Bow Fish Creek Area: Frustrating Experience

[YYCFish]

So over the past two weekends, I have been spincasting at the right side of the Bow river.

From 22X to Water treatment plant, I probably been to 6 different spots, walking upstream and downstream on the shore.

Used the following lures.
- Panther Martin (Gold)(Silver)
- Rapala F7 Brown Trout (Floating)
- Rapala F7 Brown Trout (Sinking)
- Five diamond spoon
- Little Cleo (Red/Gold)

- Beadhead Pheasant Tail
- Used with bubble float to tie other fly lures

With today's trip, it is 5th time I leave empty handed. It's been frustrating as I haven't even got a bite yet.

Today was the most promising day though. I probably saw about 20-30 feedings on surface from 5:00 to 6:00 pm.

I am wondering if anyone can help me out with type of lures and rigs for trout in Bow. With frequent jumpings I witnessed today, I am thinking of getting lures that floats on surface.

From a hopeless fisherman,

[Crankbait]

what type of water have you been focusing on?

[YYCFish]

Hi I have been fishing on pools where current slows down but it becomes fairly deep.

For example, I fish just upstream of where fish creek meets the river. SE of the cafe and the restaurant.

[Dragless]

Just because they breach the surface doesn't mean they are eating off the surface they could be shooting up from the bottom to eat something above them and break the surface with the extra momentum they don't have breaks. This happens a lot when they are eating boatman. Good luck ,

[Bemoredog]

Originally Posted by Dragless

Just because they breach the surface doesn't mean they are eating off the surface they could be shooting up from the bottom to eat something above them and break the surface with the extra momentum they don't have breaks. This happens a lot when they are eating boatman. Good luck ,

Came here to say this. I've seen this many times but it can be tough to tell the difference. If it's later in the season when there are fewer hatches there's a good chance they are feeding just subsurface. Likewise, if you don't actually see anything on the surface or an ongoing hatch, likely subsurface. Also, if you've been fishing a few different flies on the surface with no takes, the fish are probably subsurface.

You could try a smaller size of Rapala, but a 7 should still get you some action from the larger bows and browns of all sizes. Raps that look like other trout or whitefish are good choices.

With the Bow I've had the most luck using bloodworm/wireworms size 14 to 18. I often fish 2 nymphs and 1 bloodworm, or 1 nymph and 1 bloodworm. I use an indicator. Sometimes I'll add a small split shot depending on current and depth. And I usually thoroughly fish a spot for at least 15 minutes before moving on.

Since you're spin fishing I would suggest getting a couple slip bobbers. I prefer the one's with the added weights on them to assist in casting. Get a very light one, and then a size just above that. Pick up some bobber stoppers like these http://tinyurl.com/jc2nm2b Place the bobber stop on your line first, then the slip bobber. Then tie on your nymphs, wire worms, whatever. Adjust the bobber stop to achieve your desired depth. I've used this set up before with good success.

Hopefully you're not already doing this and this is of some help.

edit: you can still use your floating bubble for casting flies, but a coloured slip bobber is better for subsurface in my experience. Easier to see, and more sensitive to takes. I still find using a floating bubble for flies on moving water challenging however. For still water they're great. But casting surface flies with a fly fishing setup seems to work best because of easier presentation and control of drag. Again, just my experience.

[RavYak]

I am guessing that you are using too large of lures, not sure what size spoons/spinners you are using though.

The fish may be deeper in the water column, most of those lures will retrieve in the top couple feet unless you are retrieving them extremely slow in which case the action is often compromised. Usually fish hang out at the bottom and when they are surfacing usually they are targeting something specific so unless you can match the hatch casting at said fish is usually not productive.

Unless they are browns or big rainbows you will also have limited success using minnow lures like rapalas, spoons, spinners. Some of those lures work decent on overstocked ponds full of starving rainbows but I find they are usually less effective in more natural settings unless you use the smallest sized ones but then they are tough to cast and don't go deep enough without added weights which usually messes up the action.

I would try out some more flies/nymphs, different depths and probably easiest way to consistently catch fish is to get into fly fishing and find someone that knows how to fish the bow to give you some pointers.

[YYCFish]

Thank you all for insights and suggestions.

Most of the time, my lures were 2-4 feet below the surface depending on the lure I attached. My cast is about 40-60 degree upstream from the shore with 15-20 yards distance.

When I saw the surface action in one spot yesterday evening, I switched among sinking rapala, two wet flies (Bead head Pheasant tail and other I forgot the name), and floating rapala. Think I stayed there about 45 minutes.

Dragless: My wet flies and sinking rapalas didn't attract any of them at all. As I know close to nothing about the Bow and its insects species, are boatman something that are active this time of the year (or all year round)?

Bemoredog: I should attach the lures you suggested. Will need to buy them from the shop. When I cast, I used something like this:
http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/eagl.../0000000240266

I fill 50-70% of the bubble with water and move it along my mainline before twisting the top and fixate it. The bubble stays on surface unless it's completely full with water. When you use the lures you mentioned, do you let them drag the bottom or let them swim in the middle of water?

