Reloading 38-55

[antler1]

I have an heirloom Win. 94 in 38-55. Manufactured in 1912.
I have a Lee set of dies for it and have been reading everything I can find on it.
I was wondering if there was anyone with experience reloading jacketed bullets out of a similar aged 38-55. (I don't want to get into bullet casting but I guess I could learn about pre-made cast bullets) I now have some Hornady 220gr bullets in .375 diameter. I understand that bore diameter differs a bit with the older rifles.
Barnes makes a bullet in .375 and .377 diameter as an example.
Will my .375 bullets be less accurate than ones of the larger diameter?
For powders I have seen RL7, IMR 4198, IMR 3031, and Unique-none of which I have at my bench.

[Dean2]

First thing to check on your gun given the manufacture date is, is the barrel marked as Nickle Steel. All 30-30 of that vintage are but not all 38-55 were because Winchester was still having problems producing enough of the smokeless steel.

If the Barrel is not Nickle steel you will be much better off buying cast bullets from Bullet Barn in Spirit River. It also means you can get .378 diameter, which is typically what the 38-55 from that era uses. Mine from 1896 actually shoots best with .379. If it is not NS barrel you will want to load to a slightly lower pressure./ Also, jacketed bullets being a lot undersized usually won't group well and they will tend to wear the barrel faster but you would have to do a heck of a lot of shooting to notice the wear effect.
Here is a post I wrote a while back for another site. You may find this info useful on the history of the 1894.

Okay, must be because this is a long range forum but the advice you are getting is a little short on detail. You have a Winchester 1894 chambered in 30 WCF (precursor name to 30-30) that was made in 1895. The 30-30 was always designed to be a smokeless powder cartridge. The only reason they went from 30 WCF to 30-30 was to fit the common naming conventions of the day for Black powder. That and there were still lots of old timers that loaded the 30-30 with black powder, which produces lower pressure but needs a lot more cleaning, because that was the only powder they could buy.

1895 was the first year of production for the model 1894 in 30 WCF thus your rifle should have a fair amount of collector value if it is in good, untouched condition. Whatever you do, do not refinish the wood or metal. When the model 1894 was first released the gun was chambered in 32-40 and 38-55, both old black powder rounds, despite the fact the model 94 action was specifically designed for smokeless cartridges at much higher pressures than the Winchester 1992 action.. None of these had Nickel Steel barrels in 1894 and few in 1895 unless special ordered, and were not marked with the Nickel Steel, NS or NS proof marks. In the 38-55 and 32-40 even some of the barrels made into the 1900s were not Nickle Steel. From the first release of the 30 WCF, all of their barrels were made in Nickle Steel, as were all 32 Specials, the smokeless version of the 32-40, when they came out about 6 years later. If you don't see that on the barrel, it is probably under the forearm where it should be marked NS right near the receiver, as will the proof mark. The reason the 30 WCF was delayed was due to issues machining the much tougher Nickle Steel barrels, which was also why Winchester kept issuing 32-40 and 38-55 for so long without the NS barrels.

Since you have had the gun checked out by a good gunsmith it should be safe to shoot. That said, unless you really want to use it, there really is not much upside to shooting it, especially if it is in highly collectable condition. That issue aside, if you do want to shoot it, do NOT use Trailboss, it does not make low pressure loads in the 30-30; even at only 1100 fps they make almost 29,000 CUP of pressure . Trail Boss behaves very differently in straight wall or nearly straight wall cartridges. Have a look at the high pressures it produces in the 45-70, whereas in a bottle neck cartridge it produces far lower pressure.You are far better off with 4198, 15 grain starting load with a 170 grain bullet will give you about 1400 fps or 17 grains of H4895 for about 1350 fps. Both of these produce very mild pressures of about 15,000 CUP, well within the pressure limits of even the Black powder 1894s.. A 170 grain bullet at 1400 fps means you can use cast or jacketed bullets, they will kill fine and both are very easy on the gun.

I have a couple of 1894s made in 1895 and 1896 and despite them being highly collectible I still shoot and hunt with them so I don't actually take my own advice because I am a firm believer that guns are made to be shot, not just stuck in a display case. Let us know how you make out.

[Dean2]

Here is the history and story behind one of the 38-55s I have that I inherited from my father.


