Shotgun point of aim

[W921]

So what can be done at home with files or dremnal tool to regulate a double barrel shotguns point of aim if one of the barrels are off?
Can the angle of the crown or muzzle effect the point of aim for that barrel?
What about opening up the choke on the one side of one of the barrels. Example a sanding drum on a dremnal or drill and you open up the choke on one side of one barrel to effect the point of aim for that barrel?
Yes I know the more money than it's worth proper ways of doing things. I'm looking for a cheap more time than money fix with files or sanding disc's,etc.

[catnthehat]

Best way is to change the stock geometry, not the barrel.
After the barrels are mated, trying to change anything on the choke will mess it up before it fixes it.
Changing the stock pitch, comb height or the comb alignment is much easier.
Cat

[W921]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Best way is to change the stock geometry, not the barrel.
After the barrels are mated, trying to change anything on the choke will mess it up before it fixes it.
Changing the stock pitch, comb height or the comb alignment is much easier.
Cat

It's for cowboy action. Probably 30 year old Brazilian double coach gun. The right barrel shoots good. It's the left barrel that shoots wrong point of aim.
I haven't checked yet but I think right barrel is I.c. the left is modified .
If both were cylinder bore or I.c. it would be better for ranges involved.
I would rather the left barrel shot closer to the same point of aim as the right barrel instead of just opening the choke so it overlaps closer.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by W921

It's for cowboy action. Probably 30 year old Brazilian double coach gun. The right barrel shoots good. It's the left barrel that shoots wrong point of aim.
I haven't checked yet but I think right barrel is I.c. the left is modified .
If both were cylinder bore or I.c. it would be better for ranges involved.
I would rather the left barrel shot closer to the same point of aim as the right barrel instead of just opening the choke so it overlaps closer.

For cowboy action it is probably easier to learn to shoot Kentucky windage if you are shooting slugs.
If shooting shot it must be off quite a bit .
Cat

[W921]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

For cowboy action it is probably easier to learn to shoot Kentucky windage if you are shooting slugs.
If shooting shot it must be off quite a bit .
Cat

At 15 yards the left barrel was probably close to a ten inches high and about 5 inches left.
Right barrel a few inches high and centered.
I'm not a shotgun guy. Haven't hunted with shotgun since I was a little kid.
New territory for me.
Now a rifle muzzle or crown has to be 90 degrees to the bore or I was always told the gas will deflect the bullet.
Wouldn't gas deflect a wad and lead pellet ball?
Or if I opened up the choke on one side of the one barrel I'm wondering what effect this would have? The left barrel is to tight a choke for range involved .
In cowboy action that I have seen they are using really light loads with small 7.5 shot shooting metal targets that don't move much when hit. Would be better to hit target more centered. Day I was there they had three judges and usually two or three opinions on how many targets were hit. Honestly I was watching the shooters technique and not the targets to try to learn but the point I guess is the more solid the hit the better.
I'm kind of ocd about guns windage being off and not because of wind. Haha

[fps plus]

Imagine that a quality Brazilian sxs barrels are not regulated properly 😁

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by fps plus

Imagine that a quality Brazilian sxs barrels are not regulated properly 😁

Cat

[W921]

So gun coming out of recoil is part of my problem. With short barrels and lightweight the gun is no fun to shoot with 3 inch magnums. I noticed with regular field loads if I change my body position and stand more square to target without putting my one foot in front of the other. This effects point of aim.
I'm thinking because with double barrel your barrel is not in line with stock so recoil has more effect.
Standing square to target the left barrel now hits 3.5" high and 1 and three quarters left.
Gun is for cowboy action so I need to get into reloading for 12 gauge. I'm going to see where it hits with really light cowboy loads before I mess with it anymore.
I couldn't find a dime so I measured left barrel 0.706" at muzzle so I'm guessing modified choke. It's shooting about 8" spread at 15 yards.
I didn't measure it but at that cowboy shoot they were shooting shotguns at probably 10 yards so once I get reloading and see where it hits with light loads I'm going to probably open it up more and while I'm doing that I can play with the regulation of the barrels. I strongly suspect the muzzle filing on one side of muzzle should cause shot to go opposite way. If nothing else it should open up choke and cause through a more open pattern more shot to go where I want.
Anyway I got to get set up for reloading 12 gauge. 8f any of you have old loading gear and I don't care how old let me know in a P.M.
Same thing if you have quality 73 ubert,miroku or original rifle or other cowboy action stuff. Antique single action as well.

[fps plus]

Are you actually suggesting filing the inside of the bore ?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fps plus

Are you actually suggesting filing the inside of the bore ?

That is what it sounds like to me, not something that I would ever try.

[ruger300]

W921, I have some shotgun reloading gear I’m not using now if your interested and not too far away, I’m around the Onoway AB area.

[fps plus]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

That is what it sounds like to me, not something that I would ever try.

Filing won’t do any good but will qualify for a Bubba award. Sorry , has to be said ,

About the only chance maybe to go in with a choke reamer that’s a little larger and try to force the reamer the direction it needs to shift.

[W921]

You know if I quoted a well known professional you guys wouldn't question about what i suggested about regulating shotgun barrels.
Haha you might get bored with your hobby just doing the same old stuff and talking about the same old things and following the same old guidelines and you know if you don't build something it's not really yours.
Smile
Like Gretzky said you miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by W921

You know if I quoted a well known professional you guys wouldn't question about what i suggested about regulating shotgun barrels.
Haha you might get bored with your hobby just doing the same old stuff and talking about the same old things and following the same old guidelines and you know if you don't build something it's not really yours.
Smile
Like Gretzky said you miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take.

