Early fur trapping

[bill9044]

I am very new to trapping been hunting for years but I have a question regarding early season trapping. I have a resident licence so I can trap on private land with permission. My question is when do beavers and raccoon get their winter coats? I do know coyotes bears wolves grow a winter coat. I am under the assumption that I can trap earlier than October if I am on private land. I am in zone 8. Any information would be helpful

[Torkdiesel]

Did you take a trapping course ?
Please refer to the information you learned there

[bill9044]

No I did not take the course. My neighbours and I are having issues with beavers and raccoons I am looking to thin out the population.

[partimehunter]

In zone 8 the beaver season opens on Oct. 15, that should give you an idea

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by bill9044

No I did not take the course. My neighbours and I are having issues with beavers and raccoons I am looking to thin out the population.

So how did you get a licence ?

[philintheblank]

He probably challenged the test, it's not hard.

Raccoons are not listed as a fur bearer on the reg's website so I assume you can trap problem coons no problem. As for the beavers, you should be able get a problem animal permit to trap them from the county, or the county will send out their own trapper to get them.

[KegRiver]

On page 18 of the 2013 trapping regulations pamphlet there is a section on pelt primeness.

It defines Primeness of Pelts as; Furs that are at their peak in quality.
It could also be described as the full development of a furbearers winter coat.


I was taught that Beaver are at their best, roughly from the first of November through to late February or early March with the best quality being realized in the last month before the ice goes in the spring.

However, pelts taken before or after this time are marketable, but generally a lower price will be realized.

I asked Brian Finlayson from HBC about beaver primeness and he told me that beaver pelts taken through summer are marketable but at a greatly reduced price.

[Toe823]

Im pretty sure you can trap and hunt beaver year round on private land, with no licence...just need written permission i believe. I would wait til closer to November for a little better quality pelt...

[nube]

i guess as an add on to this. I wanted to start Trapping coyotes in November. I wouldn't think they would be at prime yet but do you guys do well enough on them at the start of November to still make it worth while?

[bill9044]

Thank you very much KegRiver and Toe823.
You answered my question to the tee.
I was reading somewhere that if you trap them in early spring the fur can be discoloured from their urine. Is that quite common in Alberta with our long winters? I am not as concerned about trapping as I am the hide quality.
If I am going to kill it I might as well have someone make use of the animal.

This may seem odd but I could just go down with the 22-250 and blast away but to me that seems a bit senseless to shoot and leave. I hunt big game and I eat what I kill I make use of the animal. Yes even deer.

Also if anyone had info on raccoon in their pelt prime it would be helpful. Thanks alot

[smokefromtheeast]

tryin to snag some coyotes keep getting damn skunks

[smokefromtheeast]

???

[bill9044]

Also would it be a benefit if I shot them with a 22 mag. Is it possible to sew up the hide or not worth the time?

[sourdough doug]

Head shot

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by nube

i guess as an add on to this. I wanted to start Trapping coyotes in November. I wouldn't think they would be at prime yet but do you guys do well enough on them at the start of November to still make it worth while?

I have had too many blue bellies in early November so I wait until at least the last week of November to trap long fur like Coyote and Lynx ext.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by bill9044

I was reading somewhere that if you trap them in early spring the fur can be discoloured from their urine. Is that quite common in Alberta with our long winters? I am not as concerned about trapping as I am the hide quality.
If I am going to kill it I might as well have someone make use of the animal.

This may seem odd but I could just go down with the 22-250 and blast away but to me that seems a bit senseless to shoot and leave. I hunt big game and I eat what I kill I make use of the animal. Yes even deer.

Also if anyone had info on raccoon in their pelt prime it would be helpful. Thanks alot

I think whoever wrote that book didn't know anything about Beaver.
They are aquatic animals, they relieve themselves while swimming.

I have never heard of the fur being stained by anything. What I have heard, and seen is, towards spring, many beaver will become rubbed.
What that means is that the guard hair gets rubbed of from brushing against things, usually the result of low water levels in the pond.

And once the ice is gone they can and usually do become sunburnt.
Sunburn is where the guard hairs become reddish and kinked from exposure to sunlight.

