Minimum Poundage for Hunting

[Bulldog Hunter]

Hey Guys, asking your opinions. I have a Bowtech Diamond that I've had for a few years, and have been practicing all summer. The question I have is 55lbs (max for my bow) enough for hunting. I feel very comfortable up to 30yrds, but not as efficient past there, so this would be my limit. Looking to only hunt whitetail this year with the bow, and if I become hooked, potentially go bigger in a year or two.

Thanks

[colour86]

55 should be good for anything, your good to go

[SBE2]

40lbs and up, yer good to go.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

40 lbs is the legal weight...anything over that you can draw. hold, aim and shoot comfortably is the best weight...

55lbs will take down any critter in North America with a appopiate sharp broadhead, tuned bow and well placed shot...


I personally know of dozens of animals such as moose, elk, bear and deer taken with bows under 50 lbs

Neil

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

40 lbs is the legal weight...anything over that you can draw. hold, aim and shoot comfortably is the best weight...

55lbs will take down any critter in North America with a appopiate sharp broadhead, tuned bow and well placed shot...


I personally know of dozens of animals such as moose, elk, bear and deer taken with bows under 50 lbs

Neil

Ditto!

[Bulldog Hunter]

Thanks guys, appreciate the advise. Been told by a couple guys that 70lbs was the minimum to use for hunting. Have no problem pulling 70lb bow, but bought this one so the wife could learn to shoot also. Didn't really plan on hunting with it when I bought it, but things have changed and want to give it a try now.

Again, thanks.

[DukesArcher]

55lb no problems. The way a bow kills is much different for a gun. A sharp Broadhead and good aim is what's needed.

[Bolete]

My bow is set a 57lbs. I have shot complete pass throughs on deer and killed a moose with it as well.

[xring_assassin]

My wife has shot deer and elk dead (many a pass through) with a 27" draw 45 pound bow...they obviously didn't get the memo that you need high draw weight bows to die.

12 yr old shot two deer, both at under 20 yards with 40# last year from a diamond edge. Both the arrows were stuck in the ground.

Good luck!

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

We had a youngster, first bow... Mathews Genesis strictly entry level target bow..maxes out at 20lb 25-30lb souped up!

The year he became legal to hunt, unknown to anyone here, he got his hunting licence and went bow hunting...shot a big whitetail buck...

Story has so many wrong points...legal hunting bow is 40 lbs etc...we explain that to parents at purchace, but the youngster didnt know any better....but the point is a well placed arrow with a sharp broadhead is deadly!


Neil

[LA_bowhunter]

My son shot this deer with a 27# bow at 19 yards in Texas. Not a passthrough but broke the exit side leg. deer ran hard for about 60 yards until the lights went out. In Texas they have gotten rid of the 40# minimum and have been leaving it up to the discretion of the hunter to have a bow that generates sufficient energy (ft/lbs) to take down the game they are hunting. The recommendation is 40 Ft/lbs of KE for whitetail deer (perhaps that's where the 40# bow minimum comes from). Todays bows are much more efficient that bows even 10 years ago. Its really a combination of the bows efficiency and the weight of the arrow (assuming sharp broadhead and tuned bow as Neil pointed out) that will indicate the effectiveness of your setup. Anyway, 55# is definitely enough for anything in Alberta.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Gotta love Texas and their logical redneck laws...for real...

Neil

[LA_bowhunter]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Gotta love Texas and their logical redneck laws...for real...

Neil

LOL yep! Although I think the 40# bow minimum is an antiquated standard. A 40# recurve in 1980 would not have anywhere near the efficiency of a 30# compound today. The technological advancements in the gear has been exponential since that rule was created, the animals have stayed the same.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by LA_bowhunter

LOL yep! Although I think the 40# bow minimum is an antiquated standard. A 40# recurve in 1980 would not have anywhere near the efficiency of a 30# compound today. The technological advancements in the gear has been exponential since that rule was created, the animals have stayed the same.

Ditto...however I have never heard of a case where a F&W officer checked poundage on a bow out in the field...anyone???

Neil

[nekred]

on a compound.... junior bow just tell the officer to draw to 28" as the regulations state.... I guarantee if it is shorter drawlength tan 28 it will hit 40 lbs before it hits 28"

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by LA_bowhunter

LOL yep! Although I think the 40# bow minimum is an antiquated standard. A 40# recurve in 1980 would not have anywhere near the efficiency of a 30# compound today. The technological advancements in the gear has been exponential since that rule was created, the animals have stayed the same.

really confused with this post....

[LA_bowhunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

really confused with this post....

What part confuses you?

[mxz1997]

Originally Posted by nekred

on a compound.... junior bow just tell the officer to draw to 28" as the regulations state.... I guarantee if it is shorter drawlength tan 28 it will hit 40 lbs before it hits 28"

[Hat in the Cat]

Originally Posted by nekred

on a compound.... junior bow just tell the officer to draw to 28" as the regulations state.... I guarantee if it is shorter drawlength tan 28 it will hit 40 lbs before it hits 28"

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by LA_bowhunter

What part confuses you?

