Over Trapping

[tchardy1972]

Is it possible to over harvest coyotes? One area that I snare in has been good for over 30 coyotes a year for the last two years now this year I'm at 4. So did the +or- 65 coyote harvest really hurt the numbers that bad or am I seeing the result of disease or something? What are your thoughts? Thanks.

[Marty S]

There's definitely competition out there. Likely it's because someone is on top of you and getting getting them that you aren't aware of.

The government says we can't impact the coyotes. Always believe the government.

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by Marty S

There's definitely competition out there. Likely it's because someone is on top of you and getting getting them that you aren't aware of.

The government says we can't impact the coyotes. Always believe the government.

Be tough to have competition in this spot. It's my family land and there should be no one around for a few miles in any direction. I'm assuming sarcasm in your last statement but not sure how to take it.

[KegRiver]

No.


You aren't even close to over trapping a Coyote population until there is only one left on the continent.

Coyotes reproduce similar to the way Quack Grass does. If you have one left, next year there will be hundreds.


My mom said this about getting rid of Quack Grass. Slightly altered it's the only way to get rid of Coyotes.

You have to dig up the roots, make sure you get every piece, no matter how small.
Then you put it all in a pile and you burn it.
Then you put the ashes in a jar and be darn careful where you put that jar.

We all know a Coyote doesn't have roots, but everything else mom said applies.

[KegRiver]

Seriously.

It is next to impossible to wipe out a Coyote population.

In the 1950s a Radies epedemic spread across Northern Alberta. The governmetn respnded by handing out Strycnine to anyone who would use it.

Up to then there had been huge numbers of Fox and Coyote, Wolves, Marten, Fisher, and Mink were plentiful.

When it was all over there were no Fox, it took them over twenty years to start to make a comeback. There were no Fisher or Marten either, they came back before the Fox but even then it took years.

A few wolves survived and the Mink were uneffected so far as I could tell.

Even though thousands of Coyotes were poisoned, it seemed to make no differance to the population. They were there through it all and just as pentiful after the last bait was gone then before it all started.

My guess is that your Coyotes have found a better food source away from where you are trapping.
A few will always remain. But many will move to take advantage of a new or better food source.

[rcmc]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

Is it possible to over harvest coyotes? One area that I snare in has been good for over 30 coyotes a year for the last two years now this year I'm at 4. So did the +or- 65 coyote harvest really hurt the numbers that bad or am I seeing the result of disease or something? What are your thoughts? Thanks.

You can absolutely over harvest in the open prairie where your snaring, Keg's area can't be compared to here. Keg have you ever trapped the prairie down here, (southern AB) if you had I honesty believe you would have different view.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I agree with Keg, actually his mother, she was even more wise than Keg. We have guys around Edmonton trapping in the Parkland who take some enormous coyote numbers and they have never been able to knock back the population.
I grew up in the strychnine days in the 50,s in Northern Alberta. It took about 20+ years for wolves and fox etc to recover. The coyotes came back within a few years.

[rcmc]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

I agree with Keg, actually his mother, she was even more wise than Keg. We have guys around Edmonton trapping in the Parkland who take some enormous coyote numbers and they have never been able to knock back the population.
I grew up in the strychnine days in the 50,s in Northern Alberta. It took about 20+ years for wolves and fox etc to recover. The coyotes came back within a few years.

TCHardy is in Southern AB, once again your comparing your experience it to the bush country, it's not the same. If you want too maintain your harvest you need to use some degression on harvest numbers.

[nube]

I have hit my areas hard for 3+ years now. I have numbers down now but I don't think it is because of me. I think numbers are low in a lot of parts of Alberta the last 2 years. My trapline this year seems to have way more than last up north so I think some areas the numbers fluctuate for one reason or another but I don't think it's from trapping

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by rcmc

TCHardy is in Southern AB, once again your comparing your experience it to the bush country, it's not the same. If you want too maintain your harvest you need to use some degression on harvest numbers.

