Policing AO

[KegRiver]

I admit I don't keep up with everything that is going on in the world.

I admit I don't read every post or every thread on AO

I miss things because my interests at that moment lie elsewhere.

I thought that was okay here but apparently not.

I have a wide range of interests and know a lot about a lot of subjects. But I don't know everything there is to know about any subject, not even subjects I have training in.

I thought that was okay as well, but no, not on AO.

AO seems to have become a place only perfect people are welcome.

These days almost every post gets criticized for any of a number of failures most people are subject to.

Things like not understanding every nuance of a subject. Only highly trained experts may comment it seems.
And even then, only if the elite approve.

Maybe you were out fishing and missed a thread someone started. Not acceptable, you must keep up with everything that is discussed here.

Don't even think of forgetting something said here, especially if said by you. That is strictly forbidden.

Is this really what we want this site to be. Shall we have a new rule made, only perfect people allowed?

I understand, each is entitled to their opinion. That's good, no?

But it seems to me that when four or five people dominate the site and chastise everyone and anyone that does not live up to their standards and that's allowed, the site becomes and exclusive club for select members only.

The rules may say otherwise, management may say otherwise. But when this is allowed to continue, it silences any who would rather not get called out for breaking some unwritten unknown rule set by the elite.

Which in turn, turns AO into a exclusive club for select members only.

I've been told to just ignore such responses and on the face of it that seems a reasonable way to deal with it.

But that approach has an unintended consequence.

Yes one can ignore this, but no one wants to get chastised again and again so most simply quit posting.

The second unintended consequence is that others see me or you get chastised and decide they don't want to deal with that so they too stop posting, or never post a first time.

That's my rant for the day. I don't make the rules here, I have no desire to either. I just needed to vent.

If the majority are okay with the way things are, I'm fine with that.

More importantly if site management is okay with the way things are, it's their site, I am only a guest here. I'm here by their permission.

As for me, I've been here for a good while but I can live without this site.

I know that and I know I can leave if I don't like the way things are.

And that is true for everyone. Anyone who does not like the present state of affairs on AO are free to leave and let the elite class have their exclusive club.

[EZM]

Keg,

This isn't directed to you specifically - but sometimes the way I look at it, sometimes it doesn't matter if you are wrong, it matters how you respond to people when you are proven wrong .... do you double down, deflect and ratchet up the personal attacks - or do you consider the thoughts of others and admit it, and move on.

I know for myself, I get fed up (and sometimes short) with people who double down, want to constantly post misinformation, then refuse to be reasoned with. But most of us, myself included, are just fine with people not knowing or misunderstanding something.

It's about how you discuss things.

You need to consider that.

As far as you are concerned, I have lots of respect for you and have learned lots from you on many topics - but you and I are old school sometimes and have our areas to try and improve on when responding to others sometimes.

Good post Keg .... it's worth a discussion and self reflection for many of us.

[CNP]

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 12,332

You've got enough posts to classify as one of the elites.

Some elites don't get along with other elites.

I've received a snarky reply from you one time and it ran it's course.....whatever that means.......and I have forgiven myself and certainly have no beef with you.

Peace and Merry Christmas to you Keg.

Peace and Merry Christmas to all of us.

[obsessed1]

You sound like your whining here.

Here's a take away for everyone....
Be willing to admit your wrong when your are.
Don't pretend to know it all unless you actually do ( fact: NO one is a know it all )
Often when our knickers are in a knot it's less about the other guy and more about yourself.
Spend more time trying to learn from others and less time teaching them.

All of these tricks work together to make discussions more enjoyable for everyone.. an opinion is fine and we are all entitled to them.
Seriously if your time on AO is no longer enjoyable for you then leave, but don't blame it on everyone else. Your just as guilty as the next for all the things your accusing.



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[North40Rules]

Great Post KegRiver!

Cheers - N40

[Twisted Canuck]

We really don't need to establish Safe Spaces and have Offense Police to protect everybody's feelings. Adults can deal with discussions, which can include all kinds of things you may or may not like. We have rules. They work. We have mods who enforce the rules. Works for me.

Maybe I'm one of the Elites though. I'm not sure as nobody told me I was, I didn't get a badge or learn a secret handshake, so I suspect I'm not.

If you get annoyed and burnt out with it, take a vacation. Or even ask a mod to give you a vacation. Worked for me.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

You sound like your whining here.

Here's a take away for everyone....
Be willing to admit your wrong when your are.
Don't pretend to know it all unless you actually do ( fact: NO one is a know it all )
Often when our knickers are in a knot it's less about the other guy and more about yourself.
Spend more time trying to learn from others and less time teaching them.