I don't know why but this supposedly degrades the quality of the pelt.
Considering that most beaver is used to make felt where the guard hairs are removed, I don't see how that would matter, but apparently it does.

I know nothing about Raccoons. I know a few Kuhns but their hide ain't worth a nickle. My sister would slap me for saying that, LOL, she's married to one.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by bill9044

Also would it be a benefit if I shot them with a 22 mag. Is it possible to sew up the hide or not worth the time?

A lot of Beaver trappers like the .22mag for beaver. I prefer a .22lr
And yes the hole can be sowed up, but it's not worth it unless the hole is in the back. And you don't want to hit them anywhere but behind the ear anyway.

For one thing, a .22 mag or lr isn't enough medicine to kill them quickly if you hit anywhere else. But if hit behind the ear, they are more then enough.

Moreover, even a lethal shot anywhere else with a larger rifle is more then likely going to cause them to sink.
Shot behind the ear they will float.

If you do sink one, it will most likely float to the surface within 24 hours, but anything can happen before that happened, and besides, you would have to return to retrieve it. Who wants to make two trips when one will do.

[nube]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I have had too many blue bellies in early November so I wait until at least the last week of November to trap long fur like Coyote and Lynx ext.

Kind of what I thought. I would expect that most guys would start mid November for Yotes at the earliest but I have some time early November so I might just try and hit the beaver and rats first

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by nube

Kind of what I thought. I would expect that most guys would start mid November for Yotes at the earliest but I have some time early November so I might just try and hit the beaver and rats first

I used to start with beaver, not just because they prime up before everything else other then Rats, but because beaver carcasses was our primary source of bait. Everything will eat Beaver, and most long fur critters seem to prefer Beaver over everything else.

My dad was supposedly the best Wolf/Coyote/Fox trapper in the district, so others have told me. He once told me to pull my Coyote and Wolf sets after Christmas. He said that after Christmas the hides would start to deteriorate and Marten and Fisher got better after Christmas. So that's what I did.
I didn't trap Foxes because there were none in the district until around 1990 and by then their pelts were not worth the bother of trapping them.

[H380]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I think whoever wrote that book didn't know anything about Beaver.
They are aquatic animals, they relieve themselves while swimming.

I have never heard of the fur being stained by anything. What I have heard, and seen is, towards spring, many beaver will become rubbed.
What that means is that the guard hair gets rubbed of from brushing against things, usually the result of low water levels in the pond.

And once the ice is gone they can and usually do become sunburnt.
Sunburn is where the guard hairs become reddish and kinked from exposure to sunlight.

I don't know why but this supposedly degrades the quality of the pelt.
Considering that most beaver is used to make felt where the guard hairs are removed, I don't see how that would matter, but apparently it does.

I know nothing about Raccoons. I know a few Kuhns but their hide ain't worth a nickle. My sister would slap me for saying that, LOL, she's married to one.

i'm with you on this one Keg , if they are shaving the hides for felt making, then what diff does it make about the shape/condition of guard hairs ? Unless it is just a reason to lower the price ?

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by nube

Kind of what I thought. I would expect that most guys would start mid November for Yotes at the earliest but I have some time early November so I might just try and hit the beaver and rats first

Not sure if you are in Alberta....
Beaver are not in full prime until mid Dec.
Muskrats are not prime until late February and March.

Why take pelts when they are not at their best?

Not worth all your effort and a waste of what might have been top quality pelts.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by bill9044

No I did not take the course. My neighbours and I are having issues with beavers and raccoons I am looking to thin out the population.

Bill9044: If you just challenged the course.. I am concerned. You missed all the information and techniques to becoming a good trapper. I would highly recommend you take the course. You need to know alot more than just setting a trap.
I wonder if you even took the test because you obviously have not read the regulations. ( if you are in Alberta) The regs have the primeness charts and answer lots of your questions.

Bad trappers give trapping a bad name.

[Red Bullets]

I was an instructor of the Trappers course in Alberta for 5 years and the only reason I can say this is from experience.