Curious about this. I know that there's quite a difference between bush yotes and farmland yotes but how different are prairie yotes to farmland ones. Do prairie coyotes establish and defend their territory like farmland ones or do they tend to be more nomadic?

Thirty coyotes here isn't even a drop in the bucket and transient coyotes would move into that undefended territory very quickly to establish it as their own. I have read that by wiping out all of the locals you can actually have an increase in the coyote population in that area the next year with transient coyotes trying to establish the territory as their own.

If an area is undefended and there is bait there I don't understand why other coyotes wouldn't come into it.

[rcmc]

I believe for one thing that there are more coyotes per sq. kilometre in the northern area than then the southern areas mainly because we don't have the habitat that the central and northern areas do. When fur prices are high the pressure on coyotes becomes intense here, the coyotes you normally rely on for recruitment to fill the void are already hanging in someone's fur shed. You wouldn't believe how many people (colonies) are after coyotes these days here from truck hunters to callers to trappers, and a certain point the population doesn't maintain itself. I have hunted and trapped for nearly fifty years here in the south, we can impact the population down here. In late seventies there was a fur price boom, the county I live in actually closed the coyote season for hunting except with written permission because of low coyotes numbers.

[HunterDave]

Aren't there any areas on private land that would act as some sort of sanctuary or is every piece of land pretty much fair game? Last year with the El Nino I noticed that the coyotes were reluctant to move out of their territory into a new undefended one but I just figured that there was plenty of food where they were and there was no reason to. When a baitsite stopped producing it never really started producing again. This year it's back to normal. I took out 15 to 20 coyotes off my first baitsite before it went cold a couple of weeks ago. I stopped baiting it but there were plenty of bones and rib cages left there. Yesterday I checked and it looked like an entire pack had visited with bones scattered everywhere in the bush.

[rcmc]

There isn't very many places here that can't be trapped or hunted when it comes to coyotes. For the most we maintain heathy coyote numbers, but there is a tipping point.

As to what goes on in other areas, I have no idea whether you can over harvest or not.

[Ranch11]

Numbers are definitely down in our area. I call intensively, and trap a bit. I averaged 40 a year til last yr, my number was 16 total. This yr, hunting from October 1st, my number is 5. Lots of guys trapping. The md puts on 2-3 resident trapping courses every yr. Our one lease has 3 trappers on it now, on 10 quarters of land. I don't know how they don't trip on each others snares. New trapper moved into my area, 2 yrs ago, and 2 more moved in this fall. I haven't seen a coyote in almost 3 weeks, yet alone called one in.
I'm not against trapping or hunting coyotes, and truly believe they'll come back, but I know when to hang up the snares in the shed if I knew there was 3 other guys out. Waste of my time.

[H380]

I also snare the Prairie coyotes and tho my season started out slow I'm slightly above last year's pace now. I think Marty's comment about competition is probably the most accurate .Just take a look at all the threads asking for info on calling or hunting coyotes , seemed like one a day after big game season closed . I also have exclusive permission on the property where my best bait is located but truck tracks the last 2 times near my spot tells me I'm not the only one after these particular coyotes. I've taken 26 from this spot so far this bait this year , 23 last year and I'll be hitting it for another couple weeks when I quit. I doubt the numbers here in the Prairie equal bush dogs but I don't think u can manage them for sustainably. Like passing a buck during deer season in hopes he will be bigger next year . The next guy that sees him may very well not have the same thoughts.. results ? There is no next year .


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[MugEye]

Numbers are down for me in the north. I trap my few quarters of farmland . I got 5 fox and 4 yotes on dirt holes in October. And nothing since then . I set up a big bait site in late November and it was eaten by birds . No tracks for a mile . I've seen one track at the far end of my property in 5 weeks . Looks like my hard work is paying off .