All of these tricks work together to make discussions more enjoyable for everyone.. an opinion is fine and we are all entitled to them.
Seriously if your time on AO is no longer enjoyable for you then leave, but don't blame it on everyone else. Your just as guilty as the next for all the things your accusing.



Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

This x 100. Quit being a victim, and don't act like a know it all. Easy.

[Dewey Cox]

Have a snickers.

[crazynewf]

When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but with creatures of emotion, creatures bristling with prejudice and motivated by pride and vanity.

Dale Carnegie

[58thecat]

I see it as a group of people at a lunch table during break time and many conversations take place in which you may agree, don’t agree, choose not participate in etc.
I don’t see any issues here at all!


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[32-40win]

Keg, it has some of what you are saying about it involved, for sure. I also think, that a lot of people are not reading AO off a PC at home so to speak, they are just on their phone, and can't be bothered doing that much typing on their phones. I'd bet there is a correlation on the number of posts of people on PC's vs pads vs phones. That's why a lot of forums don't get a lot of posts these days as near as I can tell, something of a "Twitter or FB syndrome" to it. Too much effort req'd vs other platforms.

[tirebob]

Not in any way, shape or form is this reply directed at you Keg. It is simply addressing some of the issues with all forums in general...

I might be a moderator, but I was a member first, and speaking as a member of this forum, and other forums as well, you are always going to have discord. I have never seen a forum that does not have it in some way, shape or form. If you didn't it would be nothing but an echo chamber.

As the saying goes... "Opinions are like belly buttons... Everyone has one."

It is because everyone has opinions you are never going to have consensus on any subject. People want to be heard and in general, almost everybody wants the last word, and let's face it... We are all on a forum here made up of a lot of alpha type men who generally fit into that category. Not entirely of course, but we do have more than our fair share. It leads to mindset that one only gets heard if they are the loudest guy in the room.

With that kind of audience I think you have to expect a lot of to and fro and if nobody is willing to relinquish the last word, and every reply to a post needs a re-reply, and so on, it doesn't end. That is not something one can blame on the other guy all the time as it does take two to tango.

If any of you follow my posts that are not moderator oriented you will see I rarely do more than say my opinion and move on. I am not saying never, but once I say my peace I leave it alone for the most part. You either agree or don't agree and it is a lot better for my sanity, and probably everyone else's as well, to walk away and not bother arguing with anyone about it.

As a moderator though, I care not for anyones personal opinion and really only care about following rules of basic conduct and of keeping topics and discussions where they belong. I am nobodies parent and feel no responsibility to teach someone how to have a personality that everyone likes, but I certainly do not believe in being blatantly disrespectful and I do always try and give everyone a lot of leeway and understanding until shown otherwise. I am sure opinions may vary but I like to think myself quite impartial in how I fulfill my duties overall.

I am human however and may misread or misinterpret a situation or miss something altogether, but I do not moderate out of friendships or loyalties. I hope that seems apparent to most.

[KegRiver]

Just a couple of quick points.

First, If I believe I am right, why would I say I agree with something I don't agree with?

When I am wrong. obviously I am not aware of that.

Or do you think I would deliberately post things I know are wrong?

Second point. I don't know everything there is to know about everyone on this site.

No one does.

You may know a member as a personal friend where to me that person is just a avatar on a web page?

Yet some seem to think I should immediately recognize that persons knowledge and experience.

How does that make sense to you?

Yes some adults deal with these kinds of encounters by simply ignoring them.
Other walk away never to return.
Some speak up and ask, is this right?

So once again I ask, is there room for everyone or is this to become a site for the select few?

[MyAlberta]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

...
I am only a guest here
...

Life is a miracle, let’s celebrate.

[North40Rules]

Obsessed1, I think you made KegRiver's point for him.

For expressing his heartfelt opinion you called him a whiner. Nice!

Cheers N40

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

We really don't need to establish Safe Spaces and have Offense Police to protect everybody's feelings. Adults can deal with discussions, which can include all kinds of things you may or may not like. We have rules. They work. We have mods who enforce the rules. Works for me.

Maybe I'm one of the Elites though. I'm not sure as nobody told me I was, I didn't get a badge or learn a secret handshake, so I suspect I'm not.

If you get annoyed and burnt out with it, take a vacation. Or even ask a mod to give you a vacation. Worked for me.

I'm sure you know I respect you. If not, I am telling you now that I do.

For the most part I agree with what you say. Most of the time when someone disagrees with me I do simply walk away. And I get called out for doing so and walk away from that too.

I even have taken a vacation from AO a time or two, and got called out for that as well.

I didn't start this thread to call anyone out. My intent was to hopefully get some to think about the way they respond and why others respond to them the way they sometimes do.

And you know, it's not the disagreements, it's the assumptions that get to me.

