-351, 354-360, 400-446, 507, 508, 514, 521, 522, 526 and 841, it is unlawful to carry a weapon on an off-highway vehicle between one hour before sunrise and the following noon during an open season for big game (see the current Alberta Guide to Hunting Regulations). However, this prohibition does not apply to persons hunting on privately owned lands, and it does not apply to those trapping under the authority of a Registered Fur Management Licence or a Resident Fur Management Licence.

You're good to go Sir

Above is the law, step out of this and the discretion is upon the warden whether a warning is all that is needed as a reminder or they throw the book at you!

Big Grey Wolf · #7 08-02-2014, 11:06 AM

58, you are actually running your line, rifle for wolves, will be waiting for son to come for moose hunt on long weekend, but F & W checks his portable computer showing you have moose tag?? The 2nd bear one is obviously over the line.

Torkdiesel · #8 08-02-2014, 12:51 PM

Nube's original question pertained to carrying a rifle on his ATV while trapping so if he saw a wolf he could shoot it. (Correct me if I'm wrong Phil)
The law clearly states that while trapping he can carry a rifle with him.

The grey area is in situations like BGW stated earlier. What if the trapper had a moose tag or his son did. What if he had an Elk tag or deer tag that are over the counter general tags that could be used in any zone. Hard to prove some bodies intent before the action is committed.

Now personally I consider any trip to my Trapline or Trapline cabin to fall under the act of "Trapping" regardless of what time of the year it is. I don't host holiday weekends for my friends out there and for 6 months of the year it isn't visited at all. Now when I do open camp in the early fall I carry a rifle on my ATV. Whether it's clearing trails, building bridges, working on the cabin or putting up marten boxes I consider it all "Trapping"
Now when I leave the truck at first light heading to the cabin with my rifle in hand I suppose it is my personal decision whether I shoot that bull Elk standing in the cut block, or let my nephews shoot chickens on the trail.

Now like 58 said it's up to the F&W officer who you're dealing with at that point on. Personally if a trapper is out on his line and shoots a moose or elk while heading out to cut trail in the morning I don't really have too big of an issue with it. But that's just me, others will

Big Grey Wolf · #9 08-02-2014, 01:16 PM

Tork, I like your clarification. It would be hard to get allowed annual quota of 6 black bears without carring rifle on Quad. A few years back you were even allowed to shoot a moose without a license/tag for cabin food. I believe you still can but need to prove poverty which would be hard for most of us with new pick-up.

bill9044 · #10 08-02-2014, 03:02 PM

One question if I am a resident trapper am I allowed to obtain a black bear tag and hunt successfully and then send the pelt to auction. ( not that they are worth a great sum) Or do I need a trapline?

Red Bullets · #11 08-02-2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill9044

One question if I am a resident trapper am I allowed to obtain a black bear tag and hunt successfully and then send the pelt to auction. ( not that they are worth a great sum) Or do I need a trapline?

Resident trappers can't shoot or trap bears anywhere in the province.

Registered trappers: Six black bear may be hunted but not trapped in each Fur Management Area north of the Red Deer River during the open season for black bear.

I believe you could shoot a bear or two with a general hunting tag and then send the pelts to auction.

diamonddave · #12 08-02-2014, 04:29 PM

Nube you can carry your rifle on the line, no issues. But if you have anyone accompany you, that is not registered to the line, they are not allowed to have a rifle with them before noon, on a quad.

brendan's dad · #13 08-02-2014, 05:01 PM

DD

You asked me if this was legal or not yesterday on another thread. Amazing that you were able to get ahold of SRD or F&W on a Friday night to get the answer? And on a long weekend to boot!!!!! Good Job!

bill9044 · #14 08-02-2014, 11:12 PM

Would that bear have to be on private land and then be able to be sold as a resident trapper? I have shot bear in forestry while hunting elk and I am pretty sure there was a trapline do to the trappers cabin near by. I can get one general black bear tag and a supplemental tag for certain areas so max two as a general hunter. But if I hold a resident trapping licence can I sell those pelts At the auction? The rule I have looked for are quite vague and lawyery. Thanks for any help.

