Double Retrieves

[Doodle30]

Hey All

It's been a while since I have spent much time on here but the family got a new lab and the itch has been burning to get back on some birds. That seems to have pulled me back to the forum.more frequently. It's always been a great source of info.

The training has been going pretty well. Izzy is about 4.5 months and we have the basics down. Sit, stay, come down, heel. Always working on these of course but it's going well. She retrieves bumpers to the hand in a heeling position really well also.

My question to the dog handlers out there is when do I introduce doubles and is there a specific method you like to follow? I know some of the basics like you send the dog to the second bumper but I am looking for some tips to get started. Also curious about age. is she too young.

I took a quick look at some of the info on YouTube but didn't seen anything there.

As always. Thanks for the help.

Doodle

[ks.snow]

Give these a try:

https://youtu.be/wfTS1A68rX4

https://youtu.be/IqxyvjCGZYY

They aren’t too early to start doubles if they are doing singles without any hiccups.

[Newf]

4.5 Months is still pretty young for anything complicated. Think about it- that’s less than 20 weeks your puppy has been alive… Sounds like you are pushing through stuff pretty quick.

Stick with obedience and singles for now. Your pup is most likely still doesn’t have all its adult teeth- and hasn’t hit the “teenage stage” yet. Couple things are likely going to happen - 1) all the obedience you think the pup knows right now- well she’s gonna challenge that. Probably somewhere around the time she hits 9 months old. Give or take. 2) good chance retrieving will drop off as her mouth gets sore from teething. It may not— but there’s a good chance.

It takes time to train a retriever- don’t rush it. Your first year is all obedience, basic retrieving, socialization, and learning to be a member of the family. Tons of things to learn.

I would suggest getting yourself a good training program and following that. Training a Retriever puppy by Bill hillmann is a good place to start. After that something like Total Retriever training by Mike Lardy, or Smartwork by Evan Graham. Or continue on with Hillmanns land and water fundamentals. Pricey. But it gives you the instruction to train a good working dog.

If you follow along one of those programs by next hunting season she will be ready to take out and be able to a decent hunting companion.

If you interested shoot me a pm, maybe we can get together so some training if your interested.

[Pixel Shooter]

Some real good advise above. Sometimes we get eager and we rush things then trust me the wheels come off. Be brilliant at the basics. At this age let the pup be a pup and as u are doing expose to many things and work on basics. If pup is getting good do it in an environment where there are distractions. You have made good progress but trust me it is no where where it will need to be and have a lifetime to uphold the standards. Marking is an art. Even high level dogs we spend a ton of time doing singles and spend allot of time doing marking drills

As far as retrieving keep things simple. Set up for success. Only a few bumpers a day. When dog returns never take out of mouth or they will short stop you and not fully return. They will drop it and do it again. Less is more at this age. Find a program and stick to it. Programs above are for more experienced in many ways. Problem being they show you what to do which is very pragmatic how we go about training. Key is how to overcome challenges and obstacles your dog will throw you and how to be an effective communicator so the dog understands what you are asking then to do. Freddy King is cheap, heard good reviews, doesn’t always deal with high end pups and you get to see allot of the challenges. Videos someone from day one right til a finished dog. It’s daunting but day by day lol. I’m a huge Lardy fan but program can be tough to navigate. Good luck

[Doodle30]

Thanks for the input thus far guys.

I may just delay the introduction of doubles for now. Honestly I never even attempted doubles with my previous Lab and she was a better Dog in the Field than I was a Hunter in the field.

I will definitely continue the obedience training and retriever work.

Plan is to get some training birds in the fall so that she gets some practice working cover and introducing gunfire. She doesn't seem to shy away from sudden load noises. I have been working on a back yard project with a framing nailer. Yes I understand a nailer isn't a shotgun but she was drawn to the nailer out of interest rather than shying away. I took that as a promising sign but I will proceed with caution.

I will also look into some of these training video's to follow along with. While not a complete guide I like the Standing Stone Kennel video's on youtube.

Darren

[Pixel Shooter]

Just fyi I would not be conditioning to sound. Spend the time to properly gun condition a pup which comes after obedience, collar condition and FF. Key is linking the shot to a retrieve not to ignore or condition to noise. Gun goes off want then liking in the sky. If you don’t do your part well that’s where you get the dirty looks of disgust 🤣

Calgary has a great club and grounds. Newf is a member reach out to him

Originally Posted by Doodle30

Thanks for the input thus far guys.

I may just delay the introduction of doubles for now. Honestly I never even attempted doubles with my previous Lab and she was a better Dog in the Field than I was a Hunter in the field.

I will definitely continue the obedience training and retriever work.

