Military Resources to Ukraine exceeds aid to Canada's own Military

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by raab

They don’t need a lot of people when they can afford full page “ads” in our newspapers and they spend tons on our Universities. Never mind the money in politics.

They can influence what people believe, and that’s true power. When you’ve been fooled and you don’t even know it.

That's true, but it's a multi pronged approach. Sounds like they pick a riding that's a close call, and then flood that area with cash from out of the riding. That cash is then used for those newspaper "ads" or whatever the candidate needs to help them win. As a side note the money sent in was a tax deductible political donation, (after being laundered through the River Rock casino).

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Fisherdan

Hey Sundance. Just to push back a bit… in regards to Iraq and Afghanistan, I agree with you on why it didn’t work. So it took two decades for America to figure out “western values” were unworkable there? The leadership is either completely incompetent, or has their values misplaced, to put it nicely. I’d say all that time, effort and lives were not lost because of Iraqi or Afghan culture, but rather the prolonged and overreaching efforts of the invading countries.

It’s not obvious to me that this war is totally different. Is the West “helping” Ukraine? It sounds like a very complicated country, with a complex history, and with different viewpoints from east to west. There are people on this forum from that part of the world who demonstrate this… their world views are not the same as a typical person from Alberta. But here we are, pushing for their freedom at all cost.

And with all this, Russian gas has been knocked out of Europe, to be replaced, in part, with boatloads of “green” LNG (whatever the heck that is - just repeating what Biden calls it). Well, at least there’s a plan to make money.

I think in a different post you mentioned that the world is largely behind Ukraine and efforts against the invading Russians. Here is a recent NY times piece that casts a different view on this theme. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...opolitics.html

I have always found American foreign policy was egotistical and based upon only American values. Operating in other cultures you just can’t switch and replace. American and western culture in general has evolved over time and their society’s mindset, thinking and expectations have evolved with it.

We are biased certainly to say we are right however we can’t go to a neighbour who has been living their own life and say change to accept me as your sole source of who you are and will be.

We also need to be Frank and say some things are obvious. Our value of life and liberty is upper most in our values. Not so much in other countries either by design or economic circumstance. Some countries are led by matriarchal or patriarchal leaders who often are based in religious ideology. Once you start saying I will change your culture… you are going to fail. That takes generations. Not a coup, or regime change and not even money can make it work.

Now we acknowledge this view from a western perspective and pivot to Russia.

Russia geopolitically has the same aspirations of the west. No different. Russia also wants to change other countries to meet their opinions of politics and culture. They want Georgia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova and others to follow Russia doctrine, Russia politics, Russian religion… They use force, coercion, propaganda to get their way. If the country doesn’t want it they eliminate their competition politically. Assassins have lots of work. In the case of Ukraine… Russia didn’t want to just take over the Donbas etc… they want 100% control over the whole country. They want to de-Ukraine the whole country. They’ve said it publicly.

There is no justification for any country attacking and taking over a democratically elected government.

As for green LNG… that is natural gas replacing coal. Can also be replacing petroleum. Can also be displacing natural gas from a country with no Carbon reduction plan I’m place nor good environmental controls.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by EZM

Regarding some comments about NATO expansion, here's the reality of it ....

NATO is not a cheap club to join and requires significant financial commitment, strict territorial covenants, and a REQUIREMENT to directly engage your military to come to aid/defense of another member nation even if the war is of no interest to you. It's a big commitment.

The big benefit is you will receive protection if you are attacked - and, as a result, your membership acts as a deterrent.

With Russia's activity in the last few decades under Putin - I think RUSSIA is the best salesman selling NATO to it's surrounding neighbors and is the BIGGEST root cause of "NATO Expansion".

You have to look no further than Finland and Sweden to prove your point on NATO expansion. Neither would be banging on the door to get into NATO without the clear and present danger posed by Russia. Finland learned first hand what it's like to be invaded by Russia in '39, and has spent the better part of a century trying to not rile them up, lest they invade again and annex yet more "historic Russian land" (sound familiar???). Now they know that staying out of NATO to appease Russia is a fools game and want in ASAP.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by EZM

Regarding some comments about NATO expansion, here's the reality of it ....

NATO is not a cheap club to join and requires significant financial commitment, strict territorial covenants, and a REQUIREMENT to directly engage your military to come to aid/defense of another member nation even if the war is of no interest to you. It's a big commitment.

The big benefit is you will receive protection if you are attacked - and, as a result, your membership acts as a deterrent.

With Russia's activity in the last few decades under Putin - I think RUSSIA is the best salesman selling NATO to it's surrounding neighbors and is the BIGGEST root cause of "NATO Expansion".

It is also a high bar to be approved for membership.

Ability to meet financial commitments
Stable democratic government
Minimal corruption and laws against corruption
No other members veto it just to name a few.

The argument Russia attacked to stop Ukraine joining NATO… it wasn’t happening. Ukraine had many problems to work on. They didn’t even meet EU requirements however due to Putin’s actions they relaxed some rules.

Also NATO has been the same distance away from Moscow as Ukraine for over 20 years and no fighting or attacks. In facts NATO had been winding down.

Now NATO is winding back up, updating and expanding faster than ever due to Putin.

This points to Putin’s goal being a land grab and not caring at all about NATO.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I guarantee as soon as Putin is ousted/removed etc you will see a complete different Russia.

...With boatloads of nukes suddenly in the wind...

[raab]

Originally Posted by Scott h

That's true, but it's a multi pronged approach. Sounds like they pick a riding that's a close call, and then flood that area with cash from out of the riding. That cash is then used for those newspaper "ads" or whatever the candidate needs to help them win. As a side note the money sent in was a tax deductible political donation, (after being laundered through the River Rock casino).

No, it is way bigger than that. Billions spent on Universities, Media, and Politicians. Heck the South China Morning Post is sold in Canada which is basically a CCP propaganda tool.


To give you an example check out this story from CBC. How many post office employees give a crap about what a newspaper says about the CCP? This is CCP propaganda coming through a Canadian news outlet.

https://youtu.be/zCtCoy37l-E

[raab]

You know how everyone was talking about the WEF and a dystopian tracking nightmare. Well China already has that and wants the rest of the world to adopt it. The one thing the CCP fears is that their people discover liberty and oust them.

This was an interesting video touching on coronavirus and how the CCP used it. https://youtu.be/8627JQThePk

This is another interesting video that shows the CCP mindset vs ours. Also given the the metaphor used by the Red China General in this video, I think it applies to what Brig. Gen Spalding was talking about in the video above.

https://youtu.be/t8tooLXm1YA

Make no mistake the Chinese do not intend to invade, they intend to control.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by raab

Make no mistake the Chinese do not intend to invade, they intend to control.

I think you are exactly right here. Agreed.