Trapping smart is trapping animals in their best winter coat, which will always get you the best returns for your efforts. Otherwise you are wasting your time and lots of pelts. Canada's trappers have always taken pride in the quality of the fur they produce. I really hate when I hear some trappers crying about not getting much for their pelts. Pelts taken in full prime and handled properly will usually get top dollar.

I am a little confused by a few posts. Beaver and rats do not prime up first, in fact, rats are the creature you trap in late winter/early spring.

The best time to take beaver is in mid-Dec. to mid -Jan., through the ice. Their guard hair starts to get singed by being under the ice by Feb.. Early or late caught beaver pelts will not be a top quality fur. If you are shooting beaver, Keg River mentioned shooting them behind the ear to prevent them from sinking. Shooting them in the nose is more effective. In the nose and they won't even kick, let alone sink. 222. caliber or 220 swift is an adequate bullet to use.
22LR or 22mag is only good for closer range.
Beavers do have a summer prime too but they might only be worth 5 bucks. Not worth the effort.

Muskrats are in full prime in late Feb. and March. Early caught rats ( or beaver)aren't worth much and probably won't sell good, if at all, at auction.

As far as racoons, here in Alberta, they are prime in November through to Feb. Just like a yapper, best in December. Yappers are called early prime in late Oct. By mid Nov, full prime. By late January their pelts are singed and guard hairs are damaged from sitting and sticking in the ice and then breeding in Feb.

While land owners do not need a licence to shoot or trap beaver, if a land owner has problem animals, find a local licenced trapper to come in and properly manage your wildlife.

[H380]

Thanx for the info , Red .. I was always under the impression that rats primed up Feb/ Mar... how are these guys with fall caught rats getting such high prices ?

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by H380

Thanx for the info , Red .. I was always under the impression that rats primed up Feb/ Mar... how are these guys with fall caught rats getting such high prices ?

I am not sure if they are getting such high prices. Rats are in high demand the past few years, and that might be the reason they are selling early rats.

[KegRiver]

I started trapping in the early 1960, caught my first beaver, unassisted in 1966. Caught my first Fisher that year as well.

I've sold Beaver taken as early as the first of October through to the end of the season.

I found that one does indeed get better prices later in the season, but the pelts taken early or late certainly are not wasted. Yes there is a price difference, but not a big difference in my experience.

And for what it's worth, several of the pelts I sold through NAFA got top price at their particular sale.
My furs were in no way inferior to anyone's.

I was lucky enough to have several mentors, including my dad.
He was raised as a Nova Scotia fisherman. At 16 he decided he wanted to be a trapper instead so he hopped on a freight and came west. He settled in the town of Peace River and went trapping with about as much instruction as most folks get about caring for a lawn, maybe less.

Government and Government instructors seem to think they are the only ones who know anything about anything. But who trained them? If indeed they had any training. Not so long ago there were no trapping course or instructors. People learned to trap from others who were already trapping.

Yes training is a good thing most of the time, and we most certainly have to abide by the law.

But the law does not require a first time trapper to take any course whatsoever. Don't blame me, I don't make the laws.
Challenging the test is perfectly acceptable according to the trapping regulations.

Besides, a 30 hour course can only teach so much. It is a place to start, not the end of learning.

Maybe it's because of the way I learned to trap, but I don't automatically assume a person does not know enough about trapping to qualify for a license just because they haven't taken a course.

I know from experience and apparently the government knows it too, that there are other ways to learn trapping. Hence the acceptance of challenging the test.

I would not advise one take the advice of anyone who misleads people by saying that furs taken legally during the season for that species are wasted because they were not at their peek of prime. Nore would I advise taking the word of someone who clearly knows little about taking beaver for fur, using a rifle.

A .222 or a 220 swift will blow the head clean off a beaver about half the time, damaging the pelt in the process.

And by the way, Beaver hunting is almost always a close range proposition because of the size of the typical beaver pond and the necessity of having to retrieve what one shoots.

Hitting a beaver in the nose will almost guarantee it will sink because it opens up the airway and allows the lungs to deflate. Shot behind the ear, in the ear, or just ahead of the ear they will float because that shot takes out the brain without damaging the airway, or the pelt, and a beaver will involuntarily hold it's breath, even in death, if it's airway is intact.

