Homemade Amphibious side by side (aatv)

Positrac · #1 07-20-2018, 11:21 AM

Something a bit different than your average thread on here I thought I’d share and update as I go along an amphibious all-terrain vehicle build I’ve been planning for the last few years. Planning is probably an understatement. I’ve spent hundreds of hours obsessively watching YouTube videos of those clever Russians and their big-tyred or tracked buggies going over all sorts of terrain and through swamps that would make your average Argo cringe. My wife thinks I have a real issue. Truth be told I probably have several issues, I’m just pretty good a hiding most of them from her better than I have this one...

So, why an aatv? The need came about from living in Fort McMurray. There’s a million miles of cut lines up here but very little in the way of roads. You can’t go more than a mile in any direction without hitting a Muskeg hole or Beaver pond. I’ve had a couple Argos over the years and while they can get you off the beaten path they are not the most comfortable mode of travel. Add to that fact they still get stuck pretty easy even with tracks and they are very high maintenance. I also went the jet boat way for the last 5 years and while I did enjoy getting on the water it didn’t get you away from people. Lots of disposable income up here and every second house seems to have a jet boat in the driveway. So, I needed something different that not everyone had where I could get out where the critters roam free with not much worry from man.

I originally thought of building a buggy similar to the skid steer Sherp but with slightly less tall tires. Less tall being 52” tall as opposed to the 63” tall tires on the Sherp. Then I had the pleasure of driving one. While they are a very capable machine the herky-jerky skid steering brought back unfavourable memories of all the hours I’ve spent in an Argo. Plus, the drivetrain is pretty complicated and once things start to get a few hours on them I can see the maintenance being very similar to an Argo but with the added bonus of being super expensive. I suppose though, if you can afford the $140,000 price tag of a Sherp the maintenance costs probably don’t matter much to you...

So, my plan is to build a conventional sxs style buggy with a front steering axle. It will be a complete custom with a front Dana60 Kingpin steer axle and another full floater D60 out back. 4:88 gears with Detroit lockers in both axles. Full hydro-steering. Mid mounted 4-cyl Ecotec with an automatic transaxle with a welded center differential turned 90 degrees from the way it sits stock in the 130,000 kilometer Cavalier it’s coming out of. Front driveshaft going to a Samurai divorced transfer case although I don’t think I’ll need the low gear all that often with the transaxle having a low first gear. No brakes on the axles but I’ll have one on each side of the transfer case up high and out of the slop. Steel square tube frame and all aluminum body. No suspension since the tires will soak up the bumps and I’m hoping to keep it under 2,500lbs all done so that it floats high in the water.

Below are the tires with 21” double beadlock wheels leaning up against my Powerwagon on 35’s. With 9 psi in them they measure out at 52” dia x 27” wide. They are rated for 1-11 psi max. While not being as tall as the ones on the Sherp they are actually 3 inches wider so they provide a huge footprint when aired down. I had them imported from Russia through Stone Tusk Off Road in Thorsby after being put on to Stone Tusk by a couple members on here in another thread I started when I was originally looking for tires.

Since buying the tires a couple months ago I’ve just been digging up parts and equipment for the build. I bought a 2003 Cavalier with low kilometers. It has the 2.2L Ecotec motor with auto transaxle. I also managed to find a couple Dana 60’s with the front Kingpin model being from an ‘89 Ford 1-ton and the rear from a ‘79 3/4 ton. Different widths but that will be rectified since I’m going to narrow the front by 12 inches and then make the rear to match. On top of that I’ve bought grinders, a cut-off saw, a porta-band saw, a new to me Millermatic 211 mig welder with spool gun, new Optel auto-darkening helmet, engine lift, etc, etc, etc...

The plan is to try and have it done by next summer so that the bugs will be worked out by hunting season. I purposely didn’t pull an early season moose draw this year so that I’ll have a tag for next year when the buggy is done. Like I mentioned above, I’ll update the thread as work is done. I’ve been a member on 4x4 Wire and Pirate 4x4 for years and these build threads have always been my favorite. Since I spend most my time on here these days I thought I’d document the build on here instead of a more conventional 4x4 site since I’m sure there will be a few of you that find it interesting.

