Grazing Lease Access - no response from leaseholders

[Macdrizzle]

Hello,

I’m a relatively new hunter and I’m looking for some clarification from the hivemind on what to do in this situation. I’m getting a lot of conflicting opinions on making contact with grazing leases. The gist of it is basically this.
- I scout via boots on the ground
- I spot game / signs of game.
- I look up whether or not that land is grazing lease.
- If/when it is a grazing lease I contact the lease holder both by phone and email.
- Never get a response back for any of the leaseholders I contact. This year I made an effort to contact early and there are leases I’ve tried contacting once a month from August to November, no response.

I was told grazing leases are crown land at the end of the day and that leaseholders must have their cattle out by Oct 31 or something and was also told if I don’t hear back then it’s a go because at the end of the day it’s taxpayer land and leaseholders can’t deny you past Oct 31. That doesn’t quite seem right to me but I have multiple sources telling me this.

I guess my question is where can I find the black and white regulations/laws surrounding access grazing leases? I want to respect the rules but the rules are not very clear. And when I do conduct my part of calling ahead I end up getting ghosted and no response. What do I do in this situation if they don’t respond?

[270person]

I would question those multiple sources knowledge to be honest. The right thing to do is to get face to face with the leaseholder if possible and if its not, move on. Often you'll find that direct contact will net you a lot more results than just a phone call.

[huntinstuff]

Everyone calls the lease holder.

Go visit in person. Dont offer your weekends to help mend fences for life because he knows you wont.

Just go, state your intentions, and listen to his reply.

He pays to lease it. He doesnt own it but he pays money to graze it. He can refuse you access if cattle are present in addition to a few other reasonable reasons.

Clean up after yourself and others, leave gates how you found them, etc.

[BEL]

Don’t know the official name but you need to contact the county land guy who will get in touch with the leaseholder. Always document your calls, conversations, etc. Common misconception that the cattle have to be out by oct 31. There may be some areas that have this rule but my experience they can keep livestock in there year round. BEL

[W921]

There is leased land and then there is forestry leases. The forestry leases they only have so many animal units of grazing per year but normally it's more about trying to graze late enough so lark spur is over and cows don't get poisoned and once frost hits the forestry the cows just don't do well on the grass so have to get them out.
With non forestry regular lease land they are supposed to allow hunters who go through motions and get permission, etc but basically all they have to say is we plan on having cows there and they can keep hunters off. Basically nobody cares about the laws unless the laws are being used against the hunter. Laws to help the hunter might as well blow bubbles

[Drewski Canuck]

Just went through this exact problem, two years running, and solved it. Grazing Lease was posted by the Lease Holder.

Call 310 LAND. Tell the Receptionist you have an ACCESS problem, no calls answered, left messages. Have the GRL #, contact name, and phone number called.

Ask for the District AGROLOGIST. Get the phone number, the E Mail address, and call and leave a message with the above information and your contact information, name, phone number, E Mail etc. You may have to call a few days in a row.

That is the person who deals with the informal complaint, and the formal complaint process. They will contact the Lease Holder. If there is no reply in a couple of days, call the AGROLOGIST AGAIN and say no reply AGAIN.

If you have to go to a FORMAL COMPLAINT, do so. Lease renewals factor in whether public access is being DENIED. Lease Holders know that, and if they are too stubborn with access, and there are enough complaints, it does have consequences.

Drewski

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Just went through this exact problem, two years running, and solved it. Grazing Lease was posted by the Lease Holder.

Call 310 LAND. Tell the Receptionist you have an ACCESS problem, no calls answered, left messages. Have the GRL #, contact name, and phone number called.

Ask for the District AGROLOGIST. Get the phone number, the E Mail address, and call and leave a message with the above information and your contact information, name, phone number, E Mail etc. You may have to call a few days in a row.

That is the person who deals with the informal complaint, and the formal complaint process. They will contact the Lease Holder. If there is no reply in a couple of days, call the AGROLOGIST AGAIN and say no reply AGAIN.

If you have to go to a FORMAL COMPLAINT, do so. Lease renewals factor in whether public access is being DENIED. Lease Holders know that, and if they are too stubborn with access, and there are enough complaints, it does have consequences.

Drewski

Good luck, there’s noted outfitters that won’t grant access period/don’t reply and advertise hunting in area as part of the business. In some areas, a single grazing cow is enough to deny access. How an outfitter is allowed to bid on a lease in the 1st place raises a lot of questions. It’s a systemic problem. 90% of holders are reasonable people but the system does leave room for abuse.

[W921]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Just went through this exact problem, two years running, and solved it. Grazing Lease was posted by the Lease Holder.

