Berger Hybrid Hunter

[Alberta Bigbore]

These 140 gr pills out of the 270 win, are flyin amazing. Dont think id try them in my 300wby .

Lots of reading tells memtheu are designed to enter a chest cavity and erupt, turning the organs to cottage cheese. So basically am ELD-X bullet at high velocity, just the hybrid hunter does it at all ranges.


Anyone use these last year on anything other than deer sized game?

[elkhunter11]

The Bergers seem to behave more like the softer Ballistic Tips, huge destruction, but little penetration. I have seen the results on a moose shoulder, and it wasn't very impressive, basically a huge flesh wound, that didn't penetrate to the vitals.

[Lostinthewoods]

I shot a couple deer last year with 168G bergers and the deer didnt go 15 yards on either shot but it did have some meat loss from them opening up and turning inside into mush.

[SouthWestRanger]

My experience with bergers has been, supremely accurate bullet, devastating when put behind the shoulder but, and this is a big one, poor penetration through shoulder or bone and I’ve seen a case where the old VLD failed to open entirely. My take away is I’ve never seen a bullet so inconsistent in performance and have stayed away as a result.

[aulrich]

Life is learning how to manage trade-offs.

Even though it would give us the most reliable penetration FMJ's are not used for hunting because they don't provide enough expansion to kill reliably (in the sense of recovering the animal). So with the "long range" bullets, there are trade-offs if you are going to get any expansion under 2000-1500 fps the bullet needs to be of lighter construction mechanical properties are a bitch.

Even though there are match bullets that have a reputation for working for hunting I'll be sticking with the hunting versions of Bergers and Hornady mind you the accubond long range does look interesting but ouch the price.

[Dick284]

Re branding a target bullet as a hunting bullet, gets you these wild and crazy outcomes…… whodathunkit?

There’s enough controversy around Berger’s ELD’s etc to make it pretty obvious that there’s something not quite right for big game usage.

[DiabeticKripple]

Bergers make burger.

They do kill quick though.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by aulrich

Life is learning how to manage trade-offs.

Even though it would give us the most reliable penetration FMJ's are not used for hunting because they don't provide enough expansion to kill reliably (in the sense of recovering the animal). So with the "long range" bullets, there are trade-offs if you are going to get any expansion under 2000-1500 fps the bullet needs to be of lighter construction mechanical properties are a bitch.

Even though there are match bullets that have a reputation for working for hunting I'll be sticking with the hunting versions of Bergers and Hornady mind you the accubond long range does look interesting but ouch the price.

Accubond LR are expensive, but they perform very well on game, my choice for the 2700-3000fps cartridges, if they shoot well in my gun.

[catnthehat]

I have seen them out of a 7mag (180 I think)
Put a baseball sized hole on the offside of a lung shot seer at just over 400, and punch a good hole about the same in a moose at close to 600 with a 338.Don't remember the bullet weight .
Lung shots only for those that I know that use them, they stay away from the shoulder .
Cat

[aulrich]

When I moved to Alberta all I had was a 338wm, shot deer with it for at least 10 seasons, you learn to stay away from the shoulder.

my worst hit was losing a front and a rear quarter to one round.

I did eventually buy a 270.

[aardvaark]

First off, they are amazing target bullets, but they’re not hunting bullets, even tho the makers say they are. The following experiences were with a 25-06, don’t remember what grain bergers.

Buck 1: hit him at 100 yards, double lung hit, pencilled right thro, because it didn’t hit bone on the way in. Hit a rib on the way out, made a Xmas-orange size hole. Left a good blood trail, but had to follow the buck a good half mile before he ran out of blood.

2nd deer: had 2 does lined up perfect lung shot on both, one right behind the other. First deer I’m guessing it didn’t hit bone either side cuz it didn’t leave a blood trail in fresh snow, too many tracks to tell which one was her, likely pencilled thro again. 2nd doe had a tiny bit of splatter on the inlet side, hit a bone on the way in, shredded both lungs, exited on the other side, dropped on the spot.

Our wildlife deserves the respect to use good quality bullets designed for use on game, that do the proper job, every time. Accubond, partition, or some similar bonded bullet for me.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by SouthWestRanger

My experience with bergers has been, supremely accurate bullet, devastating when put behind the shoulder but, and this is a big one, poor penetration through shoulder or bone and I’ve seen a case where the old VLD failed to open entirely. My take away is I’ve never seen a bullet so inconsistent in performance and have stayed away as a result.

My experience as well, love their target bullets though!

[trigger7mm]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

These 140 gr pills out of the 270 win, are flyin amazing. Dont think id try them in my 300wby .

Lots of reading tells memtheu are designed to enter a chest cavity and erupt, turning the organs to cottage cheese. So basically am ELD-X bullet at high velocity, just the hybrid hunter does it at all ranges.


Anyone use these last year on anything other than deer sized game?

What load are you using with them?

[Alberta Bigbore]

Originally Posted by trigger7mm

What load are you using with them?