[KegRiver]

We never have a lot of Coyote around here.
There's more in the more developed areas but still nothing to what I used to see when I lived in Wetaskiwin.

I haven't been out much this winter, but when I was out hunting there did seem to be fewer tracks then in previous years.

There never is a lot in Bush country. And the fur is darker and course compared to the southern Coyotes I've handled.

I know that Coyote depend on mice a lot and this bush country just doesn't have the numbers of mice plus there would be a lot more competition for these mice then out in open country.

We had several dry years in a row and maybe that's why the numbers are down here, and everywhere.

Dryer years produce less seed, every farmer knows that. Mice are seed eaters. that's one of the reasons there are less in this bush country.

Coyote will prey on Rabbits, but they are not good at it. Besides, the rabbit population is down too.
At least here they are down, up by Fort Res they must be near plaque proportions.

We were up there this summer and the last hour of driving to the fishing hole we must have seen 100 rabbits per mile of road.

Down here I might see one for every 1,000 miles driven.

Should be tons of Fox up there next year.

[Marty S]

If it was from overtrapping, then due to the fact that coyotes travel so much, nobody would be catching much, but I'm catching well daily... awesome coyote moving weather we are having. What a delightful winter so far!

Our harvest numbers in the province are impressive and seem to be maintaining nicely. A guy that knows his business could be hitting them from even two to three miles away and impacting your catch, unless you are on one of those massive family ranches that encompass a couple townships of land. You might just have the AC virus in your locality.

[rcmc]

I also believe that desease has a much greater impact on coyote population than trapping ever will. When trapping pressure is high here and were keeping numbers at a sustainable number there are practically no desease issues at all.

With time you will develope a feel for where your local population is at and you will know when it's time to close one set down move your attention to a another site, with a goal in mind in maintaining a constant catch over time.

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by Marty S

If it was from overtrapping, then due to the fact that coyotes travel so much, nobody would be catching much, but I'm catching well daily... awesome coyote moving weather we are having. What a delightful winter so far!

Our harvest numbers in the province are impressive and seem to be maintaining nicely. A guy that knows his business could be hitting them from even two to three miles away and impacting your catch, unless you are on one of those massive family ranches that encompass a couple townships of land. You might just have the AC virus in your locality.

The only way that competition is a problem in this particular spot is if someone is doing something completely illegal or without any kind of permission. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or couldn't happen but it is unlikely.

[H380]

I'm kinda getting a laugh out of those whole thread , not the fact that numbers are low in certain spots but the idea that we need to possibly shut down our efforts to harvest them because numbers could possibly be "too low ".Not poking fun at anyone but that has got to be a first .

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[HunterDave]

I find the observations on this thread pretty interesting. If I remember correctly an adult male's territory can range up to 40 kms, adult females somewhat less. Transient pups wander pretty far as well in search of a territory of their own. I've read that coyotes will travel 30 kms in a single night. I think that it would be very hard to determine anything about the coyote population based on only a few quarters of land but that's just my opinion.

Hunting and trapping pressure would have to be extreme and constant year after year to have a dramatic effect IMO, but who knows? If the habitat supports coyotes, I can't imagine coyotes ever being totally eradicated from there. I tend to lean more towards what Marty stated that Mother Nature or someone nearby putting out more attractive bait to lure them there instead to yours.

Last year we experienced a season with hardly any pups in this area and they accounted for only about 5% of my catch. Of those, about 50% were diseased and had to be tossed. This year things are better than normal with an abundance of pups. I haven't kept count but I would guess that about 50% (maybe more) of this year's catch have been healthy, high grade pups. If there is a dramatic reduction in the coyote population in a certain area my money in a bet would be on disease being the culprit as opposed to over harvest. What the hell is AC virus anyway......Air conditioning?

[MugEye]

Originally Posted by MugEye

Numbers are down for me in the north. I trap my few quarters of farmland . I got 5 fox and 4 yotes on dirt holes in October. And nothing since then . I set up a big bait site in late November and it was eaten by birds . No tracks for a mile . I've seen one track at the far end of my property in 5 weeks . Looks like my hard work is paying off .

