Go Back   Alberta Outdoors Forum > Main Category > Guns & Ammo Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-01-2022, 06:47 PM
Sashi's Avatar
Sashi Sashi is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,174
Default stamp Identification

I require help with this stamp identification.



This is an identifying mark on the barrel of a Stiga rifle.
A swedish mauser 96 action, with a Shultz and Larsen replacement barrel. This is the only mark which might signify Shultz and Larsen, Can anyone help with identifying this stamp.
__________________
"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."--- George Orwell
There is no way to make something "Idiot Proof" because Idiots are so resourceful.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-02-2022, 12:14 AM
KegRiver's Avatar
KegRiver KegRiver is offline
Gone Hunting
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashi View Post
I require help with this stamp identification.



This is an identifying mark on the barrel of a Stiga rifle.
A swedish mauser 96 action, with a Shultz and Larsen replacement barrel. This is the only mark which might signify Shultz and Larsen, Can anyone help with identifying this stamp.
They are called proof marks.

All I can tell you is it appears to be a Belgian proof mark judging by the crown.
British proof mark crowns were much more intricate in design.

Other then that I can't help you.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-02-2022, 11:04 AM
catnthehat's Avatar
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 39,013
Default

I think your best bet would be to email Anthony at Tradexcanada in Hawksbuury Ontario, he can tell you positively if it is a makers mark, inspector's mark or a Proof mark.
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-02-2022, 01:33 PM
David Henry David Henry is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 823
Default

Checking my reference books it appears to be very similar if not identical to the Husqvarna Factory mark stamped on their rifles.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-02-2022, 02:21 PM
raised by wolves raised by wolves is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,295
Default

I can't post pics but my Husqvarna CG3000 has a similar mark along with the Nitro Tested stamp. Mine does not have the gold paint or inlay into the stamp.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-02-2022, 02:31 PM
urban rednek's Avatar
urban rednek urban rednek is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,718
Default

That crown stamp definitely resembles the official Swedish stamp, 5 lines with a flat bottom and cross on top. Husqvarna used the same crown, but tilted it to the right so the cross points to 2 o'clock.

Have a look at this .pdf file for more information on the Swedish Mauser. Information on markings starts on page 140 of the .pdf file.
https://www.collezionareexordinanza....ser-rifles.pdf
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” - Thomas Sowell

“We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.”- Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-02-2022, 02:37 PM
brewster29 brewster29 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: East Kootenays, BC
Posts: 1,207
Default

I checked my S&L model 60 and don’t see any marks like that.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-02-2022, 03:33 PM
David Henry David Henry is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 823
Default

Schultz and Larsen would be run through the Danish proof house where as the Husqvarna would be taken care of in Sweden. D.H.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-02-2022, 06:48 PM
Sashi's Avatar
Sashi Sashi is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,174
Default

Thankyou everyone for you input, for now I will say the mark belongs to the inspector who proofed the barrel. But I will still email Anthony to confirm this.
__________________
"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."--- George Orwell
There is no way to make something "Idiot Proof" because Idiots are so resourceful.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-29-2022, 09:34 PM
Sashi's Avatar
Sashi Sashi is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,174
Default Information copied from CGN

Stiga Proof Testing

Is a post that I created about a 30-06 STIGA about that very thing - the Baribal guy responded about the significance of the Danish proof stampings - that rifle had to pass 125% overload without permanent measurable deformation - is required in most European countries, but not in Canada or USA - is about what "proofing" means - an engineering concept - is not rated for that level for lifetime - but took that level once or twice, without deformation, which "proves" that the assembly - bolt, receiver and barrel - is good for "normal" rated pressure loads, forever.

