Vehicle Firearm Storage

[countryboy1049]

Hey guys,

Im pretty new to being a firearm owner myself. I was wondering what the legality of keeping a rifle in my truck is?
Assuming that it is stored out of sight and locked properly,

Does leaving in my truck full time still fall under regular transport legislation? Or does leaving it in my truck when I'm not going hunting or to/from the range constitute "storage"?

Any of you guys keep a firearm in your vehicle? if so, how?

'Ppreciate your take on this guys.
CB

[catnthehat]

If it is in an unattended truck it is stored, and completely legal.
Vehicle must be locked and the firearm out of sight.
case it and put it under the rear seat or even on the floor, unloaded.
Cat

[airbornedeerhunter]

Do yourself a favour. Print off the storage and transportation regs from the RCMP website and put them in your glove box. I had a bad experience a few years ago with a young RCMP officer who tried to charge me for unsafe transportation/storage even though I met the criteria that Cat outlined above.

The regs in the glove box and his supervisor saved me from losing my rifle that day and a potentially costly court case.

99% of cops know the regs and won't hassle you. That day I got the 1%.

[flynnflon]

Yup. Read the rules and know em well. U don't wanna run into a cop that isn't sure of the rules....

[densa44]

As age has crept up we have sliders in both truck to get the kennels open with some ease. Mt wf bought a rig that goes under the slider that has 2 long flat drawers that are gun safes. Ammo in one Guns in the other.

[Armorman]

Print a couple of these out. Keep one in your truck and the other in your safe at home.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...posage-eng.htm

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

If it is in an unattended truck it is stored, and completely legal.
Vehicle must be locked and the firearm out of sight.
case it and put it under the rear seat or even on the floor, unloaded.
Cat

Once you encase the rifle, would it then be out of sight? It's a question not a statement. I am curious.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Once you encase the rifle, would it then be out of sight? It's a question not a statement. I am curious.

Yes, as long as the gun is out of sight in the locked vehicle
Cat

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

Do yourself a favour. Print off the storage and transportation regs from the RCMP website and put them in your glove box. I had a bad experience a few years ago with a young RCMP officer who tried to charge me for unsafe transportation/storage even though I met the criteria that Cat outlined above.

The regs in the glove box and his supervisor saved me from losing my rifle that day and a potentially costly court case.

99% of cops know the regs and won't hassle you. That day I got the 1%.

I had the exact same thing happen and the female RCMP officer wanted to take my rifles and see me charged! I was driving to the gun range rifles on the back seat. I pulled out the old Safe storage and transportation brochure from when those rules were implemented and showed her. She was ****ed off and told me to carry on and have a nice day... after a half hour delay.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Yes, as long as the gun is out of sight in the locked vehicle
Cat

Makes sense. Thanks cat

[Okotokian]

Hope you don't become one of our regular "MY TRUCK WAS BROKEN INTO AND THEY TOOK MY..." posters. Vehicle storage is not for me.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Once you encase the rifle, would it then be out of sight? It's a question not a statement. I am curious.

A restricted firearm must be in a non-transparent case/box and the case/box cannot be visible.

If you do not throw a blanket or jacket over your gun case, then you may get to ask your question of a judge, who may have not even read the legislation before ruling.

IIRC, there was a similar incident in a Calgary? Walmart? (disabled parking spot) where the SWAT team was called as a result of a gun case(s?) visible on the floor of a club cab PU. IIRC, there was an arrest and guns were seized, I do not know if it went to court.

It is important to know the difference between 'transporting' and 'storage'.

You do not need to trigger lock or conceal a firearm during 'transportation' but you do for 'storage'. IE: You are 'transporting' when you stop for gas. If you 'pay at the pump' then (I suspect) the vehicle would be considered to be 'attended', but if you need to go inside to pay, then the vehicle would be 'un-attended' and storage requirements would apply, ie trigger locked (or bolt removed) in trunk or if no trunk then concealed, & vehicle locked.

Good Luck, YMMV

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by qwert

A restricted firearm must be in a non-transparent case/box and the case/box cannot be visible.

If you do not throw a blanket or jacket over your gun case, then you may get to ask your question of a judge, who may have not even read the legislation before ruling.

IIRC, there was a similar incident in a Calgary? Walmart? (disabled parking spot) where the SWAT team was called as a result of a gun case(s?) visible on the floor of a club cab PU. IIRC, there was an arrest and guns were seized, I do not know if it went to court.