I don't do the Bubba thing, if I bought a two barreled shotgun that didn't have regulated barrels, I would just get rid of it. As for Gretzky, he is just a has been, doing degrading commercials, trying to stay relevant.

[W921]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I don't do the Bubba thing, if I bought a two barreled shotgun that didn't have regulated barrels, I would just get rid of it. As for Gretzky, he is just a has been, doing degrading commercials, trying to stay relevant.

Part of my interest in cowboy action is its alot like hot rodding or racing. Drag trucks are built. Not bought. Then the truck is only half the equation. You need the ability. It's like a cowboy throwing his loop. He can't fake it.
I could have bought an expensive and beautiful quality double . Would have made things easier to start with quality. I noticed the competitors seemed to favor external hammers. I think it's because they break open quicker and are actually faster. I'm sure I could have bought a way more expensive gun but then I miss out on part of the fun.
This cheap Brazilian gun with internal hammers wasn't anything cool or anything you would probably want.
First thing I did was reshape the breakdown lever and cut two coils of the spring, polished everything to make it faster to reload. I also beveled the chambers sort of like a 1911 pistol magazine well.
Extractors not allowed so I honed the chambers so I can shake the empties out. I also disconnected the automatic safeties so it's a manual if it's wanted.
BTW I got all dressed up and went outside in this wind with my flashlight to dig out my old gunsmithing book I bought from brownells probably 45 years ago. Roy F. Dunlap’s book, Gunsmithing. I'm sure you and everyone else has read this book at one time or another.

pages 330,331
"Another method of correcting an off shooting shotgun is in little favor today. It consists of removing metal from inside the bore at the muzzle, in the direction desired to move the pattern . Metal must be filed all the way back the length of the choke "

[Dewey Cox]

Cut both barrels as short as you can, and sell it as soon as you can.
That gun is good for nothing.

[W921]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

Cut both barrels as short as you can, and sell it as soon as you can.
That gun is good for nothing.

It's modified for competition. I get that you don't get it.
A month ago I was talking to a guy about his 3 gun competition. I didn't get it or understand the point. Now I understand.
If it wasn't outlawed by Trudeau I would now actually be interested in it as well.
As a hunter I was always about one shot kills. First deer I ever shot when I was a kid I got cursed at and ridiculed for shooting it twice. Seriously many deer later he would still only want to talk about my first deer years before that I shot all to heck. Haha.
Anyway I never practiced repeat shots. I'm normally shooting in grass so I always catch my brass to reload. Even on big game I catch my brass out of habit.
Well part of draw of cowboy action is learning something new. Learning to shoot fast repeat shots. It's a new skill for me. I enjoy learning.
My impression of cowboy action is its sort of a poor man's version of three gun.
Plus i just find 19th century guns more appealing.

[Dewey Cox]

Oh, I assure you I get it...

My over/under trap gun barrels came apart a few years ago, so i inquiried about getting them put back together...
It wasn't worth the expense to repair the barrels on a 70's citori (no gunsmith would even give me a price...)
So i soldered them together myself.
That gun still shoots where i point it; from both barrels.

I'm willing to tinker, and save money, but at some point your time has got to be worth more than a Brazilian double.

I like the idea of filing a worthless gun until it shoots a usable pattern.
But i like better the idea of starting with a gun that shoots both barrels in the (relatively) same direction, and going on from there.

[fps plus]

I must have missed the day at Colorado School
Of Trades Gunmithing back in 1986 where they recommended filing .

[W921]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

Oh, I assure you I get it...

My over/under trap gun barrels came apart a few years ago, so i inquiried about getting them put back together...
It wasn't worth the expense to repair the barrels on a 70's citori (no gunsmith would even give me a price...)
So i soldered them together myself.
That gun still shoots where i point it; from both barrels.

I'm willing to tinker, and save money, but at some point your time has got to be worth more than a Brazilian double.

I like the idea of filing a worthless gun until it shoots a usable pattern.
But i like better the idea of starting with a gun that shoots both barrels in the (relatively) same direction, and going on from there.

So the gun I borrowed to shoot was a very high quality old German double that my friend modified for cowboy action. I didn't have much time to look at it but I'm thinking pre ww1 Era just because of the hand fitted old fashioned double screws, engraving, etc. But beautiful high quality and at one time a very expensive top gun.
Actually if money no object I suspect the external hammers platform is best for this type of shooting. You don't c9ck your gun on opening the action so with one hand the hammer gun breaks open as you are feeding it new rounds. Then you fan the hammers back as you bring your gun up to target.
But there is no end to what you can spend here.
73 rifle by the time ready for competition and there are different ways to go about this but a uberti or miroku. Well you can buy new competition models. I suspect they are just standard model with rubber non slip pad, spring kit and possible some type of shorter throw kit and probably a bigger front site. They are about 2300 plus shipping new. You still could easily put more time and money into this platform. Plus you need two single actions. So with handgun freeze this means antique status so even with Smith &wesson you're going to be 10,000 . Colt 73 single action army dominates the sport so a pair of these and you are easily 20,000. Plus molds,reloading gear,leather ,range membership, etc and you see how this can spiral. Haha