Monolithics vs Lead core (non bonded)

[Alberta Bigbore]

Really starting to think ill start retracting my statments as to not liking monolithics.
Ive used ttsx and Cx, all good results, no, didnt tip over anything off its feet, but they didnt go far, generally dropped a few under 30 yards or less away. I honestly think the CX mushrooms with more pedals and flatter surface.

Maybe some of us expect too much when shooting an animal thats 100 to 1200 pounds, with a tiny little light peice of copper. Ill throw myself under that bus

After shooting the other day on private land into a sandy back stop, i actually recovered some bullets. And made me wonder if i really want a bullet known to blow up to fly through the air at an animal of a lifetime

My 300wby is absolutley in love with Barnes 180gr TTSX. Like ridiculous. Had some fun , popped a few rounds just to say I did
While breaking in the barrel on the Mark V 7 mag, i recovered some bullets in the sand as well from both Norma Whitetail 150gr and Hornady ELD-X 162gr. I know its sand and not flesh, but wow did the TTSX hold up, imagine hitting every bone in a mooses body, youd have zero worry.

100yds, 180gr ttsx, 300wby wet sand








100yds, 162 gr ELD-X, 7mmrememag wet sand


free upload pic




100yds, 150gr Norma Whitetail, 7mmremmag wet sand







My most violent DRT moose kill was with an ELD-X 180gr out if a .300wm. Over 500 yards. But what if i hit heavy bone on entry, would i have been so lucky? I think ill give monolithics a good go. They are rarely recovered. And two holes is better than one, right?

These are the only two monolithics ive ever recovered

TTSX









Cx
















If you had to use the same bullet for the rest of your life, even if they all cost the same. What would it be? 😁


To be fair, ive used a few bonded bullets as well, and Partitions. And id use a Nosler Partition if any of my rifles liked factory offerings. But ill cross that bridge when i come to it and finish my reloading room and finish setting up. Ive got about 200pc count each in 30cal, .284/7mm, and .277 of Nosler Partitions, dying to get loaded.






.

[kingrat]

Mine would be the barnes lrx. It's the ttsx but opens easier. Everything from deer to moose in all our families guns and calibers.

[Twisted Canuck]

I've had good luck with Partitions and TTSX over the years. The 200 gr Trophy Bonded Tip I'm using in my .338 Federal is like a cross between those. I recovered one from my elk last year after a quartering shot, in front of shoulder, through chest cavity, broke last rib on off side and stopped on hide. Retained 190 grains, 95%, and expanded perfectly to .652"

That works for me, and I get very good accuracy with them. Glad I bought 12 boxes of same lot#. Set for life for hunting.

[sns2]

Boy, that’s a hard choice. I have had stellar success with Partitions, Barnes TTSX, Accubonds, and recently Trophy Bonded Tips. As a rule of thumb, no matter the bullet, including cup and core, if they end up in the right spot, the animal falls over in short order. If they end up in the wrong spot, generally things don’t end quite as well. Can never go wrong with a stout bullet. Sometimes the only shot is one that necessitates getting through some carcass and breaking bone. Cheap insurance I say.

[Dick284]

You gotta know the limitations of the bullets you are using, the 2700 fps impact velocity metric for cup/core bullets is darn hard to refute…..

I’m getting more and more sold on the Barnes LRX offerings as I dabble more and more with them, but when you’ve stocked up hard with bullets like Partition’s, Interlock’s and Ballistic Tips(yes I said it) it’s hard to justify messing with proven loads.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by J.B.

https://youtu.be/gopZ5gS1NdY?si=9VbX56e6hbFT4Lzw

https://youtu.be/bZoBhm81fx0?si=f06HLtQoMYEMAlIV

https://youtu.be/ShJed8XNjr8?si=hLmsm-6kVDsr9mRr

For the podcast guys, this series on cartridge/bullet selection was an intriguing listen to me. Can be found on any platform, i just copied youtube links.