So, there is a rated pressure level that the M96 had to pass for the 6.5x55 original cartridge - then companies like STIGA re-chambered them to other cartridges - STIGA did do the re-proofing tests, and the various stampings show that - other makers, especially from USA, did not. It was of concern to me, because is obvious that there was material removed behind the lower (bottom) bolt locking lug support area in order for the longer 30-06 cartridge to fit. Baribal's reply put my "what if" concerns completely to rest.
Stiga rifles and European Nito Proof Testing
I own two Swede 96 in 6.5x55, one Husqvarna 648 in 8x57 and now a "new to me" Stiga in 30-06 - all, of course, built on the Swede M96/M38 action. The Stiga appears to be built on a surplus Swede 96 made between 1918 and 1923 (the receiver stampings are ground off, but the serial number starts with H.K., which would be Inspector Helge Koltoff - I stand to be corrected on the dates). I have found lots of opinion expressed on Internet regarding the conversion of Swede actions to longer cartridges, but not much regarding reference material to support those opinions.
Two things I notice about the Stiga - the cartridge feeding ramp has been shortened about 1/4" to accommodate the extension to the front of the magazine (thereby reducing the depth of the material supporting the lower locking lug), and there is a "proof" mark on the barrel. The proof mark is a "crown over SL" (the SL is in cursive font) Beside this mark is "Nitro Test". It appears "from the Internet" that the Stiga barrels were made by Schultz and Larsen in Denmark for Stiga, and I presume this is their proof mark.



So, I am curious about how proof testing is done. It would seem to me that a proof test would minimally require a chambered barrel, installed and headspaced in a receiver, with a proof cartridge seated by the bolt. I can not see how a barrel alone could be validly "proof tested". I also doubt that a production run of barrels could be "proofed" on a universal receiver, since each barrel would have to be chambered and therefore individually head spaced to such a universal receiver. Does anyone know if the proof testing that is marked on the rifle barrel is actually a proof test of that barrel only, or if it is a proof test of the barrel, chamber, receiver and bolt assembly?
It's a proof of the assembly. Just keep in mind that Sweden never joined CIP so they have their own laws / rules as for firearms making, but it usually mimmics the CIP ones.
The rifles usually are tested with proof loads of 1.25 X the MAP of the said caliber.
Also, for these rifles, they used a very long throat which considerably lowers the peak pressure when fired. And yes, some of the Stiga barrels came from S&L.
Forget about any previou inspector marks as the action was taken from a military rifle which was used before de-militarizing.
Thank you for the information, Baribal! Since the assembly is proofed together, that should alleviate any concerns about the "safety" of these conversions for MAP pressure level loads.

You were certainly correct about the throating! Using both Winchester bulk 180 grain spitzers and Speer 165 grain spitzers seated backwards, it appears that the throat of this one is in the order of 2.700" from the bolt face (headspace checks perfectly with Forster SAAMI gauges) - so, about .200" from max case length mouth to start of rifling.

Regarding the Inspector mark - since the markings on top of receiver are removed, I was using the Inspector mark to guesstimate the actual original date of manufacture of the receiver itself, when it was made for the Swede military.
A lot, if not most of these "sporters" were made from M/94 receivers / bolts as a large quatity became available by mid '50 'til the '70s.






As for action strenght goes, if something as to happen, it will start by headpsace growing, a sing of set-back and a "built in" safety Mauser designed. With the loooong throat, there should be no problem regarding case head separation, so you're good to go.
Baribal ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baribal


You are "bang on" regarding the M94 business. Thank you! I found in the book "Crown Jewels" that H.K. was Inspector at Carl Gustav from 1912 to 1923, and this receiver's serial number 784XX matches up with M94 serials for 1916; else, that number belongs in 1900 production of M96's with different Inspector G.F. So it is indeed an M94, complete with typical M94 bent bolt (not a sportered type bend).

According to that book, "When horses were phased out in the 1950's, so were the carbines in Swedish service" (p. 57)

You, sir, are a bounty of information of things Mauser and Swedish!
__________________
"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."--- George Orwell
There is no way to make something "Idiot Proof" because Idiots are so resourceful.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-30-2022, 08:10 AM
saskbooknut saskbooknut is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 1,610
Default

I don't believe that anybody has ever shown Swedish Mauser M94/M96 rifle actions to be deficient in any way,
"for their designed purpose". They were made from quality steel to a very high standard of fit and finish.
I don't recall any reports of Husqvarna or Stiga sporting rifle failure with the appropriate CIP sporting cartridges.
We are not talking about negligent failure like a plugged bore.
So, I believe that discussion of the strength of a Stiga sporting rifle is In the realm of theoretical speculation.
Is a Stiga rifle suitable for handloading to the highest pressure possible ? Not in my world!
They have served for generations however, with appropriate ammo.
The Mauser 98 action has better design features to control gas escape from cartridge case failure. That being said, bad things happen when a careless experiment goes astray, even with a M 98.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.