It is important to know the difference between 'transporting' and 'storage'.

You do not need to trigger lock or conceal a firearm during 'transportation' but you do for 'storage'. IE: You are 'transporting' when you stop for gas. If you 'pay at the pump' then (I suspect) the vehicle would be considered to be 'attended', but if you need to go inside to pay, then the vehicle would be 'un-attended' and storage requirements would apply, ie trigger locked (or bolt removed) in trunk or if no trunk then concealed, & vehicle locked.

Good Luck, YMMV

It states nothing about using a trigger lock while non restricted firearm is being stored in a locked vehicle out of sight in the regulations I printed off.
Cat

[Whitetail77]

I was pulled over on Thanksgiving for speeding on the highway on the way home from shooting chickens.

RCMP asked if we had firearms. I said yes.
He said he assumed they were locked and stored.
Told him they were in the back of the truck(canopy), but no trigger locks.
Also mentioned we were headed straight home with no stops along the way (Late for Thanksgiving dinner).
He said that was fine, but its at the officers discrestion.

Seems odd that they would have to "guess" if your making any stops along the way or not and leaving your vehicle unattended.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

It states nothing about using a trigger lock while non restricted firearm is being stored in a locked vehicle out of sight in the regulations I printed off.
Cat

Are you referring to the RCMP's interpretation (brochure)?
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...posage-eng.htm

or the actual Firearms Act?

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...age-2.html#h-3

"STORAGE OF NON-RESTRICTED FIREARMS

5. (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) it is unloaded;

(b) it is

(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device,

(ii) rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or

(iii) stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into; and

(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into."


IMHO, if the firearm is not secured as required by 5 (b) (i) &? (ii) then we are depending on a judge (who may never read the act) ruling that a vehicle is a 5 (b) (iii) "container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into;"

A prosecutor may also argue the meanings of punctuation (; & ,) and the use or non-use of the words 'and' & "or'. IMHO the act is not perfectly clear and is subject to interpretation which is unfortunately neither cheap nor guaranteed.

I submit that any charge will not be based on a violation of the brochure, but will be both based and decided on the wording of the actual Firearms ACT.

Always remember we are talking about the Law, common sense no longer applies.

Good Luck, YMMV

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by Whitetail77

I was pulled over on Thanksgiving for speeding on the highway on the way home from shooting chickens.

RCMP asked if we had firearms. I said yes.
He said he assumed they were locked and stored.
Told him they were in the back of the truck(canopy), but no trigger locks.
Also mentioned we were headed straight home with no stops along the way (Late for Thanksgiving dinner).
He said that was fine, but its at the officers discrestion.

Seems odd that they would have to "guess" if your making any stops along the way or not and leaving your vehicle unattended.

Seems to me that if you have the regs on hand you can show them that it's not at the officer's discretion. The part about transporting without a trigger lock seems clearly worded. But hey, another case for having those regs printed out.

[catnthehat]

If a person reads the link that was posted it clearly states how firearms in a vehicle are to be stored- no trigger lock is needed if it is in the trunk if in the case if a truck out of sight and the truck locked.
The only mention of a trigger lock s if in a situation where it cannot be locked out of sight in a vehicle .
Options don't matter here the law is very explicit.
Cat

[rugatika]

TRANSPORTATION OF NON-RESTRICTED FIREARMS

10. (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and


(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.



(2) Subject to subsection (3), an individual may transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle only if

(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and


(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the non-restricted firearm, is securely locked.



(3) If, in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting, an individual is transporting a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle that is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, and the vehicle or the part of it that contains the non-restricted firearm cannot be securely locked, the individual shall ensure that the non-restricted firearm

(a) is not visible; and


(b) is rendered inoperable by a secure locking device, unless the individual reasonably requires the non-restricted firearm for the control of predators.



Nothing about locks or removing bolts for unattended vehicles that I can see.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by rugatika

[COLOR="Navy"]TRANSPORTATION OF NON-RESTRICTED FIREARMS

10. (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if
snip
Nothing about locks or removing bolts for unattended vehicles that I can see.

I am confused by
"(2) Subject to subsection (3), an individual may transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
It was my understanding that once a vehicle becomes 'unattended' that 'transportation' does not apply and that the firearm is considered to be 'stored' and that 'storage regulations' apply.