270 win factory loaded. Shoot very well. But so do Norma Oryx

[Gilly]

I used this exact same factory load in my 270 last year because they shot 1/4” moa all the way out to 700 yards. I shot a bull moose at 60 yards, a black bear at 30 yards and a whitetail buck at 150 or so yards. The bull moose took one in the neck at and it absolutely destroyed the vertebrae and flopped him. The bear s shoulder was completely dissolved and the jacket exited the far side and the deer took one in the neck as well and u could almost see daylight threw it. I was very skeptical about that bullet because ive been a diehard partition, accubond and x bullet type guy. I never recovered any of the spent bergers but they did exactly as advertised and dumped every ounce of energy into the animal. Blood trails were so so but nothing went further than maybe 15 yards and they worked. I would have no issues continuing to use this load for anything i need done. I did shoot a bull elk this fall with the 225 eldmatch out of my 300 prc and it absolutely folded him. So while the naysayers may disagree i would load up that 270 and go hunt. GW

[J.B.]

Been shooting 170grain .277 eol elite hunters for 9 years now with zero complaints. When you are shooting a berger or eldx/eldm type bullet for hunting I think it is very important to shoot the heaviest bullet available as they do shed weight quickly. The extra length of the heavy for caliber bullets gives a heavier, larger base to continue penetration when bone is encountered.
Also keep shot placement in the ribs as much as possible. If you want to shoulder shoot, adjust your bullet choice accordingly.

I should add Ive taken whitetails, muleys, elk, black bear and antelope with them. Will be taking it out for moose in a couple weeks.

[Pointer man]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The Bergers seem to behave more like the softer Ballistic Tips, huge destruction, but little penetration. I have seen the results on a moose shoulder, and it wasn't very impressive, basically a huge flesh wound, that didn't penetrate to the vitals.

Why would anyone put a Berger in a Moose shoulder. Seems like the same type of person that puts forks in 110v outlets, just saying.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Pointer man

Why would anyone put a Berger in a Moose shoulder. Seems like the same type of person that puts forks in 110v outlets, just saying.

Ever heard the term “$h!t happens”

Not every bullet hits the intended target or spot, with every shot, there’s a host of variables that could give an undesired result.

Believe it or not 88% of those variables are the nut behind the bolt.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by J.B.

Been shooting 170grain .277 eol elite hunters for 9 years now with zero complaints. When you are shooting a berger or eldx/eldm type bullet for hunting I think it is very important to shoot the heaviest bullet available as they do shed weight quickly. The extra length of the heavy for caliber bullets gives a heavier, larger base to continue penetration when bone is encountered.
Also keep shot placement in the ribs as much as possible. If you want to shoulder shoot, adjust your bullet choice accordingly.

I should add Ive taken whitetails, muleys, elk, black bear and antelope with them. Will be taking it out for moose in a couple weeks.

All well and dandy till run in a rifle with insufficient twist rate for those long Tom boolets……

[Pointer man]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Ever heard the term “$h!t happens”

Not every bullet hits the intended target or spot, with every shot, there’s a host of variables that could give an undesired result.

Believe it or not 88% of those variables are the nut behind the bolt.

Yes I have, and you are correct it does. I've also witnessed the all hailed TTSX fail to open up on a paunch shot deer. Penciled right through. Put the bullet where it's supposed to go and problem solved. Almost every time I hear the horror stories from a Match grade bullet, it always refers to the meat loss in the shoulder, or the lack of penetration through the shoulder.

[Pointer man]

Originally Posted by Dick284

All well and dandy till run in a rifle with insufficient twist rate for those long Tom boolets……

You'll run into them everywhere, why would you buy on if you plan on shooting a match grade VLD. Comparable to buying 35" tires for a Camaro

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Pointer man

You'll run into them everywhere, why would you buy on if you plan on shooting a match grade VLD. Comparable to buying 35" tires for a Camaro

People don’t get the twist rate thing, it’s well documented on here and other social media sources, with it happening….. some of us have enough wax between our ears to know such things, trust me when I say we are in the minority, and I’m just giving a cautionary reply for those not so edumicated.

[Pointer man]

Originally Posted by Dick284

People don’t get the twist rate thing, it’s well documented on here and other social media sources, with it happening….. some of us have enough wax between our ears to know such things, trust me when I say we are in the minority, and I’m just giving a cautionary reply for those not so edumicated.

Fair enough, I get that.

[buckman]

The Berger bullet company makes mostly if not all highly accurate frangible target type bullets. Ideal for long range shooting. I am a firm believer in well constructed bonded lead or mono copper for big game. Bergers may work some of the time. But the bonded and copper especially the tried and trusted Nosler partitions and Nosler accubonds work all the time. Remember the main objective of a hunting bullet is to kill quickly and humainly. Bergers are known to fail, even a great rifleman can make a bad shot with one and loose an animal.

[hansol]

Please explain how copper bullets "kill" better? What type of wound cavity do they make? What kind of wound cavities do other bullet types make?