Info from a guy who has literally been on thousands of kills, if you are weighing the merits of copper vs lead, cup and core performance on bone ect. give it a listen. Tons of good info, I’ve listened to all 3 episodes twice already…

[Pathfinder76]

Private videos? Sounds about right.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Private videos? Sounds about right.

Thats odd…shouldn’t be…unless its been censored by youtube, that sounds about right lol

Ill try find an spotify link

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by J.B.

Thats odd…shouldn’t be…unless its been censored by youtube, that sounds about right lol

Ill try find an itunes link

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1qN...QGuDAq0niYrdog

This is episode 469, the first in the series. The other two are episode 470 and 479.

[brewster29]

If you had to use the same bullet for the rest of your life, even if they all cost the same. What would it be? 😁

I quit using conventional bullets around 1989. For many years I was a fan of partitions and Accubonds. Last eight years I have used some TTSX and more LRX. The four LRX I have recovered (all from 6 point bull elk) all look exactly like the advertisement. Ranges are from 30 to 400 yards.

[brewster29]

[QUOTE=brewster29;4758997]If you had to use the same bullet for the rest of your life, even if they all cost the same. What would it be? 😁

I quit using conventional bullets around 1989. For many years I was a fan of partitions and Accubonds. Last eight years I have used some TTSX and more LRX. The four LRX I have recovered (all from 6 point bull elk) all look exactly like the advertisement. Ranges are from 30 to 400 yards. I can’t see any reason not to use them forever. /QUOTE]

[Smokinyotes]

That’s a tough question but I can tell you what it wouldn’t be is a ELDX.

[Pathfinder76]

Shot a coyote face on this morning with a monolithic bullet. I cannot begin to understand why people think they don’t expand or cause damage.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Shot a coyote face on this morning with a monolithic bullet. I cannot begin to understand why people think they don’t expand or cause damage.

The problem is hunters think they need 180 grain 30 cals in their 30-06 to kill anything, then run those 180’s at a dismal 2600 fps, and expect carnage like a cup and core bullet would give on a 250 or 300 yard shot. TSX/TTSX need ~2000 fps for good expansion.

Nobody gets that a cup and core bullet even a Partition is designed to give 65% weight retention so in effect a 180 may only result in a bullet weighing somewhere around 120 grains when all is said and done. While a Monolithics will come in closer to 100% weight retention.

The reality being you can shed 20-25% of bullet weight in a monolithic bullet and expect similar on game performance to a cup/core bullet. So if you like 180’s in your 30/06, try some 150’s in a monolithic……Barnes talked to this in their earlier reloading manuals, but we all know nobody reads the front chapters in a reloading manual.

So much maligning of Ballistic Tips and Gamekings on the interweb for on game performance, yet the Berger and ELD fanboys champion rapid expansion and “energy dump” it follows zero logic frankly….

[catnthehat]

So much maligning of Ballistic Tips and Gamekings on the interweb for on game performance, yet the Berger and ELD fanboys champion rapid expansion and “energy dump” it follows zero logic frankly….[/QUOTE]

It never made much sense to me either.
I talk to people at the range regularly who want the highest velocity they can get, then put a muzzle brake on their rifle because they can't handle the recoil of their high dollar custom built ultralight hunting rig and complain about cup and core bullets breaking up - yet they don't want to spend the money for H mantel or monometal bullets!!
Cat

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The problem is hunters think they need 180 grain 30 cals in their 30-06 to kill anything, then run those 180’s at a dismal 2600 fps, and expect carnage like a cup and core bullet would give on a 250 or 300 yard shot. TSX/TTSX need ~2000 fps for good expansion.

Nobody gets that a cup and core bullet even a Partition is designed to give 65% weight retention so in effect a 180 may only result in a bullet weighing somewhere around 120 grains when all is said and done. While a Monolithics will come in closer to 100% weight retention...