The story just for interest sake:

The gun was bought new by Pop Day in 1897. The Scott and Lesson line, that ran between Edmonton and Calgary, had been held up August 3, 1886 and after that all of the coach lines hired guards or armed their drivers. Pop Day was hired late 1889 and after making pretty good money decided he wanted a new gun with repeater capability, rather than the single shot issued by the company. Thus he bought this gun and he used it for many years as his main rifle for guarding the Stage from Lethbridge to Fort MacLeod Alberta, and then Clarsholm. Clarsholm was the terminus of the Railhead that ran from Edmonton to Calgary and was named so by one of the superintendents for his wife Clara.

Before the turn of the century, the Macleod Trail was the region’s primary North/South transportation route. In 1891 the Calgary and Edmonton Railway Line was extended to Claresholm. The town was located within a topographical low point to ensure that railway cars could not roll away. The next year, the Canadian Pacific Railway left a boxcar as a marker for a watering hole that was to serve the steam-powered locomotives of the day. A railway superintendent named the spot after his wife, Clara. When a frame building replaced the boxcar in 1895, the place was called Claresholm.

When the coaches quit running in southern Alberta about 1920 Pop went to work for the CPR as a guard on their mail car runs.

August 23, 1886… The stagecoach that Scott & Leeson has been running since 1883 from Calgary to Edmonton and back is leaving the Dickson-Stevenson stopping place (nowadays Airdrie) heading for Calgary. Pete Campbell is the driver. The passengers are Mr. Burns, Mr. J Clockley and an elderly Frenchman. While passing through the shallow coulee near the Sharp Hill, two men masking their faces with pieces from a Union Jack place themselves in front of the stage pointing to the driver a Carbine and a Navy Colt’s revolver. They collect altogether $484 and superficially they look at the mailbags. The watches and other valuables are left untouched and the robbers even give a few dollars back to the passengers, so they are not totally broke. A discussion between Pete Campbell and the robbers suggests that they had robbed somebody else the day before. While the passengers are sent back to the Dickson-Stevenson stop, the robbers unhitch the horses and ride them away.

From these letters we learn that Charley Lafferty and Jack Young fled and spent some time hiding in the Rockies and even the $1,000 reward could not lead to their capture. In 1887 they were again spotted trying to unsuccessfully cross Columbia River. Both the Canadian and the American authorities wanted them, but officially they were never apprehended. Some unidentified skeletal remains of two males were also discovered north of the Columbia River.

This uncommon occurrence in the NW Territories, a stagecoach robbery, which was preceded and followed by two murders, was handled with utmost professionalism and effectiveness by the NWMP, in spite of the escape of the two bandits. Ever since, with very few exceptions, the world-famous Mounties always got their man.

Pop retired in Clarsholm in 1940. My father moved to Clarsholm late in 1954 and met Pop in 1955. Pop was then about 80 years old and had not used the gun in a number of years, but he continued to keep it clean and oiled. He gave my dad the gun, along with a bunch of stories about places the gun had been with him, so he would have something to hunt with and because Pop knew my dad would take good care of the rifle.

[Pioneer2]

My Grandpa's 38-55 has a .380" groove and shot ok with .377 bullets as they may have fattened up to fit the barrel upon firing.Shot some .381 cast and I think it is fouled and needs a good cleaning as accuracy fell off The bore is a little rough so cast may be out of the question.IMR 3031 is what I use.I may swage some .380 size jacketed in the future to keep it running.The RCBS seater die was too tight and sized the lead bullets when used.I called RCBS and they kindly sent me a cowboy seating die that was larger and solved that problem.Also own a RKS re-bored Marlin 336 with a 1-16 twist grooved .376 to utilize both .375 + .377 bullets if need be.Jet Bullets make a nice cast GC bullet for these guns.

[ken1989]

If you slug the bore, the bore is likely .380" dia. Very difficult to find .380" jacketed bullets. Shooting very undersized cast bullets (.375" or .376") will likely result in severely leading the bore. I have an early 38-55 and moulds to cast a 250 gr solid base bullet and a 265 gas checked bullet and size .380" diameter. If the bore is good, properly sized cast bullets will shoot very good.

[Pioneer2]

Makes jacketed bullets in .377 + .379 255gr. Bullets can be swaged from 9mm and .223 brass used as jackets with lead cores along with the correct swaging dies.May look into that at some point.

[antler1]

Thank you to all for finding the time to educate me.