Originally Posted by buckman

The Berger bullet company makes mostly if not all highly accurate frangible target type bullets. Ideal for long range shooting. I am a firm believer in well constructed bonded lead or mono copper for big game. Bergers may work some of the time. But the bonded and copper especially the tried and trusted Nosler partitions and Nosler accubonds work all the time. Remember the main objective of a hunting bullet is to kill quickly and humainly. Bergers are known to fail, even a great rifleman can make a bad shot with one and loose an animal.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by buckman

The Berger bullet company makes mostly if not all highly accurate frangible target type bullets. Ideal for long range shooting. I am a firm believer in well constructed bonded lead or mono copper for big game. Bergers may work some of the time. But the bonded and copper especially the tried and trusted Nosler partitions and Nosler accubonds work all the time. Remember the main objective of a hunting bullet is to kill quickly and humainly. Bergers are known to fail, even a great rifleman can make a bad shot with one and loose an animal.

Everything has a fail rate, nothing works all time. I think the majority of bad rap on bergers comes from guys stretching the limits and going below 1800 fps impact velocity. They recover an intact bullet, but it impacted at 1500fps.

But a tumbling berger an inch and a half long will do more damage than a perfect barnes mushroom lol.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by hansol

Please explain how copper bullets "kill" better? What type of wound cavity do they make? What kind of wound cavities do other bullet types make?

Here is one for you. My dad just shot a 320lb Mule Deer. Conservatively. It’s one of the biggest bodied mule deer I have seen. He shot it steeply quartering away with his 7mm-08 and 120 TSX’s. He took out the last rib, the bullet traversed through that deers paunch, took off the top of its heart and it exited in front of its shoulder. The deer went 10 yards and tipped over. Zero meat damage.

What are we looking for in a bullet? An explosion? The old broadside DRT? He has taken bull elk with that load. Bull moose. A pile of deer. The list goes on. But he knows where the vitals are which seems to solve a lot of problems.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Here is one for you. My dad just shot a 320lb Mule Deer. Conservatively. It’s one of the biggest bodied mule deer I have seen. He shot it steeply quartering away with his 7mm-08 and 120 TSX’s. He took out the last rib, the bullet traversed through that deers paunch, took off the top of its heart and it exited in front of its shoulder. The deer went 10 yards and tipped over. Zero meat damage.

What are we looking for in a bullet? An explosion? The old broadside DRT? He has taken bull elk with that load. Bull moose. A pile of deer. The list goes on. But he knows where the vitals are which seems to solve a lot of problems.

Things to consider…a broadside shot through the ribs of a deer is what, 10- 12” of tissue? Maybe 14 on a huge muley. So on an average deer, not alot of tissue to act on a bullet and cause expansion. With a mono you will get a smaller wound channel than a fragmenting bullet. The expiry time will directly co-relate. In the vitals everything will kill them. Bullet choice will affect how far they travel.

In the situation described the bullet passed through 20-24” of tissue? That a longer wound channel, and more time with a bullet at a larger diameter causing damage. When you hit liver, lung, heart all in one shot death is quick no matter what bullet is used.

There are use cases for monos, there are use cases for c&c, and so on down the line.

[waldedw]

The debate on which bullet is best has been going on for 60 or 70 years much the same as the debate about which cartridge / caliber is best for big game, always something new and improved on the market and since social media has come onto the scene with you tube and podcasts the amount of opinions out there are endless.

Not that I am an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I have been hunting big game for well over 50 years and reloading for 45+ years. I have shot a pile of animals over that time, antelope, deer, bear, moose and elk and they have been shot with everything from hornady interlocks and ELDX, nosler partition, remington core lock, barnes TSX and even winchester power points and every one of those bullets resulted in a dead animal.

IMHO none of them are perfect but they worked, an animal that is poorly hit will normally result in a long tracking job, even if it's hit with a large caliber and nosler partition or TSX, to say that a bullet preforms perfectly at all distances and velocities is horse pucky, but some do work better than others, and so the debate goes on, the choices are endless, shoot what you have confidence in, put them in the vitals and your tracking job will be quick and short, sniping at animals at 700 or 800 yards is all the rage now, 99% of hunters can't hit a sheet of plywood off a bench rest at that range much less and animals vitals in a hunting situation, again just my 2 cents worth.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by J.B.

Things to consider…a broadside shot through the ribs of a deer is what, 10- 12” of tissue? Maybe 14 on a huge muley. So on an average deer, not alot of tissue to act on a bullet and cause expansion. With a mono you will get a smaller wound channel than a fragmenting bullet. The expiry time will directly co-relate. In the vitals everything will kill them. Bullet choice will affect how far they travel.

In the situation described the bullet passed through 20-24” of tissue? That a longer wound channel, and more time with a bullet at a larger diameter causing damage. When you hit liver, lung, heart all in one shot death is quick no matter what bullet is used.

There are use cases for monos, there are use cases for c&c, and so on down the line.

I've shot deer at 15 yards and less with a monometal that didn't take two steps , and the furthest with the same same set up at well over 350 yards that went about 20 yards shot through the heart and just shot a big doe last night with a 139 grain SST that went 60 yards with no lungs at all.
There is no set distance , bullet, or cartridge that will do everything the same thing every time.
But after over 50 years of hard hunting with everything under the sun my overall choice for hunting is a .311,150 grain Barnes TSX coming out of the muzzle at 2774.
Cat