Moreover, shooting a beaver in the nose would not necessarily cause a lethal injury, unless of course that beaver were facing directly toward the shooter, in which case there is a high probability that one would blast a huge hole in the beavers back, which would significantly reduce the value of that pelt.


It is precisely because rifles more powerful then a .22 mag are too powerful for reliably taking a beaver without significantly damaging the pelt, that I own a .218 bee.
That rifle was bought brand new by my uncle, specifically for shooting beaver. He found it did way too much damage so he quit using it after putting a couple of boxes of ammo through it. He never used it again and when he died it became mine.
I tried it with the same results.

I do know a few trappers, a very few, who use rifles other then .22lr and .22mag. They opt for increased probability of damage for increased firepower in case they encounter a bear. A very real probability where I trap.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by H380

Thanx for the info , Red .. I was always under the impression that rats primed up Feb/ Mar... how are these guys with fall caught rats getting such high prices ?

Meticulous attention to fur prep really can raise the price you get. I've gotten top dollar on foxes that were literally cut in half by a .22-250 as well as fall rats that I froze and sold in the spring sales.

[Red Bullets]

Hey Keg, I had to give a response to your comments.



I found that one does indeed get better prices later in the season, but the pelts taken early or late certainly are not wasted. Yes there is a price difference, but not a big difference in my experience.

I guess I should choose my words better. I do not mean early caught pelts are wasted but meant that taking fur in its best prime will be the nicest fur, and usually will get more at auction. If a trapper is working long hours to catch animals he should try to get the best returns.


And for what it's worth, several of the pelts I sold through NAFA got top price at their particular sale. My furs were in no way inferior to anyone's.

I never suggested your furs were inferior. Early caught fur is nice fur too. How you prep and handle the pelt is the most important. You say you got top dollar at their particular sale, so obviously you produce nice pelts.

Government and Government instructors seem to think they are the only ones who know anything about anything. But who trained them? People learned to trap from others who were already trapping.

[I] I never claimed to know it all. I was "trained" by two old time trappers in my area. Started weasel trapping with my dad when I was 8, and by 14 I had caught my first coyote, fox, mink and beaver. I am close to 60 years old now. (You mentioned learning from your dad too. I wonder where they learnt to trap?)
Then I took the trapping course in 1983 and learnt even more. Because there wasn't enough interest for a course in my area, I am the one that had to find enough students and the location to have the course. One of the instructors I took the course from ran a registered trapline since the 60's too.( I can assure you that he knew his stuff. He taught trapping to better the industry standards for everyone) I learnt alot from him aside from the course and then I was approached by the provincial gov't senior wildlife fur management co-ordinator to instruct the course. He heard that I was giving volunteer presentations to grade 4/5 kids about the fur trade and thought I would be good in the classroom. I had to take the instructors course too. Then I got to instruct courses along side of this older trapping instructor. I do agree that book smart does not equate to bush smart. The standardized trapping course in Alberta was the work of many trappers, biologists, etc. to create a standard for humane trapping, fur handling, equipment, fur marketing and legal issues. I did not write the course, I followed the format presented in the trappers manual. Not all people learn to trap from others trappers. Some people are self starters and the course materials give them good insight and tips to basic trapping techniques and pelt preparation. There were also advanced courses offered to registered trapline owners that needed advice. [/I]


But the law does not require a first time trapper to take any course whatsoever. Challenging the test is perfectly acceptable according to the trapping regulations.

Challenging the test is acceptable but again... writing a passing test or book smart does not equate to knowing how to do alot of the things that trapping requires. Both of us know there are alot of things to consider when trapping. To illustrate my point...this thread was started by someone that states he took the test, but yet doesn't even know when fur is prime. I guess it should be a question on the exam.

Besides, a 30 hour course can only teach so much. It is a place to start, not the end of learning.