Hope you all enjoy,

Positrac

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MugEye · #2 07-20-2018, 11:41 AM

Very cool keep us updated

Big Grey Wolf · #3 07-20-2018, 01:31 PM

Posi, sounds like a interesting project. I lived in Ft Mac for a few years and agree special designed ATV needed for all the swamp, especially east towards Namur lake area.

Trochu · #4 07-20-2018, 01:42 PM

I'm pretty sure you should just cut the fenders on your truck, use an extender, and put them on the 1500.

Sooner · #5 07-20-2018, 02:54 PM

Cool, I seen the earlier post where you showed this pic. I remember hunting Fox Creek in the 80's with the dads, I was 13 ish. Where all the 4x4's stopped on this old logging road and basically had to wait for freeze up to cross this spot, this lifted, monster tire homemade jeep thing just drove up and rolled through the worst swampy muskeg beaver dam crossing without breaking a sweat. We all knew he had prime big bull areas all to themselves. This was before trikes.

Sounds like your making a sherpa type craft. I look forward to this thread.

NCC · #6 07-20-2018, 03:30 PM

Great thread and interesting project. How much does each wheel weigh? I think you will struggle to stay under 2500 lbs.

Positrac · #7 07-20-2018, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCC

Great thread and interesting project. How much does each wheel weigh? I think you will struggle to stay under 2500 lbs.

134lb per tire, 60lb per wheel, wheel lock rings (x2) are 15lbs per wheel and hardware is 1lb. For a grand total of 210 per corner all done.

So yes, 2,500lbs dry weight will be tough when you think I’m at 840lbs just in tires/wheels. One of the engineers that I work with calculated all 4 tires would float 6,500lbs fully submerged at 9psi. He tried to explain how he got to that answer but my head started to hurt and then I nodded off...

So floating won’t be a problem but the lighter I can keep it the better it will go in the slop.

Today it was a little axle prep. I stripped down the front Dana 60 a few weeks back. Today I cut the drivers side knuckle off and then shortened the long side by 14 inches. That should give me an overall width of 96” from outside of one tire to the outside of the other. If I had kept the front axle full width at 69 1/4 inches it would have made for a really wide buggy and it would have required a permit to tow it down the highway.

Next I prepped the tube for when the inner knuckle gets put back on. As for the knuckle, I ground the tube weld off then pressed out the old section of tube. A little buff in the bore and it’s ready to go back on. Sounds easy when you say it fast but in all it was a good day’s work in the garage...

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Wrong way · #8 07-20-2018, 11:12 PM

I’m doing the same thing
Into my second season now, hope to be completed by September

It has been a lot more work then anticipated

Im utilizing a 1985 Suzuki samurai body/frame with Toyota running gear
1.6l
571 gears/ transfer case reduction / spool/ lockers
Etc etc
Same 52” tires from Stone Tusk
Won’t be fast but it will float

Good luck with your build
I will be watching the progress

EZM · #9 07-20-2018, 11:54 PM

cool thread - keep it going - interesting stuff.

Positrac · #10 07-21-2018, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrong way

I’m doing the same thing
Into my second season now, hope to be completed by September

It has been a lot more work then anticipated

Im utilizing a 1985 Suzuki samurai body/frame with Toyota running gear
1.6l
571 gears/ transfer case reduction / spool/ lockers
Etc etc
Same 52” tires from Stone Tusk
Won’t be fast but it will float

Good luck with your buildg
I will be watching the progress

Nice of you to chime in Wrong Way. Brent said he sold the tires/wheels off his rock buggy so I wondered who got them.

I thought about building a Aquala Industries aluminum Samurai for a bit but in the end I decided to just build a one-off.

Cheers and good luck with the build.

TreeGuy · #11 07-21-2018, 01:29 AM

Dang! This right here has the potential of being one of those very few legendary AO threads...for a GOOD reason!

Tree

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Reeves1 · #12 07-21-2018, 06:20 AM

Quote:

My wife thinks I have a real issue. Truth be told I probably have several issues, I’m just pretty good a hiding most of them from her better than I have this one...