Why would anyone assume I know they are right when I know noting about them.

Why would anyone who has never met me assume they know what I think or what my motives are?

See it's not the disagreeing that gets to me. It not just the assumptions either. I'm not even saying we need to do everything differently.

There's a lot of good on AO, a lot of good people, a lot of good advice, a lot of good stories.

The way I see it, even the most problematic among us have good things they contribute.

I'm not asking for a remake, just a tweak here or there.

All I'm asking for is to make a little room for those who don't fit in as well as the most active posters.

Surely there is room for those of us with a few flaws.

[Mavrick]

I think it's mostly one topic that has changed how members treat each other. Heck it's change how people treat each other everywhere. But I think it's very easy to deal with any conversation or inter action that you have. If you ask a question or make a statement and you get a reply that is to much for you to be part of, that's when it's time to bow out and move on. At that point neither person is going to see eye to eye or benefit from it. And really it won't change you life one bit in the real world.

[cody j]

Welcome to the internet, it doesn’t always bring out the best in people and is far different than communicating face to face

[jef612]

Honest question:
Lets say a gentleman stops you on the street and asks for a moment of your time - and you agree as you are just out on a Sunday stroll with the wife.

This person then starts to argue that 2+2=5. He has facts, university studies, youtube videos, even witnesses that have seen with their own eyes that it really does equal 5. He is urgently asking you to listen and join his side of the argument.

How much time do you owe to this person?

Are you the jerk if you tell him he is wrong?

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by North40Rules

Obsessed1, I think you made KegRiver's point for him.



For expressing his heartfelt opinion you called him a whiner. Nice!



Cheers N40

You of course are allowed your opinion. I did not call him a whiner I said it sounds like your whining.

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[fishinhogdaddy]

Thanks Keg.
I like and agree with you.
But, I also don't post often as it becomes an attack group and becomes derailed from the point of the original post. If I know I can be kind and help someone, you can't stop me!
Now, I mostly just read through and shake my head at some of what I deem "miracles of modern science" and what they have to say.
FHD

[Twisted Canuck]

Keg, I truly have no issue with you either, on this or anything else. I just cringe with all the rules and stupidity that have inundated our lives the last two years. As Maverick pointed out, it has probably colored more discussions and caused more issues than anything I have ever seen. And it makes people cantankerous and nasty. Some tend to communicate that way as a matter of course. Good and bad in everyone.

As far as elites, and making room for everyone, I can only suggest that this is an open forum with good basic rules, and what I think are fair and effective moderators. So there is room for anyone. They just may not always like the way other people are, or their opinions, or how they respond. If someone really bugs you, put them on your ignore list. My list grew exponentially this past 18 months, from 2 to well over 30. Then I accidentally cleared the whole list and now I'm starting from scratch again.

But I remembered pretty quick a half dozen or so that were on my list, and are back on my list, because I'm not interested in anything they have to say. Simple and it works.

[huntinstuff]

Ive been here a while

Used to post a lot, pics included

I read, sometimes comment

I used to be a mod. It is a wild amount of work. Policing members was actually a small portion. Keeping spam in check took a lot of time. Nuking duplicate accounts from banned members was a lot.

People fight. We seem to be designed that way. I have met a lot of AO members and only one has turned my guts. Maybe im lucky.

I kinda take everyone at face value. Some have very different views than me. Thank god for that. Ive been around the block several times, shoot my share of game, praise my un-sexy 30-06, mind my own business, and crucify Trudeau at every opportunity.

The past two years have been tough on some people. Not me, but that's not the issue. Some guys discuss, some vent, some debate, some just read and laugh....

AO get-togethers are a fantastic opportunity to meet up, put a face to an avatar, and enjoy ourselves.

Perhaps we can organize our own swap meet someday. I know guys and gals that would gladly drive to such an event. I think it's needed. There are a lot of issues today and I think some personal contact would really help. We are a social animal and sometimes the forum just doesnt give us enough of what we need.

[Mb-MBR]

I utilize the teaching and philosophy of my grandfather, likely not his but he used it on me many times...."Never get into a ****ing match with a skunk expecting to win". When followed, you'll rarely get sprayed......LOL

[Albertadiver]

I need a mojito.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by fishinhogdaddy

Thanks Keg.
I like and agree with you.
But, I also don't post often as it becomes an attack group and becomes derailed from the point of the original post. If I know I can be kind and help someone, you can't stop me!
Now, I mostly just read through and shake my head at some of what I deem "miracles of modern science" and what they have to say.
FHD

I wish I were as disciplined as you.

My problem is I don't see where the conversation is going until it's too late.

You are right, too many threads go sideways because someone sees one little thing they think you or I got wrong and the focus in on that.