Call 310 LAND. Tell the Receptionist you have an ACCESS problem, no calls answered, left messages. Have the GRL #, contact name, and phone number called.

Ask for the District AGROLOGIST. Get the phone number, the E Mail address, and call and leave a message with the above information and your contact information, name, phone number, E Mail etc. You may have to call a few days in a row.

That is the person who deals with the informal complaint, and the formal complaint process. They will contact the Lease Holder. If there is no reply in a couple of days, call the AGROLOGIST AGAIN and say no reply AGAIN.

If you have to go to a FORMAL COMPLAINT, do so. Lease renewals factor in whether public access is being DENIED. Lease Holders know that, and if they are too stubborn with access, and there are enough complaints, it does have consequences.

Drewski

So there is forestry allotment and then also regular lease lands. I'm pretty sure the lease lands are 99 years until renewal. The forestry or running cows on forestry was given out years ago to who government liked and these are sold like private property now.
If a guy has one cow on 5000 acres ( gates open) this is technically being occupied by cattle but the truth is nobody is going to check if there is actually a cow on the lease land.
If you own enough land you can basically do what you want on it. Fish cops are not patrolling hard to access big private property and if no public allowed access you can do whatever you want and nobody will know.

[DiabeticKripple]

call the leaseholder, leave a voicemail stating that you WILL be accessing the lease from certain dates, on foot and then hang up.

If you dont hear back, go hunting.

[Sweldd]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

call the leaseholder, leave a voicemail stating that you WILL be accessing the lease from certain dates, on foot and then hang up.

If you dont hear back, go hunting.

Yup.


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[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

call the leaseholder, leave a voicemail stating that you WILL be accessing the lease from certain dates, on foot and then hang up.

If you dont hear back, go hunting.

It's at that point in some places.

Drones come in really handy to weed out the liars.

[ramonmark]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

call the leaseholder, leave a voicemail stating that you WILL be accessing the lease from certain dates, on foot and then hang up.

If you dont hear back, go hunting.

Don't do that. That's a 300$ charge part 3 violation ticket. Do what drewski says, it's annoying but clearly written out under the recreation access regulations. These regulations are free and can be obtained online, just use google.

[Rhino81]

Go hunting, stay on the trails, don’t litter, have fun and good luck

[Hilgy]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

call the leaseholder, leave a voicemail stating that you WILL be accessing the lease from certain dates, on foot and then hang up.

If you dont hear back, go hunting.

This right here. Problem solved

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

call the leaseholder, leave a voicemail stating that you WILL be accessing the lease from certain dates, on foot and then hang up.

If you dont hear back, go hunting.

That sounds like some sort of charge waiting to happen. If the leaseholder changed numbers or you have the wrong number or the lease changed hands before the map was updated what then?

What ever happened to talking to someone face to face?

[H380]

Can a lease holder demand pics of your vehicle, drivers licence etc?

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[Macdrizzle]

Originally Posted by 270person

I would question those multiple sources knowledge to be honest. The right thing to do is to get face to face with the leaseholder if possible and if its not, move on. Often you'll find that direct contact will net you a lot more results than just a phone call.

Dumb question but how do I ask face to face in person? All I have is a name, phone number and an email. I do not have address information and I wouldn't even be able to recognize them even if I came across them.

[Macdrizzle]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

call the leaseholder, leave a voicemail stating that you WILL be accessing the lease from certain dates, on foot and then hang up.

If you dont hear back, go hunting.

I was also told by many from another forum that doing this is considered trespassing and that you have to get permission. Hence the confusion.

[Prairiekid]

I think the whole system needs to be modernized. You should be able to go on the Alberta Relm app where you can select the grazing lease # and then provide your name, plate number and dates you wish to hunt. That way everything is documented.

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by Macdrizzle

Dumb question but how do I ask face to face in person? All I have is a name, phone number and an email. I do not have address information and I wouldn't even be able to recognize them even if I came across them.

Don't know about other places but around my neck of the woods you use the name of the leaseholder on the map and make an educated guess based on other land they own in the area and go to the nearest house that makes sense. Knock on the door and say "hi, I am Tikka 250 and I am looking to speak to Jon doe" sometimes you are at the right place and sometimes not. When you are at the wrong place you politely apologize for taking time out of their day and ask if they would happen to know Jon doe and if so where to find him.

[Dick284]

Here’s a great explanation:

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=435147

Cold calling is about as bad as it gets, if you want access that bad put some effort in, and do a face to face.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by H380

Can a lease holder demand pics of your vehicle, drivers licence etc?

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They can ask. I give that info voluntarily. Shows im not there to mess about and when they see new ribbon on their gates they know it was me. I also carry a fencing tool and a small roll of wire in case something looks flimsy.