You too , eh ! LOL

Cool build & I'll be watching

1899b · #13 07-21-2018, 09:00 AM

Cool thread. I know the muskeg well up there. Spent 36 years up there and for a few seasons we got away from the old atc trikes as Dad bought an Argo. It’s soft country up there. When I left and moved to Edson in 2003 I was elated how I could drive my Jeep down most cutlines and powerlines unlike the McMurray country I grew up in. Good luck with your build...

Wrong way · #14 07-21-2018, 09:43 AM

Yes that’s me
I have Brent’s original set of tires.

We had planned to go skeggin together
So far I’m a year late
Lol

One day it will happen
hopefully we can all get out when your build is complete.

The body on mine was a rusted out mess, it has swallowed a lot of my time patching.
Would have been further along with a scratch build.

Thinking on purchasing a tubing bender to build an exo cage for it but they sure are pricey. Any suggestions?

Positrac · #15 07-21-2018, 04:37 PM

I’m not sure about the tubing bender Wrong Way. I thought about one of those cheap benders based on a bottle jack and some dies, but I’ve heard they crush the tube a bit so that wouldn’t look all that great. For 300 bucks or so they may be worth a try though.

Some torrential rain here today with lightning and thunder like I haven’t seen/heard in a while. I did manage to heat the inner C up and install it on the front D60. Even managed to get it in the same plane as the drivers side inner C. The original fit was .0025 interference. After cleaning the tube up and bore of the inner C I’m about a thou less. Plenty as I’m planning on welding both sides of the C’s.

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Positrac · #16 07-24-2018, 11:00 AM

Tube cutting time on the rear Dana 60. I put the front 60 all back together with the old bearings so that I could get an accurate wheel mounting surface to WMS measurement. It came out at 54 3/4” on the nose, 14 1/2” less than the stock 69 1/4”. Narrower than the smallest Toyota mini truck axle ever made but there will be 20 inches of tire out each side with the wheel backspacing added in so in the end it will still be a wide rig.

The diff in the rear went back in and the hubs got mounted on the new spindles. After a bunch of measuring and head scratching I had the tube lengths figured out so that I’d end up with the same WMS to WMS as the front 60. I had the spindles made with a shoulder so that they couldn’t be slid in too far. I also had a couple clamps made to help in cutting the tubes straight. The portaband did a nice job of cutting the axles but a cut-off disk in a grinder would have worked too.

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Positrac · #17 07-24-2018, 09:50 PM

Still some tube clean-up and the front inner C and both rear spindles need to be welded, but with a .0025 interference on the front and .004 on both sides of the rear they are together and both have a wheel mounting surface to WMS of 54 3/4 inches. Both rear shafts actually came out at the exact same measurement, kind of like it was planned that way...

Tomorrow is parts ordering day. New front inner shafts and both the flanged rears from Dutchman out of the US. At around 40% stronger over the OEM shafts they should provide plenty of beef for a light weight buggy wallowing around in the water...

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burbotman · #18 07-24-2018, 10:20 PM

Awesome build and thread, like many others I will be following this. Thanks for sharing

shr970 · #19 07-25-2018, 12:38 AM

What a great thread you have a new follower

ChickakooKookoo · #20 08-02-2018, 01:19 PM

https://youtu.be/RNtZb4vWNLA

Someone entered a sherp into a bounty hole competition and just destroyed everyone, pretty cool to watch how these things just float through that kind of mud hole. Thought the op might like to see.

Skip to around the 7:40 mark to see the sherp.

Positrac · #21 08-02-2018, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo

https://youtu.be/RNtZb4vWNLA

Someone entered a sherp into a bounty hole competition and just destroyed everyone, pretty cool to watch how these things just float through that kind of mud hole. Thought the op might like to see.

Skip to around the 7:40 mark to see the sherp.

Thanks for the vid Chickakoo. That’s Ostacruiser from Youtube fame in the video. He bought the Sherp close to a year ago and has been pounding out the vids ever since. He does a really good job of filming all his adventures. And you’re right, he owned that mud hole.

