Drop vrs redical

[00Dark]

Hi all,

Trying to figure out a dope set for 30.06 168ttsx

@100 I’m 1.5 to 2 high.
The box says -7.4 @300.
The dead hood says -4.5 “Vortex viper 6.5-20x50”

Today’s shoot @300 was as low as -4 to -8. 5 rnds. in 10inc. Crappy as hell lol

“Vortex viper 6.5-20x50”. T3 lite. Harris bipod. Factory rnds.

[marky_mark]

Don’t trust the box

[tikka250]

Factory speeds and drop are only a suggestion. That's completely normal to have ammo not going where the box said.
Same with vortex dead hold reticle. The printed adjustments are just to give you a ballpark place to start.
Just re adjust, remember or write down your adjustments and keep shooting.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 00Dark

Hi all,

Trying to figure out a dope set for 30.06 168ttsx

@100 I’m 1.5 to 2 high.
The box says -7.4 @300.
The dead hood says -4.5 “Vortex viper 6.5-20x50”

Today’s shoot @300 was as low as -4 to -8. 5 rnds. in 10inc. Crappy as hell lol

“Vortex viper 6.5-20x50”. T3 lite. Harris bipod. Factory rnds.

Is your range calibrated in yards or meters? I have no idea as to your mention of "redical , or " dead hood". If your groups have 4" variation in elevation, you can't really tell what the trajectory is.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Is your range calibrated in yards or meters? I have no idea as to your mention of "redical , or " dead hood". If your groups have 4" variation in elevation, you can't really tell what the trajectory is.

I am guessing reticle, and dead hold.

As stated OP you cannot use either the # on the box or the reticle for exact drop in your particular gun. 10" group at 300 and 4" vertical variation leads me to believe either you have something amuck with the rifle/ scope/ rings or you need a better shooting platform/ fundamentals while shooting at that distance. Or perhaps your rifle hates that bullet powder combo??? Feel free to pm me for help or perhaps try to have someone else verify your accuracy potential with your setup.
How does it group at 100?

[CNP]

You’re not going to get anywhere without chronographing your load. Alternatively, zero at 200 and shoot 300 to see what the drop is. No one can figure this out for you.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

I am guessing reticle, and dead hold.

As stated OP you cannot use either the # on the box or the reticle for exact drop in your particular gun. 10" group at 300 and 4" vertical variation leads me to believe either you have something amuck with the rifle/ scope/ rings or you need a better shooting platform/ fundamentals while shooting at that distance. Or perhaps your rifle hates that bullet powder combo??? Feel free to pm me for help or perhaps try to have someone else verify your accuracy potential with your setup.
How does it group at 100?

I don't get whether he is using the same crosshairs for all shooting or a bdc retical that isn't giving him the results he expects. And many people are shooting at a range calibrated in meters, and expecting their results to match the trajectory for yards. As for the group size, the much wider horizontal, sounds like shooting form

[00Dark]

Range is in M. I understand the yard being smaller then a m

At 100 I was able to sub group with same setup. But using Federal Copper rnds
Was at 1.5 -2 inch high group at 100 = 200 ish zero

I was using the 1st hash Mark. But up 3 inch from of the bullseye to get the -7
As suggested for “class b” zero at 200. =-4.5 ish from the paperwork in the scope box.

Hopping to have a better Sunday shoot might be -temps lol

[Dean2]

I would normally try to help but have no idea what he is actually saying. The one thing that was clear is you say you are getting a ten inch group at 300 yards, so either need a lot more practice or you need to limit your shots to 150 yards.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 00Dark

Range is in M. I understand the yard being smaller then a m

At 100 I was able to sub group with same setup. But using Federal Copper rnds
Was at 1.5 -2 inch high group at 100 = 200 ish zero

I was using the 1st hash Mark. But up 3 inch from of the bullseye to get the -7
As suggested for “class b” zero at 200. =-4.5 ish from the paperwork in the scope box.