The 200 gr Trophy Bonded Tips I run from my .338 Federal are only getting a 'dismal' 2640 fps launch, yet they seem to expand not too bad and get the job done. Recoil is quite tame for my arthritic shoulder, which was my main point in that cartridge choice. Choosing the right bullet for the cartridge and game and distance you are competent to shoot at will give a lot of different answers on what will work. There are countless good options, and also some bad ones.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

The 200 gr Trophy Bonded Tips I run from my .338 Federal are only getting a 'dismal' 2640 fps launch, yet they seem to expand not too bad and get the job done. Recoil is quite tame for my arthritic shoulder, which was my main point in that cartridge choice. Choosing the right bullet for the cartridge and game and distance you are competent to shoot at will give a lot of different answers on what will work. There are countless good options, and also some bad ones.

Yet the Trophy Bonded Tip has a conventional lead construction up front, so I’m certain the minimum velocity is quite a bit lower than a TSX.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

It never made much sense to me either.
I talk to people at the range regularly who want the highest velocity they can get, then put a muzzle brake on their rifle because they can't handle the recoil of their high dollar custom built ultralight hunting rig and complain about cup and core bullets breaking up - yet they don't want to spend the money for H mantel or monometal bullets!!
Cat

I hear a different story, they have a high velocity cartridge, and a brake, and a high magnification scope, and they won't use any bullet that doesn't have a very high B.C. , which leaves out the monometal bullets.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I hear a different story, they have a high velocity cartridge, and a brake, and a high magnification scope, and they won't use any bullet that doesn't have a very high B.C. , which leaves out the monometal bullets.

yup, and in both instances, in the end there is no balance .
Cat

[fps plus]

Something that puts a hole in vitals isn’t going to be good for the creature , spear , arrow , knife , bullets etc is gonna work .

The debate on bullets will go on forever and a persons experience will form their opinion .

[J.B.]

I think we need to start picking a bullet before a cartridge. Which bullet produces the terminal results Im after? Ok, now how fast does it need to go to consistently achieve that result? Ok, now which cartridge can produce that velocity at the range I want to hunt at? And can I manage the recoil of said cartridge/rifle combo to be consistently accurate in field positions?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The problem is hunters think they need 180 grain 30 cals in their 30-06 to kill anything, then run those 180’s at a dismal 2600 fps, and expect carnage like a cup and core bullet would give on a 250 or 300 yard shot. TSX/TTSX need ~2000 fps for good expansion.

Nobody gets that a cup and core bullet even a Partition is designed to give 65% weight retention so in effect a 180 may only result in a bullet weighing somewhere around 120 grains when all is said and done. While a Monolithics will come in closer to 100% weight retention.

The reality being you can shed 20-25% of bullet weight in a monolithic bullet and expect similar on game performance to a cup/core bullet. So if you like 180’s in your 30/06, try some 150’s in a monolithic……Barnes talked to this in their earlier reloading manuals, but we all know nobody reads the front chapters in a reloading manual.

So much maligning of Ballistic Tips and Gamekings on the interweb for on game performance, yet the Berger and ELD fanboys champion rapid expansion and “energy dump” it follows zero logic frankly….

This is pretty spot on. I will add that we seem to be going back in time. John Nosler had issues with C&C bullets on a Canadian moose over 75 years ago. He thought that there had to be a better mousetrap. Now the trend is 1940’s technology. Like we are revolutionizing bullet technology all over again.

I’ve shot the most game with Nosler ballistic tips and mono metals. They do different things to game. But I prefer the latter in most situations.

[Mayhem42]

250 SGK, they clover leaf at 200 from my 340.
I’ve followed up on alot of animals hit with mono or bonded.
Placement and working with in the bullets functional velocity is important.
Delivering energy into the animal is a plus from my POV, so I’ve used partitions, SGK, and Grand Slams a lot.
Nothing against the mono crowd, just not my thing when follow up shooting animals hit with them…

[elkhunter11]

I have used Solid Base, Ballistic Tips, Partitions, Accubonds and various monometals, and Jensen bullets, but if I have to depend on one bullet these days, it will be a monometal. I want a bullet that will work in a worst case scenario, not just ideal scenarios.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

This is pretty spot on. I will add that we seem to be going back in time. John Nosler had issues with C&C bullets on a Canadian moose over 75 years ago. He thought that there had to be a better mousetrap. Now the trend is 1940’s technology. Like we are revolutionizing bullet technology all over again.