I’ve been out in a Sherp myself and while they are very capable their drivetrain is anything but simple and parts are super expensive. Get 300 hours on them and I’d bet dollars to donuts they will keep you broke keeping up on maintenance and repairs. Just think very expensive Argo...

But, they are cool and like I’ve said before if you can afford the $140,000 price tag all done up you probably don’t need to worry about maintenance costs... Alas, they are way outside my budget.

I’m not claiming my buggy will be as capable as a Sherp, because it won’t be, but I’ll build it for not much more than the price of a good SXS and it will handle going most the places I need to up here. Plus, parts will be simple and available at any auto parts store.

I picked up the rectangular 3”x1 1/2” - 3/16” wall tubing for the frame today. Unfortunately I’m doing the timing belt/water pump and brakes in my wife’s Pilot over the next few days so progress on the buggy will be slow these days off. I did hear though that my custom length Dutchman axle shafts were being shipped today so that’s exciting.

Grump · #22 08-07-2018, 11:34 AM

sub'd!

buckbrush · #23 08-07-2018, 08:39 PM

Good thread but....If you could please put in a few longer days/nights to increase production and lower the suspense that would be great. Pretty sure most of the views are just a few of us who keep checking back for more updates.
I know, quality work takes time and time can be hard to find.

Great work! keep the thread going.

Positrac · #24 08-07-2018, 10:03 PM

Sorry to disappoint the half dozen of you guys following the build...lol.

Life gets in the way of buggy building for sure and the next month will be slow with work and a family vacation thrown in.

I did find a bit of time these days off to work on the frame design but not a lot to show there...

Tfng · #25 08-07-2018, 11:10 PM

I’m sure there’s more than a half dozen guys watching Positrac. I’m quite envious of your project and am following along for sure. There’ll be a lot of labour but the end result should be very worth it!

buckbrush · #26 08-08-2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Positrac

Sorry to disappoint the half dozen of you guys following the build...lol.

Life gets in the way of buggy building for sure and the next month will be slow with work and a family vacation thrown in.

I did find a bit of time these days off to work on the frame design but not a lot to show there...

Was just giving you are hard time. I can’t say much since I’ve been 2 months just stripping the interior on my car and I’m half done.

Looking forward to more posts down the road.

Albertadiver · #27 08-08-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckbrush

Good thread but....If you could please put in a few longer days/nights to increase production and lower the suspense that would be great. Pretty sure most of the views are just a few of us who keep checking back for more updates.
I know, quality work takes time and time can be hard to find.

Great work! keep the thread going.

Agreed!

And just have to say that Positrac's sig line did make me laugh.

Red Bullets · #28 08-08-2018, 01:50 PM

Interesting build. Hope it all works with no bugs.

I am not being negative but merely wondering... I believe there is a law in Alberta where your tires cannot extend out further than 4 inches past the fender well to be street legal. Any truth to this? How far out will your wheels go beyond the fender?

Positrac · #29 08-08-2018, 02:53 PM

I have no idea Red Bullets on the legal requirements when it comes to tires/fenders for driving on the street. I only leaned the tires up against my truck to show how big they are compared to a 3/4 ton Powerwagon on 35’s. This buggy is strictly for off-road use only and the tires are not street legal.

I did however narrow the Dana 60’s so that the overall width was legal for towing down the highway without a permit. If I remember right the maximum width without a permit is 8’6” and the buggy will be sitting just under 8’ in width at the widest (tires) point.

nast70 · #30 08-08-2018, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Positrac

I have no idea Red Bullets on the legal requirements when it comes to tires/fenders for driving on the street. I only leaned the tires up against my truck to show how big they are compared to a 3/4 ton Powerwagon on 35’s. This buggy is strictly for off-road use only and the tires are not street legal.

I did however narrow the Dana 60’s so that the overall width was legal for towing down the highway without a permit. If I remember right the maximum width without a permit is 8’6” and the buggy will be sitting just under 8’ in width at the widest (tires) point.

That's probably just one of many details at the end of the project you need to plan for at the beginning! Good luck with the rest of the build!!