The course is only a start to learning about trapping, and it covers alot of stuff that would take a long time to learn through trial and error. The course also gives hands-on insight into proper skinning, pelt prep and forming that is up to industry standards. It also gives a chance for people to get to meet others with the same interests. I am sure there have been lifelong friendships and partnerships made during these courses.

Maybe it's because of the way I learned to trap, but I don't automatically assume a person does not know enough about trapping to qualify for a license just because they haven't taken a course.

[I]You forget that alot of people that want to trap come from urban or different settings and are not exposed to local trappers or alot of fur handling. Writing a test does not ensure they will learn proper trap setting and fur handling. A good example: I once found several coyote snares in an area, with the bottom of the snares about 2 feet above the ground. I knew who set them so I asked him why. He stated that he hung them so high so when it snowed he wouldn't have to go lift them up. Meanwhile he had caught 2 deer in the high hung snares that I encountered. He also told me he didn't need no trapping course cause he knew what he was doing. He admitted that he would set 100 snares and he might catch a dozen coyotes during a season. I bet he caught just as many deer hanging snares like that. It is guys like him that would benefit from the class.[/I]

I would not advise one take the advice of anyone who misleads people by saying that furs taken legally during the season for that species are wasted because they were not at their peek of prime.

It is unfortunate you feel this way. I do not want to mislead anyone or give bad info. Fact is, early fur is ok to market too but peak prime fur is what the best garments are made from. Overseas furriers and buyers seek the best fur for garments. The rest is for trim. And yes trim is needed too but I personally always took pride in producing garment quality prime fur.
And I could say you are misleading people by suggesting they take fur when not in full prime. example: fall rats.

Nore would I advise taking the word of someone who clearly knows little about taking beaver for fur, using a rifle. A .222 or a 220 swift will blow the head clean off a beaver about half the time, damaging the pelt in the process.

Not nice. Again, you are telling others I don't know what I am talking about. I have shot lots of beaver when I was a county trapper and I learned from an old beaver trapper how to shoot open water beaver in the nose. I retrieved 98% of the beaver I shot floating dead on the surface. I never shot beaver for its fur as I always caught them under the ice for their fur. I only shot beaver as problem animals for the county. And if I didn't retrieve them I didn't get paid

Hitting a beaver in the nose will almost guarantee it will sink because it opens up the airway and allows the lungs to deflate. Shot behind the ear, in the ear, or just ahead of the ear they will float because that shot takes out the brain without damaging the airway, or the pelt, and a beaver will involuntarily hold it's breath, even in death, if it's airway is intact.

Moreover, shooting a beaver in the nose would not necessarily cause a lethal injury, unless of course that beaver were facing directly toward the shooter, in which case there is a high probability that one would blast a huge hole in the beavers back, which would significantly reduce the value of that pelt.

How did you decide that you know the only right way to shoot a beaver. I did not discredit your info of shooting behind the ear. I merely suggested that a nose shot is just as effective and leaves little damage. If using a larger 22 caliber, nose shots do not blow the head off of a beaver. Shooting one behind the ear with a 222 or 220 swift would most likely blow the head off. Also , I have never wounded a beaver with a side nose shot. Every beaver I nose shot died instantly. And a nose shot has less damage to the pelt than an earshot beaver. So don't discredit me for how I know to shoot a beaver. .


So all in all, we both have been fortunate enough to enjoy learning and working at trapping. I am just an easy going guy triing to impart some of what I know to be accurate. On this forum, I won't say anything if I don't know what I am talking about. Young outdoorsmen need a good start and encouragement to learn good practices. They will learn some from this guy and some from the next guy and then they will try both ways and decide for themselves what works for them.

Sorry to have caused you to get your dander up and have such a defensive posture. Not my intention. And I don't appreciate you thinking you know it all either.

Incedently, if the thread starter had taken the course or even read the regs, he wouldn't be asking such questions. Not discrediting him but merely saying the trapping course is a good tool for anyone starting to trap or hunt furbearers.

Red

[partimehunter]

what are your thoughts of a .17HMR for beaver?

[danger7]

I have used the 17 mach2 lots with good results. The 22mag works about best for me but usually i take my mach2 because its pin point dead on for beaver range and gets the job done.