What I'm trying to say is some places have way more coyotes then others . Where I'm at I normally catch 8-12 and shot about 4 in the summer . My neighbours trap and hunt and my neighbours neighbours hunt and trap and there numbers are similar to mine . So that's norm here . I went Muley hunting by vermillion and couldn't believe the coyotes there . Shot 3 one night with bow . And there were more howling . At home I hardly ever here them . So yes some places have more yotes with maybe less pressure.

[H380]

Originally Posted by MugEye

What I'm trying to say is some places have way more coyotes then others . Where I'm at I normally catch 8-12 and shot about 4 in the summer . My neighbours trap and hunt and my neighbours neighbours hunt and trap and there numbers are similar to mine . So that's norm here . I went Muley hunting by vermillion and couldn't believe the coyotes there . Shot 3 one night with bow . And there were more howling . At home I hardly ever here them . So yes some places have more yotes with maybe less pressure.

I hunt the bowzone at Okotoks evry year , have for the past 34 years and this year is lowest numbers I have seen or heard there . Are they gone ? Hardly , maybe just a slight dip in population . Since I started snaring them seriously a couple years ago I havent killed a coyote after Mar1 or before end of October , that is the way I regulate my harvest .

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by rcmc

I also believe that desease has a much greater impact on coyote population than trapping ever will. When trapping pressure is high here and were keeping numbers at a sustainable number there are practically no desease issues at all.

There is no doubt in my mind that at least with Coyote and Beaver disease has way more potentual to wipe out or devastate a population then does any effort by man.

I also agree with those who say that Coyote populations can depend a lot on local conditions.
But all animals I've been around will move and sometimes move incredible distances seeking better conditions or better opportunities.

I read a paper on a study done on Lynx in the Yukon back in the 1980s. One of their collared Lynx wound up in a trappers set east of Fort McMurray.

I have no doubt a Coyote could move twice that distance in half the time and I would think they would be ten times as likely to do so.

I can see a local population being low, I just can't see it staying that way for any length of time for any reason other then that it simply isn't good Coyote territory.

If you have lots of mixed farms, lots of terrain features and vegetation types, I'd bet that you will have lots of Coyote no matter what you do.
Drought and disease not-with-standing.

[ditch donkey]

I don't think there is a dip in the population. Not a noticeable one anyway. I think there are so many mouse filled swaths in the fields that the coyotes aren't travelling like they have in the past. They can lay low in the bush near the fields and do some easy hunting.

My thoughts anyhows.

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

The only way that competition is a problem in this particular spot is if someone is doing something completely illegal or without any kind of permission. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or couldn't happen but it is unlikely.

Well then, from the info you have given, either you have overharvested your coyotes and for some reason they aren't migrating back in or else your local population has the AC virus. It's a very localized virus and really annihilates the coyotes. Good thing it doesn't hit the coyotes widespread like Parvo.

[H380]

Originally Posted by Marty S

Well then, from the info you have given, either you have overharvested your coyotes and for some reason they aren't migrating back in or else your local population has the AC virus. It's a very localized virus and really annihilates the coyotes. Good thing it doesn't hit the coyotes widespread like Parvo.

You seem to be a real carrier for this bug Marty ..

[Thunder Elk Hunter]

Our numbers are about half of last year, that being said there is still lots of tracks. They are not going into our bait sites like normal, I think it has to do with the crop left out this year and the number of mice. The only time we get a 5 to 10 catch day is when it is below -25C.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

I don't think there is a dip in the population. Not a noticeable one anyway. I think there are so many mouse filled swaths in the fields that the coyotes aren't travelling like they have in the past. They can lay low in the bush near the fields and do some easy hunting.

My thoughts anyhows.

That makes a lot of sense to me.