nube · #15 08-02-2014, 11:22 PM

Hey guys been out of town. Yes I plan on carrying for wolves but then I thought if I shot my moose while running the line I wondered if I got caught how that would work out. I personaaly think the fish cops would throw the book at you. At the same time I would hate to not have my rifle with me as well and I don't think it is right that I shouln't be allowed to carry for so many reasons

Red Bullets · #16 08-03-2014, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill9044

Would that bear have to be on private land and then be able to be sold as a resident trapper? I have shot bear in forestry while hunting elk and I am pretty sure there was a trapline do to the trappers cabin near by. I can get one general black bear tag and a supplemental tag for certain areas so max two as a general hunter. But if I hold a resident trapping licence can I sell those pelts At the auction? The rule I have looked for are quite vague and lawyery. Thanks for any help.

Email NAFA and F&W with the question.

Nait Hadya · #17 08-03-2014, 09:45 PM

What are you fellows trapping when there is an open season for big game?

Using your cabins as a hunting camp or outfitter post is probably more of a concern than weather or not your packing a 22 or a 3006.

A moose is not a fur bearer so the law is quite clear.

nube · #18 08-03-2014, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

What are you fellows trapping when there is an open season for big game?

Using your cabins as a hunting camp or outfitter post is probably more of a concern than weather or not your packing a 22 or a 3006.

A moose is not a fur bearer so the law is quite clear.

Most fur bearers are open when there is a hunting season. The only reason I would carry my rifle is for wolves specifically but if it was november and I had a moose or a deer tag while checking traps it seems kinda dumb that I would let it go. On the other hand a trapper could abuse it and say he was just checkin traps and hunt all he wants. I would hate to be out and about and run into a pack of wolves standing around and have no rifle with me. That would tick me off.

Torkdiesel · #19 08-03-2014, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

What are you fellows trapping when there is an open season for big game?

Using your cabins as a hunting camp or outfitter post is probably more of a concern than weather or not your packing a 22 or a 3006.

A moose is not a fur bearer so the law is quite clear.

Please see my post above

martinnordegg · #20 08-04-2014, 04:22 PM

Jim Mitchell is the Head of the ATA Trapper Education for Alberta and in his monthly diaries he has stated he hunts out of his cabin and has friends also do the same from his cabin. You would not think he would publish such information if it were not ok???? I certainly don't agree with what he does.

That being said I don't think it is a very good PR move for the trapper to be quading around before noon when hunting season is in full swing. Just my opinion but I would have to say it would be very rude and disrespectful especially when hunters have a few years to wait between draws. I make a point of not doing it on my line.

Do what you want..... you T-Off the hunters that frequent the area and the life expectancy of your cabin and equipment could shorten quickly.

Dark Wing · #21 08-04-2014, 07:22 PM

Pretty sure if you get caught shooting a big game animal in the AM off of your quad will get you a fine and license suspension. Carrying tags and your big rifle would probably get you the same. Give F&W a call or fire them an email to confirm it.

sourdough doug · #22 08-04-2014, 09:55 PM

How many times has it happened, when an innocent question is asked and then a whole lot of scenerios are presented, only to be picked up by some legislator and then all hell breaks loose with a whole raft of new regs.
Sometimes its just best to leave things alone. Pack a 120 with you and you are trapping or if you don't have your licence yet but are carrying a rifle,.. so you are clearing line or checking for whatever. The fish cops won't throw you in jail.
And don't give some of these "people" who think the world will end if you hunt, with friends, from your cabin.....any thing to chew on....that'll really pizz them off