Plan is to get some training birds in the fall so that she gets some practice working cover and introducing gunfire. She doesn't seem to shy away from sudden load noises. I have been working on a back yard project with a framing nailer. Yes I understand a nailer isn't a shotgun but she was drawn to the nailer out of interest rather than shying away. I took that as a promising sign but I will proceed with caution.

I will also look into some of these training video's to follow along with. While not a complete guide I like the Standing Stone Kennel video's on youtube.

Darren

[Doodle30]

Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter

Some real good advise above. Sometimes we get eager and we rush things then trust me the wheels come off. Be brilliant at the basics. At this age let the pup be a pup and as u are doing expose to many things and work on basics. If pup is getting good do it in an environment where there are distractions. You have made good progress but trust me it is no where where it will need to be and have a lifetime to uphold the standards. Marking is an art. Even high level dogs we spend a ton of time doing singles and spend allot of time doing marking drills

As far as retrieving keep things simple. Set up for success. Only a few bumpers a day. When dog returns never take out of mouth or they will short stop you and not fully return. They will drop it and do it again. Less is more at this age. Find a program and stick to it. Programs above are for more experienced in many ways. Problem being they show you what to do which is very pragmatic how we go about training. Key is how to overcome challenges and obstacles your dog will throw you and how to be an effective communicator so the dog understands what you are asking then to do. Freddy King is cheap, heard good reviews, doesn’t always deal with high end pups and you get to see allot of the challenges. Videos someone from day one right til a finished dog. It’s daunting but day by day lol. I’m a huge Lardy fan but program can be tough to navigate. Good luck

Hmm. Regarding you comment on never taking bumper directly from their mouth. Izzy has been very good with this, IE has never stopped short. Are you suggesting that she is more likely to do this when birds are introduced or many dogs will stop short with the bumper? I haven't force fetched her yet so she doesn't hold as firmly as a force fetched dog but she returns with bumper to heeling position and holds the bumper 4-5 seconds for me to grab. I was pretty happy with that consider her age. I am just working on extending that hold time in our daily training. The bumper training is about 10 bumpers a day so pretty short. Then we put the bumper away and do so fun fetches with her ball.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Doodle30

Thanks for the input thus far guys.

I may just delay the introduction of doubles for now. Honestly I never even attempted doubles with my previous Lab and she was a better Dog in the Field than I was a Hunter in the field.

I will definitely continue the obedience training and retriever work.

Plan is to get some training birds in the fall so that she gets some practice working cover and introducing gunfire. She doesn't seem to shy away from sudden load noises. I have been working on a back yard project with a framing nailer. Yes I understand a nailer isn't a shotgun but she was drawn to the nailer out of interest rather than shying away. I took that as a promising sign but I will proceed with caution.

I will also look into some of these training video's to follow along with. While not a complete guide I like the Standing Stone Kennel video's on youtube.

Darren

Darren, Standing Stone Kennels is for pointing dogs. Newf has given people a great list. I would only add to that list this one: The Retriever Trainer Freddy King. For roughly $80 us, you have access to an exhaustive and online video bank. For new or newer trainers, I suggest Freddy King. His videos are accessible on your cell phone, and it shows real dogs in real time. No editing. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Ask Pixel about my dog Chief. He is my once in a lifetime dog. He picked up on EVERYTHING really quickly. Guess what? I rushed him. I should also add that I got discourage as hell watching the videos by some of the trainers, as they are edited, and only show perfect dog work. That's not reality. You also gain access to a huge Facebook group. Guys can ask any and all questions and Freddy answers, as well as the members, of which there are a handful of other well known pros that contribute too. To my knowledge, no one else is doing it this way or to this extent. Finally, you can follow littermates from the time they are pups until the time they are finished dogs. Every, single step along the way, and in sequence. No one else does that, and it allows you to see different dogs, with different personalities, doing the same things.

I'm currently helping my son train his GSP pup, but let me tell you, playing grab bag with training methods, taking a bit from here and there, is a fool's errand. People rarely want to follow that advice, but after they see the holes, gaps, and difficulties it results in, they usually follow the advice on their next dog. I own most of the video series, and like the majority of people, played grab bag, until Pixel set me straight. I was very fortunate to have his friendship and help with my Lab. Training a pointing dog compared to a retriever is light years different. Retriever have to get a PhD, whereas pointing dogs need gr 6.

Just being honest. Our pup is a year old, Guess what she has learned other than being a member of the family. Only one command. Here. That's it. She comes at a gallop when she hears that sticatto whistle blast. That can save her life. The rest she will learn on her own with exposure to birds.

That approach don't work well with a retriever

Good luck to all with new dogs this year!

If anyone needs a few frozen ducks for training, I have a couple I could spare, as I will be hunting this weekend. Shoot me a pm.

I'm in Edmonton.