Where I go wrong I think, is I always assume it's a simple misunderstanding.
I think I must have worded something poorly or forgot to mention a important point. Next thing I know the thread is off in the weeds.

I have to admit, some times it's the wolf pack that gets me going. I know I should walk away but it feels like I'm giving up when I did nothing wrong.
So I try to defend my position. It's the wrong way to go I know, but I do fall into the trap way too often.

[Dean2]

I reaD most of the posts on AO, I studiously try to avoid Covid and the Politics ones. I have also become a lot more selective about the ones I posts on, and I try to decide if it is worth the effort to join the conversation or add my knowledge or opinion. Opinions can be debated and I have no problem with someone who disagrees. Cold hard facts aren't open to debate just because someone doesn't like the truth. Easiest example; The world is not flat, but there are still a bunch of people that claim it is. The other thing not open to debate is an individuals personal experience with something. Just because it doesn't match yours doesn't mean they are lying or making stuff up. There are however a lot of people who regurgitate and publish stuff they have read as their own personal experience. These folks are very hard to separate and it is why there are certain people on here who I believe without question it is their experience when they claim it is, and others, not so much. There is no point in debating the experience of the ones I believe, it is after all their personal experience, and the rest aren't worth the breath because they aren't going to admit to it anyhow.

The long and short of this, I post quite a bit less than I used to and far more selective on the threads I participated in. I do answer every PM I get, and that is a fair number, but general posts, I don't feel any obligation to weigh in on. I know for sure I haven't lost anything personally from doing this nor do I believe anyone else has either. It is all about personal balance, it does not have to be all one way or the other, the world has lots of room for Grey.

Have a Merry Christmas everyone and try to enjoy what is a truly great season of the year, as well as the fact that most of what gets argued about on here are truly First World Problems.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Ive been here a while

Used to post a lot, pics included

I read, sometimes comment

I used to be a mod. It is a wild amount of work. Policing members was actually a small portion. Keeping spam in check took a lot of time. Nuking duplicate accounts from banned members was a lot.

People fight. We seem to be designed that way. I have met a lot of AO members and only one has turned my guts. Maybe im lucky.

I kinda take everyone at face value. Some have very different views than me. Thank god for that. Ive been around the block several times, shoot my share of game, praise my un-sexy 30-06, mind my own business, and crucify Trudeau at every opportunity.

The past two years have been tough on some people. Not me, but that's not the issue. Some guys discuss, some vent, some debate, some just read and laugh....

AO get-togethers are a fantastic opportunity to meet up, put a face to an avatar, and enjoy ourselves.

Perhaps we can organize our own swap meet someday. I know guys and gals that would gladly drive to such an event. I think it's needed. There are a lot of issues today and I think some personal contact would really help. We are a social animal and sometimes the forum just doesnt give us enough of what we need.

I do read as many of your posts as possible for the simple reason because your an optimistic person , you sir are not a Donnie downer plus your a true outdoorsman which is why I joined this site.

The last two years has been tough for some, but man we all tap our own keyboards .

Life as tough as some may think it is is much better then 95 percent of the folks on this planet. It is what it is. The 30 06 is maybe ???????????

JD

[bessiedog]

Nope Keg.

You starting this thread…. Nope.

Don’t post as the victim. You’re not. Not even close. Not by a looong shot.

If you actually engaged in discussions, I’d give ya a pass.

But your initial post here even tries to paint others as ‘bad guys’ and you as picked on.

Wrong.

Congrats. You’re officially the first person on my ignore list.

That’s one hell of an achievement.


Have a great Xmas.

[elkhunter11]

The simple fact is that if you are going to post on social media, you need to have a fairly thick skin. The mods will soon get tired of someone reporting that their feelings are hurt, because they are here to enforce the forum rules, they aren't here to comfort people with hurt feelings. If you find that you end up angry or frustrated after your session on AO, perhaps you are taking the forum too seriously. As Dean pointed out, there are people here that I know speak from experience, and even if don't agree with them all the time, I do respect their point of view, because it is based on actual experience. As for the people that obviously just repeat nonsense that they have heard, or that regurgitate Chuckhawks, I don't take their opinions seriously, because they are just parroting things with no actual experience.
And has been previously posted, one single thread has changed my opinion of certain posters, and that thread has likely changed a lot of people's opinions of other posters.
I have met several AO members, I have hunted with several as well, and there are many more that I would likely enjoy hunting or fishing , or sitting around the campfire with. We may not agree on some things, but overall, I believe that there would be enough in common, and enough mutual respect, that we would all enjoy the experience. Are there exceptions? Of course there are , but that is life, everyone isn't going to get along with everyone else, that is just the way it is.
AO is here for a source of socializing and for entertainment, and people shouldn't expect a lot more out of it.