Dark Wing · #23 08-04-2014, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

How many times has it happened, when an innocent question is asked and then a whole lot of scenerios are presented, only to be picked up by some legislator and then all hell breaks loose with a whole raft of new regs.
Sometimes its just best to leave things alone. Pack a 120 with you and you are trapping or if you don't have your licence yet but are carrying a rifle,.. so you are clearing line or checking for whatever. The fish cops won't throw you in jail.
And don't give some of these "people" who think the world will end if you hunt, with friends, from your cabin.....any thing to chew on....that'll really pizz them off

Get a little to much sun today Doug. New regs ?????? Don't think the ATV restrictions for big game hunting are anything new. Seems pretty simple, if you want to hunt and trap in the morning in a FLUZ area do it on foot or in your truck.

diamonddave · #24 08-05-2014, 11:54 AM

[QUOTE=brendan's dad;2508393]DD

You asked me if this was legal or not yesterday on another thread. Amazing that you were able to get ahold of SRD or F&W on a Friday night to get the answer? And on a long weekend to boot!!!!! Good Job![/QUOT

As you can see, I all ready knew the answer, you learn a thing or two when you have been doing it for 25 years. You should get out and give it a go.....

Big Grey Wolf · #25 08-05-2014, 12:13 PM

Dark Wing try this on for size. Running my line with Quad and rifle, shoot a black bear (big game) for my 6 allowed for fur. Hunting or trapping??

Torkdiesel · #26 08-05-2014, 12:28 PM

Nube had texted me a while ago about all the specific rules and regulations that are not listed in the trapping synopsis, does anybody know where these laws are posted or if there is another trapline regulation book. Things like cabin size, applying for a cabin building spot, use of the cabin. All the things we have heard and said but have never actually seen in writing. At least I haven't anyway.

diamonddave · #27 08-05-2014, 12:36 PM

I've never seen anything, we had always had to call to get any clarification on the crazy questions.

nube · #28 08-05-2014, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diamonddave

I've never seen anything, we had always had to call to get any clarification on the crazy questions.

That is the problem Dave I think. We all have questions and being new to it all I could just go by what everyone says and flip a coin or try and get answers. So far I have talked to the fish cops and there is no actual rule book other than trapping regs. With the regs you have to either be a lawyer to figure some of it out or it is basically up to interpretation or the fish cop and we all know how that could end up.
I was told by the one fish cop doing my paperwork that his boss would be sending me info on what is allowed and not allowed when I got the papers for my line. I did not get any rule book and when asked about some of these questions he sent me the trapping regs which doesn't even talk about some of the questions that have been posted here and questions we all have. From what I have seen so far for anything trapping there is a ton of things that are unclear and even the fish cops don't know what to say at times.
To me it seems legal to be able to carry a rifle for clearing trail shooting bears for the line and shooting wolves while checking traps. The thing is I think if a fish cop wanted to he could ticket you for this and I just wondered how people interpreted this. To me it isn't clear.

diamonddave · #29 08-05-2014, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nube

That is the problem Dave I think. We all have questions and being new to it all I could just go by what everyone says and flip a coin or try and get answers. So far I have talked to the fish cops and there is no actual rule book other than trapping regs. With the regs you have to either be a lawyer to figure some of it out or it is basically up to interpretation or the fish cop and we all know how that could end up.
I was told by the one fish cop doing my paperwork that his boss would be sending me info on what is allowed and not allowed when I got the papers for my line. I did not get any rule book and when asked about some of these questions he sent me the trapping regs which doesn't even talk about some of the questions that have been posted here and questions we all have. From what I have seen so far for anything trapping there is a ton of things that are unclear and even the fish cops don't know what to say at times.
To me it seems legal to be able to carry a rifle for clearing trail shooting bears for the line and shooting wolves while checking traps. The thing is I think if a fish cop wanted to he could ticket you for this and I just wondered how people interpreted this. To me it isn't clear.

No Nube, they do have the exception for trappers in the regs about the gun, but you are 100% right about everything not being black and white.

Backwoods Runner · #30 08-05-2014, 01:11 PM

Why is it that people always have to find a loophole. The laws are confusing enough. If the laws had to close all the loopholes we would never understand them. Maybe just use your head and have some respect for others.