[Doodle30]

Originally Posted by sns2

Darren, Standing Stone Kennels is for pointing dogs. Newf has given people a great list. I would only add to that list this one: The Retriever Trainer Freddy King. For roughly $80 us, you have access to an exhaustive and online video bank. For new or newer trainers, I suggest Freddy King. His videos are accessible on your cell phone, and it shows real dogs in real time. No editing. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Ask Pixel about my dog Chief. He is my once in a lifetime dog. He picked up on EVERYTHING really quickly. Guess what? I rushed him. I should also add that I got discourage as hell watching the videos by some of the trainers, as they are edited, and only show perfect dog work. That's not reality.

Good luck to all with new dogs this year.

If anyone needs a few frozen ducks for training, I have a couple I could spare, as I will be hunting this weekend. Shoot me a pm.

I'm in Edmonton.

Thanks for the additional input and the offer for birds. For clarity I have following Standing Stone for some obedience stuff but they have some flushing work they do as well. Sprig a yellow Lab is the videos that I have watched.

Agreed I want to see success and fails as part of my training manual. I will most certainly fail.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Doodle30

Thanks for the additional input and the offer for birds. For clarity I have following Standing Stone for some obedience stuff but they have some flushing work they do as well. Sprig a yellow Lab is the videos that I have watched.

Agreed I want to see success and fails as part of my training manual. I will most certainly fail.

Here is a link... https://www.theretrievertrainer.com/...king-training/

I am not at all badmouthing Standing Stone. But he's a pointer guy. Maybe he has a token lab in his videos. Hew is not a retriever trainer though. If we ever met up, I'd tell you a cautionary tale about a family that bought a supposedly finished pointing dog from a well known "professional retriever trainer" in Western Canada.

Dogs are dogs, but the steps to get from A-Z could not be more different.

My point is, choose a program and stick to it. That, along with don't rush your dog, is the best advice I know.

With commitment and consistency, as well as any of the highly regarded training program, and you will blow yourself away at just how good you will be able to make a dog. It's great. There is no better relationship than that of a man and his hunting dog.

Good luck!

[Big Grey Wolf]

You guys probably think I am crazy, I know my wife does! However I told story before, lady at work Asked" How did you train your Springer". I said did not train him just taught him English then told him what I wanted him to do"
Best pheasant dog I ever had.
Some good advice wait for him to grow up before get to complicated training.

[Pixel Shooter]

its inevitable , they will stop short cause every time they come to you, you take it away. I want that bumper in her mouth as long as she will leave it there. they will always drop because they have the attn span of a knat LOL. just praise them up verbally and physically, make them feel like a king

10 bumpers a day and on top making fun throws is too much IMHO. doesn't matter what you throw, they don't differentiate. a retrieve is a retrieve. puppies, less is more so its a big deal when you do it with them once or twice a day, helps build drive. Too many throw way too many bumpers, then it becomes a job and just not as fun. Its hard to build drive, but its easy to take it out of them. have fun with the pup, watch some Hillmann videos on youtube,

good luck with your pup!

Originally Posted by Doodle30

Hmm. Regarding you comment on never taking bumper directly from their mouth. Izzy has been very good with this, IE has never stopped short. Are you suggesting that she is more likely to do this when birds are introduced or many dogs will stop short with the bumper? I haven't force fetched her yet so she doesn't hold as firmly as a force fetched dog but she returns with bumper to heeling position and holds the bumper 4-5 seconds for me to grab. I was pretty happy with that consider her age. I am just working on extending that hold time in our daily training. The bumper training is about 10 bumpers a day so pretty short. Then we put the bumper away and do so fun fetches with her ball.

[Sundog57]

Look up Bill Hillmann on Youtube - lots of free stuff - then you can decide if you want to buy any of the DVDs.
Also Check out Pat Burns / Elite Retrievers.
Most recently Pat Burns ran a video seminar with Jim van Engen and another one with Pat Nolan - if you can get access to either of these there is just a pile of useful info for very young dogs.
If you want to do hand thrown doubles, ie you throw them, do it with small white bumpers on a football field. With a young dog you are only trying to teach that the 1st bumper is not necessarily the only one. When they come back in with the first, they can see the second one, then they have a target. Keep it really short.

All of the successful pros will tell you that they focus on doing lots of singles, even with All Age dogs. You may wish to have more than one gunner out there and have your dog look at the one who is going to throw and not head swing or look to the next one until you move - this is all part of the basic obedience training. (sit command)
Remember you are teaching not testing - 80% on stuff they can absolutely do 20% on stuff that is a bit challenging. - we all want to go too fast.
and...
yard work is crucial, lots and lots and lots of work on obedience is key - get it right now and it will make all of your future training go much easier.

[CroPhi]

Pat Burns will have an online course "Bombproof Basics" available in the next couple months. When starting doubles use white bumpers that the dog can see. Keep them almost 180 degrees apart.