First, what do you mean by "efficiency"?
What does efficiency have to do with draw length/poundage regulations?

If you are meaning the development of higher poundage draw weights at shorter draw lengths, that will likely be dealt with for the 2015 season.

Regardless, this particular archery regulation is pointless in the field. There is no legal requirement to actually draw 28" to 40 lbs before releasing an arrow at wildlife.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

First, what do you mean by "efficiency"?
What does efficiency have to do with draw length/poundage regulations?

If you are meaning the development of higher poundage draw weights at shorter draw lengths, that will likely be dealt with for the 2015 season.

Regardless, this particular archery regulation is pointless in the field. There is no legal requirement to actually draw 28" to 40 lbs before releasing an arrow at wildlife.

NO ..but...An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.)

Neil

[LA_bowhunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

First, what do you mean by "efficiency"?
What does efficiency have to do with draw length/poundage regulations?

If you are meaning the development of higher poundage draw weights at shorter draw lengths, that will likely be dealt with for the 2015 season.

Regardless, this particular archery regulation is pointless in the field. There is no legal requirement to actually draw 28" to 40 lbs before releasing an arrow at wildlife.

By efficiency I am referring to the energy transferred to the arrow during the shot cycle. One of the most common ways to measure this to calculate the kinetic Energy and there are a number of websites that will help you with these calculations.

http://www.ultimatebowhuntingtv.com/...y-calculators/

Some bows are better than others at transferring the energy in the limbs to the arrow during the shot, that is why not all 60# bows do not have the same IBO rating. Many of the governing agencies around the world have a minimum KE for the game they are regulating. Cape Buffalo for example, have a minimum recommended KE of 66 ft/lbs to hunt one with a bow. If you understand and know your equipment it can be quite easy to use a setup that will get you the proper energy. For example my 60# Ross Crave DRT with 400 grain arrows at 268 fps produces about 63.5 ft/lbs of KE. My 60# Bowtech Destroyer shooting 445 gr CE piledrivers at 275 fps produces almost 74.5 ft/lbs of KE. In this case the Destroyer would be more efficient at passing the energy to the arrow and meet the minimums to hunt Cape Buffalo. Not all 60 # bows are created equal.

To make this even a little more variable, a persons drawlength will also affect the speed and energy produced by a particular bow. Basically the longer the drawlength, the faster the arrow will go. If I increased the drawlength on my destroyer I would get approximately another 10 fps faster and the KE calculator would take my bow to over 80 ft/lbs.

all I am saying is that there is more sophisticated ways to ensure that your archery setup will work for the game that you are hunting. The 40 lb minimum was created over 30 years ago for gear that is not as good as the gear we use today. I believe their are 40 lb bows out there that would not be sufficient to hunt game in alberta and there are 30 # bows that would do a great job.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Have to agree 100% with that...

Neil

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by LA_bowhunter

By efficiency I am referring to the energy transferred to the arrow during the shot cycle. One of the most common ways to measure this to calculate the kinetic Energy and there are a number of websites that will help you with these calculations.

http://www.ultimatebowhuntingtv.com/...y-calculators/

Some bows are better than others at transferring the energy in the limbs to the arrow during the shot, that is why not all 60# bows do not have the same IBO rating. Many of the governing agencies around the world have a minimum KE for the game they are regulating. Cape Buffalo for example, have a minimum recommended KE of 66 ft/lbs to hunt one with a bow. If you understand and know your equipment it can be quite easy to use a setup that will get you the proper energy. For example my 60# Ross Crave DRT with 400 grain arrows at 268 fps produces about 63.5 ft/lbs of KE. My 60# Bowtech Destroyer shooting 445 gr CE piledrivers at 275 fps produces almost 74.5 ft/lbs of KE. In this case the Destroyer would be more efficient at passing the energy to the arrow and meet the minimums to hunt Cape Buffalo. Not all 60 # bows are created equal.

To make this even a little more variable, a persons drawlength will also affect the speed and energy produced by a particular bow. Basically the longer the drawlength, the faster the arrow will go. If I increased the drawlength on my destroyer I would get approximately another 10 fps faster and the KE calculator would take my bow to over 80 ft/lbs.

all I am saying is that there is more sophisticated ways to ensure that your archery setup will work for the game that you are hunting. The 40 lb minimum was created over 30 years ago for gear that is not as good as the gear we use today. I believe their are 40 lb bows out there that would not be sufficient to hunt game in alberta and there are 30 # bows that would do a great job.

I accept what you are saying, however how would you apply Efficiency into the regulations?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

NO ..but...An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.)

Neil

Are you sure about the authorized arrow length requirement?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Are you sure about the authorized arrow length requirement?

Yup has always been ...still in 2014 Regulations...

We cut all youth hunting arrows at 24" ...unless over that draw of course..than longer according to lentgh for draw

Neil

[LA_bowhunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I accept what you are saying, however how would you apply Efficiency into the regulations?