I’ve shot the most game with Nosler ballistic tips and mono metals. They do different things to game. But I prefer the latter in most situations.

The thing to keep in mind is that bullet length (weight) is a huge component of terminal performance. When a c&c bullet impacts tissue it begins to fragment from the front once the tip breaks off (hpbt) or initiates expansion (eldm/x ect.). The bullet then sheds weight from the front as it penetrates tissue. The longer (heavier) the bullet is, the more material it can shed and still have a heavy base to continue driving through tissue.

If you take a 6.5mm eldm in 100 and 147 grains the terminal result will be very different. Same bullet design, different length. The 100 grain will act like a varmint bullet. The 147 will penetrate far deeper. Which is why guys hunting with eldm bullets are almost universally shooting the heaviest option available.

I have personally gotten, and witnessed from others, many many exit wounds from berger hybrids and elite hunters. Again always long, heavy for caliber bullets, shot from ranges of point blank to 600+.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Mayhem42

250 SGK, they clover leaf at 200 from my 340.
I’ve followed up on alot of animals hit with mono or bonded.
Placement and working with in the bullets functional velocity is important.
Delivering energy into the animal is a plus from my POV, so I’ve used partitions, SGK, and Grand Slams a lot.
Nothing against the mono crowd, just not my thing when follow up shooting animals hit with them…

I don’t understand this and honestly don’t believe it. I’ve shot 100 plus head of big game with mono metal bullets and following up to finish them off has never happened. My brother shoots them, my dad shoots them, my hunting partner shoots them and none of them have that problem either.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Yet the Trophy Bonded Tip has a conventional lead construction up front, so I’m certain the minimum velocity is quite a bit lower than a TSX.

Oh for sure, that's one of the main reasons I picked it over a mono. That was kind of what I was saying, probably poorly....choose the right bullet cartridge combo, lots of good options, also poor ones. Match the bullet style to the velocity/range/game.

Edit: I also was trying to illustrate that large heavy bullets at moderate velocity and recoil are still perfectly effective on game, lots of energy delivered.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Oh for sure, that's one of the main reasons I picked it over a mono. That was kind of what I was saying, probably poorly....choose the right bullet cartridge combo, lots of good options, also poor ones. Match the bullet style to the velocity/range/game.

Edit: I also was trying to illustrate that large heavy bullets at moderate velocity and recoil are still perfectly effective on game, lots of energy delivered.

I’m an aficionado of the .358 Win, so there’s no need to illustrate much on the moderate but broad department.

Matching bullets to cartridge performance is a must, look at what my kids have done with boring 7mm, 139gr BTSP Hornady’s at and around that 2600-2700fps range…..

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Shot a coyote face on this morning with a monolithic bullet. I cannot begin to understand why people think they don’t expand or cause damage.

What in hell is this, what does one person on this planet benefit from a splat road kill scent . Nothing.

You can shot a yote in the face with the worst bullet out there in 7mm RM and make this mess, is this one of your favorite yearly pics .

Plenty of nice pics in the hunting section, but you never comment on there great hunt or there skill or wish them the best in there hunt , none that I have seen yet you post this crap that you think is bullet power . I wouldn't photo that if you paid me let alone post it .

Most guys who take bullets seriously do know they work ,but some others don't feel the need to over qualify there choice specially with BS pics of a bloody mess of whatever . very weird ,you posted it god only knows why. Maybe take out your favorite knife and put it besides these enema you created .

[catnthehat]

It's simple actually, and as my father said, it's all about balance .
If a person insists on shooting a partricular bullet for the best advantage of that particular bullet - cast monometal type, cup and core or bonded , they need to look at their velocity parameters .

Cat