Field tips and broadheads

[calgarychef]

So I’m mostly a longbow shooter. I had a cheap compound that I killed 2 deer with but I decided I wanted an APA (mostly because it’s more field maintainable).

My Broadheads are hitting about 6” from my field tips..I had the bow paper tuned at Jimbows. Is this common. Is this the reason so many people are using mechanicals? Is 55#’s enough for a mechanical head?

[rem338win]

It needs more tuning.

Look into bareshaft tuning or french tuning.

[SouthWestRanger]

Tuned bows will shoot fixed better, mechanicals are more forgiving on untuned bows.

[KyleSS]

When it was paper tuned, who was shooting it? Was it a Jimbow's staff? If so, I'm guessing that the way your post is written, you dont shoot a whole bunch and your form and shooting technique isn't nearly that of a Jimbows staff. The bow would be paper tuned for a torque less execution.

It could also be weak spined arrows. Under spined arrows will really show their weakness when you put a broadhead on.

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[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by KyleSS

When it was paper tuned, who was shooting it? Was it a Jimbow's staff? If so, I'm guessing that the way your post is written, you dont shoot a whole bunch and your form and shooting technique isn't nearly that of a Jimbows staff. The bow would be paper tuned for a torque less execution.

It could also be weak spined arrows. Under spined arrows will really show their weakness when you put a broadhead on.

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Jim tuned it, and shot it. Then a couple days later I tried Broadheads..2 and 3 blades by the way. All shot high and left (I’m right handed). Then I went to CAC and shot and also chatted with Bryan and he suggests adjusting the sites to the Broadheads...but that of course means shooting field points for practice is out during the hunting season.

I’m shooting about 55# 28” 400 spine arrows with 125 grain tips. And using a Winn relax release.

I know how to tune trad gear very well but compounds are a different breed to me. Maybe I’ll try the French tuning idea a bit.

[Kurt505]

I think they recommend at least 60lbs for mechanicals.

[KyleSS]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Jim tuned it, and shot it. Then a couple days later I tried Broadheads..2 and 3 blades by the way. All shot high and left (I’m right handed). Then I went to CAC and shot and also chatted with Bryan and he suggests adjusting the sites to the Broadheads...but that of course means shooting field points for practice is out during the hunting season.



I’m shooting about 55# 28” 400 spine arrows with 125 grain tips. And using a Winn relax release.



I know how to tune trad gear very well but compounds are a different breed to me. Maybe I’ll try the French tuning idea a bit.

Check a spine chart, I'm not sure but those sound weak to me.

Jim also paper tuned my bow, then I shot it and it was tearing. Jim has a near perfect grip and form. I do not haha I then got Jim to help me paper tune it with me shooting.

I'm sure your bow is very close and just needs a couple small rest adjustments.

In the archery section there is a thread call broadhead tuning. It has pictures and a very good explanation.

You may just need to drop to 100 grain heads or go to a stiffer shaft.

I'd start with confirming the spine is correct then look up the broadhead tuning thread.

Broadhead tuning shouldn't take more than an hour. But will be near impossible if you're under spined

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[Lefty-Canuck]

60-65KE is for Mechanicals, as recommended by manufacturers. What rest are you using?

A paper tune is a good start, if you want to use fixed blades I recommend a bare shaft tune starting at 10yrds and work your way out to 20. What bow and rest is on your bow? A bare shaft (one with no fletching) will fly and behave like a fletcher shaft with a fixed blade at the front... not sure why but it just does.

When Bare shaft tuning everything is critical... grip, release, cam lean, centershot, all components have to be set perfect. It’s an advanced tuning technique.

If your broad heads are consistently hitting the same place, more your sights so they hit where you aim and realize at this point, there is some work to do. Either on you or your setup.

Broadheads and field points don’t always hit the same place at all distances BTW, it’s just physics... rotational drag and aerodynamics (physics) dictate that they shouldn’t be exactly the same but that’s not to say they can’t be close.

LC

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

60-65KE is for Mechanicals, as recommended by manufacturers. What rest are you using?

A paper tune is a good start, if you want to use fixed blades I recommend a bare shaft tune starting at 10yrds and work your way out to 20. What bow and rest is on your bow? A bare shaft (one with no fletching) will fly and behave like a fletcher shaft with a fixed blade at the front... not sure why but it just does.

When Bare shaft tuning everything is critical... grip, release, cam lean, centershot, all components have to be set perfect. It’s an advanced tuning technique.

If your broad heads are consistently hitting the same place, more your sights so they hit where you aim and realize at this point, there is some work to do. Either on you or your setup.

Broadheads and field points don’t always hit the same place at all distances BTW, it’s just physics... rotational drag and aerodynamics (physics) dictate that they shouldn’t be exactly the same but that’s not to say they can’t be close.

LC

It’s an APA Mamba 7.5 with their drop away rest.

[Coiloil37]

A paper tune is a very crude tuning technique. It’s a rough start at best, personally I don’t even waste my time with it.