Hopping to have a better Sunday shoot might be -temps lol

Class b zero? Would you explain what that is supposed to be. By first hash mark, do you mean the main crosshairs, or the next hash mark? The trajectory of your load is not likely going to match the bdc retical hash marks exactly. For instance, with some loads, a 200 yard zero with the main crosshairs is recommended, but in my case, I use a 200m /220 yard zero, so the hash marks closely match the trajectory of my load at 300/400/500 yards. I came up with that number using the chronographed velocity of my load, the BC. of the bullet, and the calculator for my scope retical, and then I verified it with actual shooting, and it is very close. And no matter what you do, some bdc reticals will not match your load trajectory at even yardages like 300/400/500.
And the difference between yards and meters is only 10%, but that 10% is significant at 300 yards, and becomes even more significant at longer yardages.

I would normally try to help but have no idea what he is actually saying. The one thing that was clear is you say you are getting a ten inch group at 300 yards, so either need a lot more practice or you need to limit your shots to 150 yards.

It is very difficult to understand what he is trying to say, which makes it even more difficult to help him.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by 00Dark

Range is in M. I understand the yard being smaller then a m

At 100 I was able to sub group with same setup. But using Federal Copper rnds
Was at 1.5 -2 inch high group at 100 = 200 ish zero

I was using the 1st hash Mark. But up 3 inch from of the bullseye to get the -7
As suggested for “class b” zero at 200. =-4.5 ish from the paperwork in the scope box.

Hopping to have a better Sunday shoot might be -temps lol

Sorry I have no idea what your trying to say here.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by 00Dark

Range is in M. I understand the yard being smaller then a m

At 100 I was able to sub group with same setup. But using Federal Copper rnds
Was at 1.5 -2 inch high group at 100 = 200 ish zero

I was using the 1st hash Mark. But up 3 inch from of the bullseye to get the -7
As suggested for “class b” zero at 200. =-4.5 ish from the paperwork in the scope box.

Hopping to have a better Sunday shoot might be -temps lol

Sorry I have no idea what your trying to say here. Best thing I can say is find someone who knows how to shoot at moderate- extended range and have them come along...

[Big Lou]

Originally Posted by 00Dark

Range is in M. I understand the yard being smaller then a m

At 100 I was able to sub group with same setup. But using Federal Copper rnds
Was at 1.5 -2 inch high group at 100 = 200 ish zero

I was using the 1st hash Mark. But up 3 inch from of the bullseye to get the -7
As suggested for “class b” zero at 200. =-4.5 ish from the paperwork in the scope box.

Hopping to have a better Sunday shoot might be -temps lol

I’m going to take a stab at interpreting this. Correct me if I’m wrong.

At 100m you’re able to group sub MOA. Using your Federal Copper rounds you’re 1.5-2” high at 100m which you’re assuming will translate to a 200m zero without actually proving the validity. Then using your first holdover hash in your reticle, you’re assuming this should be zero at 300m but not getting the results expected my what is provided on the ammunition box when shooting. You’re having to hold higher than you expected to get the correct trajectory for that distance. Am I close here?

I agree with Elk that you’ll have difficulty trying to establish much of anything with a 10” group.

[00Dark]

Originally Posted by Big Lou

I’m going to take a stab at interpreting this. Correct me if I’m wrong.

At 100m you’re able to group sub MOA. Using your Federal Copper rounds you’re 1.5-2” high at 100m which you’re assuming will translate to a 200m zero without actually proving the validity. Then using your first holdover hash in your reticle, you’re assuming this should be zero at 300m but not getting the results expected my what is provided on the ammunition box when shooting. You’re having to hold higher than you expected to get the correct trajectory for that distance. Am I close here?

I agree with Elk that you’ll have difficulty trying to establish much of anything with a 10” group.

What he said.. lol I just suck at explaining

[Big Lou]

Originally Posted by 00Dark

What he said.. lol I just suck at explaining

Just something else to work on!

I prefer to use math and a chrono to figure all this stuff out but you can still get yourself a working holdover without that that gear. Establish your zero at 200. Then on a 300 bull, with your crosshair; shoot your group and hopefully it’s better than 10”. Mark your group so you can easily see the centre of it from 300. Hold your crosshair on the bull and adjust the magnification on your scope until your 300 hash intersects the centre of your group with your crosshair still on the bull. Mark it with some temporary identifier. Then prove it. Might take a tweak or two either way. Once proven, make a more permanent mark. That’ll give you a working holdover to 300 ON THAT ZOOM. The others, you’ll still have to prove but gets you going.