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

It states nothing about using a trigger lock while non restricted firearm is being stored in a locked vehicle out of sight in the regulations I printed off.
Cat

Cat you would be correct. No need for a trigger lock in a truck, just lock the truck and make sure the rifle is out of sight is what the law is.

[rugatika]

Apparently the law considers a firearm in a vehicle to be under transport whether the vehicle is parked or moving; seems not to matter as they have made provision for the vehicle being unattended. I would make the logical leap that an unattended vehicle would normally be parked. There is no mention of how long the vehicle can or cannot be parked for.

[Scotty454]

I keep mine unloaded in a locked case, with trigger/cable locks attached, under a blanket in the back seat of the cab (pickup) during transport. Ammo kept locked in a separate box. I don't want the hassle of leaving it up to anyone's interpretation.

[Okotokian]

I wonder when transportation becomes storage (assuming you always have the rifle in the truck). Is a vehicle classed as " a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into"? I'd say a car or truck can be readily broken into.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I wonder when transportation becomes storage (assuming you always have the rifle in the truck). Is a vehicle classed as " a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into"? I'd say a car or truck can be readily broken into.

Anything can be readily broken into.
The regulations clearly state that if a vehicle is locked and not attended to it is deemed in storage.
Cat

[Hat in the Cat]

The one thing I always worried about with a rifle in a vehicle is if someone takes the vehicle (your wife to the store) and she doesn't have a PAL things just got ugly.

Does anyone know if the rifle in a vehicle has a trigger lock or is locked in a case would the law be similar to when you have the rifle at home in the same manner?

ie as long as she does not have the key/combo to open said lock she does not require a PAL.

I'll be honest, I looked quickly but I could not find anything and figured I would just avoid the situation until I had more time to dig

[CNP]

Originally Posted by rugatika

TRANSPORTATION OF NON-RESTRICTED FIREARMS

10. (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and


(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.



(2) Subject to subsection (3), an individual may transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle only if

(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and


(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the non-restricted firearm, is securely locked.



(3) If, in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting, an individual is transporting a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle that is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, and the vehicle or the part of it that contains the non-restricted firearm cannot be securely locked, the individual shall ensure that the non-restricted firearm

(a) is not visible; and


(b) is rendered inoperable by a secure locking device, unless the individual reasonably requires the non-restricted firearm for the control of predators.



Nothing about locks or removing bolts for unattended vehicles that I can see.

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Anything can be readily broken into.
The regulations clearly state that if a vehicle is locked and not attended to it is deemed in storage.
Cat

Cat. A firearm in a vehicle is not deemed to be in storage. Anytime a firearm is in a vehicle, the proper regulation to consult is the transportation regulation. At no time would you consult the storage regulations when transporting firearms in a vehicle, attended or unattended.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Cat. A firearm in a vehicle is not deemed to be in storage. Anytime a firearm is in a vehicle, the proper regulation to consult is the transportation regulation. At no time would you consult the storage regulations when ransporting firearms in a vehicle, attended or unattended.

Cite authority please.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Hat in the Cat

The one thing I always worried about with a rifle in a vehicle is if someone takes the vehicle (your wife to the store) and she doesn't have a PAL things just got ugly.

Does anyone know if the rifle in a vehicle has a trigger lock or is locked in a case would the law be similar to when you have the rifle at home in the same manner?

ie as long as she does not have the key/combo to open said lock she does not require a PAL.

I'll be honest, I looked quickly but I could not find anything and figured I would just avoid the situation until I had more time to dig

The answer is you forgot to take the firearm out of the vehicle and you allowed someone who is unlicensed to be in possession of a firearm. The fact that it is locked means nothing. There is no requirement for non-restricted to be locked when being transported in a vehicle. This is my opinion.

[NewGuard84]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I wonder when transportation becomes storage (assuming you always have the rifle in the truck). Is a vehicle classed as " a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into"? I'd say a car or truck can be readily broken into.

This is the question I always had. At what point is continued transportation (gun never leaves vehicle) storage?

I'm going to take a peek at the case law when I have a few minutes and see what I can find about how these laws have been applied and if this issue has been specifically addressed recently.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by qwert

Cite authority please.

Really? The storage regulations were posted in post 15 and the transport regulation are posted in post 18. There are two regulations right? When can you deem one is the other?