I wouldn't use the word efficiency as I was using that to describe the ability of a bow to transfer the energy in the limbs to the arrow, and some bows are better at it than other bows. As for the regulations, but I would create a regulation around an energy calculation. Its quite easy to calculate the KE of a bow setup if you have the weight of the arrow and the speed it is travelling. As it was stated here earlier, archery minimums are basically unregulated as F&W do not check a persons bow anyway. The onus should be on the hunter to make sure their equipment and abilities are sufficient to hunt the game they are after.

Like I said earlier, many governing bodies use a bow setup of 40 ft/lbs of KE as the minimum for hunting deer. I speculate that the number was just transferred over to be a 40# bow minimum when the regulations were created. Its just not an accurate measurement for the ability of a bow setup to kill some game animals in Alberta.

Anyway, there isn't an easy answer here, I just think we can do better than the current regulation.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Yup has always been ...still in 2014 Regulations...

We cut all youth hunting arrows at 24" ...unless over that draw of course..than longer according to lentgh for draw

Neil

Do you mean the Hunting Synopsis, the "not a legal document" document?


I am not aware of any arrow length requirement in the Wildlife Act or Wildlife Regulations. This lack of a arrow length regulation will likely be dealt with for next year, 24" is on the table.


As I was alluding to, an archer "Could" use a 12" arrow with a 40lb@28" bow. Stupid, yes, but likely legal.

No worries here though, I trust hunters to choose and use their weapon of choice in an appropriate fashion.



From the Wildlife Act
" Items Prohibited for Hunting Big Game

6 Any arrow other than an arrow that has a tip that bears a head that

(a) is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object, and

(b) is either

(i) a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or

(ii) a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.


7 Any bow other than

(a) a cross-bow that requires 100 pounds or more of pull to draw the string or cable to its cocked position, or

(b) a bow that

(i) is held, drawn and released by muscular power, and

(ii) requires a pull of at least 40 pounds to draw an arrow 28 inches in length to its head."

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by Bulldog Hunter

Thanks guys, appreciate the advise. Been told by a couple guys that 70lbs was the minimum to use for hunting. Have no problem pulling 70lb bow, but bought this one so the wife could learn to shoot also. Didn't really plan on hunting with it when I bought it, but things have changed and want to give it a try now.

Again, thanks.

Sounds like the same morons who think you need a 300mag minimum to kill a deer, preferably their new 340 Weatherby!

40lbs is plenty, 55lbs is way more than enough.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Do you mean the Hunting Synopsis, the "not a legal document" document?


I am not aware of any arrow length requirement in the Wildlife Act or Wildlife Regulations. This lack of a arrow length regulation will likely be dealt with for next year, 24" is on the table.


As I was alluding to, an archer "Could" use a 12" arrow with a 40lb@28" bow. Stupid, yes, but likely legal.

No worries here though, I trust hunters to choose and use their weapon of choice in an appropriate fashion.



From the Wildlife Act
" Items Prohibited for Hunting Big Game

6 Any arrow other than an arrow that has a tip that bears a head that

(a) is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object, and

(b) is either

(i) a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or

(ii) a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.


7 Any bow other than

(a) a cross-bow that requires 100 pounds or more of pull to draw the string or cable to its cocked position, or

(b) a bow that

(i) is held, drawn and released by muscular power, and

(ii) requires a pull of at least 40 pounds to draw an arrow 28 inches in length to its head."

Im here to tell you...12" arrow Legal ...NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This below is from both the online and hardcopy regulations

2014 Alberta Regulations As mandated by the ALBERTA GOVENMENT

Therefore will be law in my eyes....any other official other than the Alberta Goverment will have to harsh any restrictions, fines, laws etc witrh them...


Under Big Game regulations /Sub/Bowhunting...
exact as it reads other than red highlight I put in...


BOWHUNTING

Note: The following applies to bowhunting other than with a cross-bow. Scroll down for information about hunting with cross-bows.

Except for the hunting of black bear, coyote, cougar or wolf under the circumstances as outlined under Access for Control of Livestock Predation, a Bowhunting Permit is required by anyone who hunts big game, game bird, wolf or coyote with a bow and arrow. Bowhunters with appropriate general or special licences may hunt during the general seasons, archery-only seasons and primitive weapon seasons. A Bowhunting Permit is required in combination with a big game licence. In some areas of the province, hunters require special licences to hunt certain species of big game – see season tables. A bowhunter who obtains an Antlered Moose Special Licence, Antlerless Moose Special Licence, Calf Moose Special Licence, Antlered Mule Deer Special Licence, Antlerless Mule Deer Special Licence, Antlered White-tailed Deer Special Licence, Antlerless White-tailed Deer Special Licence, Antlered Elk Special Licence, Antlerless Elk Special Licence or Landowner Special Licence may, if an early archery season is offered, hunt under the authority of that licence during the archery season but only in the WMU specified on the licence and only for the type and species of animal for which the licence was issued. Holders of a Landowner Special Licence are subject to the terms/conditions of their licence. Bowhunters are reminded that, in some situations, archery-only seasons for some species may be in progress at the same time as primitive weapon and rifle seasons for other species in the same WMU.

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.

Hunters are asked to remove their tree stands at the end of the hunting seasons unless permission has been granted by the landholder to do otherwise.


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JMHO
Neil