A bare shaft goes exactly where the bow shoots it because it has zero fletching control exerted on it.
A fixed blade broadhead gets steering input from the blades and they can pull the arrow much closer to where the bow was trying to shoot it (much like the bare shaft).
Fletched field tips are controlled by the fletching as they can easily steer the front of the arrow.

I don’t shoot or tune any APA bows so I can’t help with that. Tuning can take much longer then an hour to do properly so get that idea out of your head.

My suggestion if the arrow is shooting high and left is to move your rest down and to the right. Address each issue individually, elevation and windage in seperate adjustments and you’ll be moving your rest a very tiny amount.

What you should find is that your broadhead tipped arrows groups will move much quicker then your fletched shafts and the two groups should start hitting in the same place. If you get to a point where the two groups are not hitting in the same place and they’re both moving in relation to your rest movements you either have a (bow) tune or shooter induced torque issue. Then you’ll have to decide which one it is.
It’s also possible for your elevation issue you need to move the knock point instead of the rest or it could be rest timing but if you don’t know what your doing start with the easy option of moving the rest. A 6” difference at 20 yards might be as little as a 1/64” rest movement.

This is all under the assumption your broadheads are spinning straight on your arrows. Buy or build a spinner and make sure they are because if they’re not you’ll only be wasting your time and chasing your tail.

Your not under spined either.

Any bow shop who thinks a paper tune is the answer to anything or who would suggest to simply sight in for your broadheads doesn’t know what they’re doing.

[calgarychef]

Thanks for the insight, things are coming together.

So I French tuned tonight and got my left right very good with both Broadheads and field tips.

I suppose I can do the vertical tuning in the same fashion?
So if I follow the arrow with the sight at close range until it’s splitting a horizontal string then back up and try again -that’s when I should adjust the rest height?
I can’t really adjust the rest height on this bow, so would adjusting the knock point on the string be advisable?

[magoonpointboy]

Here's my $0.02.
It's already hunting season. Don't start messing with the tuning of your bow. You should just be shooting it, and feeling confident that your broadheads will hit what you aim at. Adjust the site so that the broad head is hitting the target. It doesn't matter where the field points hit, only that you are shooting tight groups. When I practise, I shoot 5 field tips into one target and them one broadhead into another. I don't care where the field tips hit, I just focus on my form. As long as the broadhead hits the dot, I'm happy. (And more importantly, confident.)
After hunting season is over, go figure out if anything is wrong with your tuning, or do what you like to get field tips and broadheads hitting the same spot, if that's important to you. Right now, just shoot it and hunt with it.

[Coiloil37]

French tuning or modified French tuning gets your windage set. It’s usually where you start and not as advanced as bareshaft and broadhead tuning. If it worked for your windage with the broadheads that’s fine but all you needed to do was move the rest to have the broadhead tipped arrows and field tipped arrows groups converge. That’s assuming they did/do at all ranges. If they don’t you need to spend time on the bow (usually yoke tuning) or your form but regardless let’s assume you got that correct.

For the vertical separation it’s one or the other (rest height/nocking point). You typically set the rest/nocking point so the arrow is lined up with the Berger hole and then play with the rest height in small increments and only move the nocking point again if nock travel is an issue and you don’t want to tune it by adjusting individual limb weight or an individual draw stop aka because moving it is the right thing to do because it’s in the wrong position. In your case, if your unwilling/unable to move the rest you can try tweaking the nocking point. If it’s wrong your going to end up with a nock travel issue that you probably won’t tune out and you’ll need to put the nocking point back where it was. If it’s correct, you’ll get the result you want and it’ll be happy hunting.



Broadheads were hitting higher then field tips so either move your rest down a whisker or move the nocking point up a hair. If it doesn’t work, put it back and adjust the rest.


Have you checked all the fundamentals first? ATA, brace, draw weight, let off, cams are timed and synced, draw stops hitting correctly, cam lean, etc? Not a big deal at this stage of the game because the end goal is to get hunting and you might achieve it with a few rest movements but to be properly tuned and to have a forgiving tune these are things you need to look at next year.

Bow tuning is a bell curve. There are tunes that give acceptable results or use techniques to disguise problems but they’re less forgiving then a tune that’s “correct” and as forgiving as possible. A well tuned bow can shoot huge broadheads with minimal fletching and tolerate some form issues and still stack arrows exactly where they’re supposed to go. A poorly tuned bow can still put all the groups on the point of aim but it requires perfect form, more fletching and is for a lack of a better term “touchy”.

[ChefJay]

Yeah man, you shouldn't really have to move your sight much when broached tuning your bow.
Sight your bow in with your field tips.
then shoot your fixed blade broad heads a few times rot see where they are consistently shooting.
Its hard to describe but here is a youtube video. this guy does a great job of describing adjusting your rest and not your sight to get your broad heads shooting where your field points are hitting. move your rest not your sights.
check out inside out precision if the link doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWwvjNs8UYI

[stickflicker]

Great information in that video.