And on my last day on my way out I usually use my chainsaw on a a few poplar that fell across the fence. The landowner will see it and knows who did it. For the $5 it might cost me in fuel why not.

Ive had guys do the same on my land when they see a tree poking out into the field and it is appreciated

[ramonmark]

The actual answers to all these questions are free and downloadable. Recreation Access regulations. Download them, know them. It goes over what the leaseholder can ask the steps a person has to take to get access and what to do if no answer given, ect.

People come on here all the time and ask about hunting regulations and everybody tells them to read the regulations.

Someone comes on here and asks about access protocol and the same people tell them what their buddy said or what they think sounds right. Read the regulations.

Google recreational access regulations alberta. You can get it rate from the court printer or save it as PDF for free.

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by tikka250

That sounds like some sort of charge waiting to happen. If the leaseholder changed numbers or you have the wrong number or the lease changed hands before the map was updated what then?

What ever happened to talking to someone face to face?

If they won’t answer the phone or call back then what sort of encounter do you think your gona get in person

Theses dicks are not full filling their duty as a lease holder.

It’s not difficult to call the person back and say no.


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[LKILR]

Originally Posted by Prairiekid

I think the whole system needs to be modernized. You should be able to go on the Alberta Relm app where you can select the grazing lease # and then provide your name, plate number and dates you wish to hunt. That way everything is documented.

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[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by LKILR

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In a way I disagree, the leaseholder is the steward of that land, I've seen many cases of abuse and in one case the the previously very tolerant community pasture grazers just put a padlock on the gate, come hunting season.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Macdrizzle

Dumb question but how do I ask face to face in person? All I have is a name, phone number and an email. I do not have address information and I wouldn't even be able to recognize them even if I came across them.

Buy the I hunter app and the landowners map for the wmu you're hunting. Only a few bucks and each quarter of land, owned and leased has a name or numbered company shown on it. Residence locations are visible. Good chance the big red dot indicating "residence" with the name G Smith on the quarter the residence sits on is G Smith. Bobs your uncle.
Only 3-4 options after that. 1.) Try to look up landowners name and call 2) He answers/He doesn't answer and agrees or doesn't agree to meet 3) he shoots you while you're walking up to his front door with your right hand extended 4) his dog mauls your azz.

I always have a few doggy biscuits in my glove compartment and make new friends or the dog mauls my azz. Hunting isn't supposed to be easy.

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by LKILR

If they won’t answer the phone or call back then what sort of encounter do you think your gona get in person

Theses dicks are not full filling their duty as a lease holder.

It’s not difficult to call the person back and say no.


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I happen to work on a ranch that deals with this exact thing as well as talk to the neighbors about the situation. The sentiment is something along the lines of "they need to see me in person before I even consider it" 2 neighbors in the area have gone to a permission slip method that needs to be signed by both hunter and landowner.
People need to realize landowners are not just sitting around waiting for you to call. they have very busy lives and they often don't have time to answer a whole pile of voicemails especially if the answer is no anyways.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by tikka250

I happen to work on a ranch that deals with this exact thing as well as talk to the neighbors about the situation. The sentiment is something along the lines of "they need to see me in person before I even consider it" 2 neighbors in the area have gone to a permission slip method that needs to be signed by both hunter and landowner.
People need to realize landowners are not just sitting around waiting for you to call. they have very busy lives and they often don't have time to answer a whole pile of voicemails especially if the answer is no anyways.

It is part and parcel of having a lease, if it is to much work for them perhaps they should give it up. It used to be that you would contact the area manager, I cannot remember the proper title, and if the lease holder would not talk to him, he would just give permission. Ranchers have figured out how to work the system and they do. I don't know what the answer is, a large part of the hunting fraternity consists of A holes and we all pay. I don't blame the ranchers for wanting to keep people off, but it is public land.

[Who Da Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

In a way I disagree, the leaseholder is the steward of that land, I've seen many cases of abuse and in one case the the previously very tolerant community pasture grazers just put a padlock on the gate, come hunting season.

Stewards of the land lol 😂
The lease is only for feeding their cattle and manage the grasses, fences, trails etc. They will poison all the gophers or shoot them, kill any badger that crosses onto the land, kill any yotes, wolves, cats, bears etc that may threaten their livelihood. But not give access to the prime ungulates, hmmmm!
2 headed coin - wearer of 2 hats.
I do understand tho there are a lot of jack<>< out there, but to deny all because of a few….
My thought is anyone who asks must give full disclosure of who, truck, plate etc and if anything of any sort this will be sent to F&W or Mounties to be dealt with accordingly.

WDF