[00Dark]

Thanks Big Lou

[FishOutOfWater]

First thing I'd do, is check my scope & mount. Make sure every screw is tight. Even the rail, so pull the scope off first then remount.
(10" @ 300 is 3 MOA, not particularly good)

Second, is get yourself a good Ballistic App... Strelok, Hornady, Applied Ballistics (AB Mobile), GeoBallistics (BallisticsArc)...
Pick one. They all work.

Third, is go get yourself a chronograph. Beg, borrow, or buy one. For accurate DOPE, it's a must.
Combine that info with known POI @ distance, to correct your BC.

Forth thing - go get yourself 3 to 5 boxes of different ammo of different weights & composition.
And don't let the price stop you from finding out if your rifle likes that ammo.


Sounds like you really need to start fresh...

[elkhunter11]

When it comes right down to it, if you learn the trajectory of your load by shooting the load, and you learn the poi at each hash mark, you can ignore the calculations, charts, and numbers on the ammunition boxes. Where the load actually shoots, is much more important than any calculated trajectory.
When I started shooting, chronographs , and bdc reticals were unknown to the average shooter, we just shot at 100/200/300/400/500 yards and observed the actual poi at each distance, and that worked for us. At least it worked better than it does now for many people that buy a bdc scope or use turrets, and blindly trust calculated trajectories, without verifying them with actual shooting.

[Redneck 7]

Lots of good points already stated. But, one thing to consider is if your scope is second focal plane. As you shoot further you may adjust your magnification and then your reticles increments change as well.

That could throw you for a loop and you not even know about it. Where do you live? I have a chrono and I don’t mind getting out and shooting, I know a spot I can set up steel out to 800m or yards. We can get you set up and figured out in no time.

[spazzy]

My first thought when I read your post is a possible parallax error, way to check hold rifle still and slightly lift head up and down while aiming at target. if cross hairs move from target without rifle moving you have parallax error .

[FishOutOfWater]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCsOXwv_BY

Trajectory Calculation - Muzzle Velocity Without Chronograph

-IMPACT SHOOTING

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Redneck 7

Lots of good points already stated. But, one thing to consider is if your scope is second focal plane. As you shoot further you may adjust your magnification and then your reticles increments change as well.

Yep this is key. The Dead Hold BDC reticle is only going to work as you expect it to at 18x magnification.

https://vortexoptics.com/amfile/file...oduct_id/1356/

Also, just to clarify something else. You were able to get a group you were happy with using the Federal ammo but now you've gone over to the Barnes Vor-TX? Keep in mind that it may not group as well, you should also shoot a 100m group to make sure that isn't the cause of your problems.

[00Dark]

Way better day today.
Put the tikka back on one MDT HS3 chassis.

100y range, rechecked it with range finder

Tryed fed blue box 150grn sub moa 5 shots poa 2 inc below at 100y

Tryed the barns 168grn back to all over. Left or right up or down. 4 inc groups

Tryed fed blue box 180grn 9 Snap shots @ 9, 3 inch targets. 4 in the 1 inc Centre 5 within 2.5inch.

No 300y today ran out of time.

[Ariu]

As i understood from your initial post you were trying to figure out the ballistics of a factory round. On the other post you have changed the rifle configuration (chassis, bipod) and then shooting for grouping.

Why did you change the chassis? Tikkas are accurate rifles, do not get lost and spend money for nothing. My steps would be as follow:

Based on game and hunting conditions choose the type of ammo that gets the job done. Lets say ammo 1 loaded with 180gn cup and core bullet; ammo 2 loaded with 165gn A frame bullets or ammo 3 loaded with 150gn mono bullets.
Buy different boxes from ammo 1, 2 and 3 and hit the range. Check which one groups best in your rifle and sight in your rifle with this ammo.
Once the rifle is zeroed, take different shots at different distances to check your POI. Take notes and prepare a cheat sheet. Sell the remaining ammo or use it for practice. If you want to use the Vortex ballistic program you would need to measure the bullets MV. The ones given on the box are usually too optimistic and most likely will not match the one from your rifle.