RavYak
I've been using size 2 panther martins and C140 Little cleo. Most of my lures mimics minnows as you pointed out. Thinking I should try more variety of flies with my spingear and bubble float. If that doesn't bring some catch, guess I will be learning fly fishing next spring.

Once again thanks everyone for input. I will have to try other lures and methods.

[Bemoredog]

Originally Posted by RavYak

I am guessing that you are using too large of lures, not sure what size spoons/spinners you are using though.

This is what I thought at first too, but it seems like there's a decent chunk of guys tossing Rap's on the Bow and doing quite well. Floaters and countdowns. It seems like sizes 1 to 3 are most popular, in which case an ultra light spinning outfit with braided main line is going to be required to cast these any appreciable distance.

That said, there are usually plenty of fish along the banks of the Bow so long casts aren't always necessary. Short and accurate works just as well. Again, in my experience.

Originally Posted by RavYak

The fish may be deeper in the water column.

Agree with this. The Bow can be pretty fast in some places. If the current is faster than walking speed the fish will be down deep where the current is slower. For wild trout, I've only fished rapalas for Bulls successfully. I've thrown a few rapalas into the Bow with little luck and mainly just to goof around. I've caught bulls and whitefish on small 1/8 panther martin gold and black spinners in the highwood, and cutties in the old man (they actually have an even smaller 1/16 lure!). I think the key with these kinds of lures is to find actively feeding or territorial fish. And there is a technique to fishing them, but you'll have to get that from others who use them regularly. For small streams and rivers I find these kinds of lures fine, even preferable to a fly kit sometimes. But in the Bow they just don't feel right--the thing is I know they work since I've seen guys pull monsters out using them.

[dodger]

Dont cast upstream. Cast at a 90 to the shreline so yuor pulling in the lure with current to give it action.

Dodger

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by YYCFish

Thank you all for insights and suggestions.

Most of the time, my lures were 2-4 feet below the surface depending on the lure I attached. My cast is about 40-60 degree upstream from the shore with 15-20 yards distance.

When I saw the surface action in one spot yesterday evening, I switched among sinking rapala, two wet flies (Bead head Pheasant tail and other I forgot the name), and floating rapala. Think I stayed there about 45 minutes.

Dragless: My wet flies and sinking rapalas didn't attract any of them at all. As I know close to nothing about the Bow and its insects species, are boatman something that are active this time of the year (or all year round)?

Bemoredog: I should attach the lures you suggested. Will need to buy them from the shop. When I cast, I used something like this:
http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/eagl.../0000000240266

I fill 50-70% of the bubble with water and move it along my mainline before twisting the top and fixate it. The bubble stays on surface unless it's completely full with water. When you use the lures you mentioned, do you let them drag the bottom or let them swim in the middle of water?

RavYak
I've been using size 2 panther martins and C140 Little cleo. Most of my lures mimics minnows as you pointed out. Thinking I should try more variety of flies with my spingear and bubble float. If that doesn't bring some catch, guess I will be learning fly fishing next spring.

Once again thanks everyone for input. I will have to try other lures and methods.

And how deep is the water? Fish usually are on the bottom so if it is 8-10 feet in that spot then you are asking the fish to come up 4-8 feet to strike your lure.

I have never used a bubble float, how sensitive are they? Trout often bite very lightly to the point where sometimes even the smallest indicators only slightly bobble and I am guessing a bubble float in current you might have trouble noticing some bites. Make sure you have it weighted so that it just barely floats I guess so you can more easily notice bites.

How deep are you putting your nymphs down is another question. I don't fish rivers but I do know you want your nymphs pretty much bouncing on bottom and in a big river like the bow I believe you have to use weight to achieve that.

Minnow type lures should catch some fish but they need to go deep enough to where the fish are and with spinners/spoons that usually means finding very slow water or shallower water.

I would use the find a fishing buddy post and see if you can't hook up with someone down there that knows what they are doing.

[jeek93]

I had some success fishing the same area over the weekend. My ticket was five of diamonds spoon retrieved very slowly. Slow enough to stay deep but not too slow to lose lure action. Buzz bomb was also getting some bites. I think the key at this time of year is to target the bottom. Good luck!

[YYCFish]

Bemoredog
I was able to cast the lure further than where the surface action occurred. The closest jump was like 6-7 feet from where I was standing. Felt like most pathetic and useless fisherman in the world. Also the pool where I saw the surface action was had slow current compared where I fished earlier that day.

Basing on the frequency of surface action, I presume the spot had territorial fish.


RavYak
As you pointed out, I think the depth of my lure was critical when I used wet flies, spoons, spinner, and sinking RAP. The pool I fished wasn't that deep, 4-6 feet is my guess based on the reeling speed.

My lures ranged from 2-4 feet from the bubble which stayed on the surface.

Regarding the depth, I have question for you. How do you estimate depth of water without a heavy sinker on your line? Being a beginner I would like to know if there is general way to figure it out.


For my next outing, I will be there with more lures and will add some split shots between the bubble and lure. I will have to fill the bubble with water carefully to adjust its sensitivity. My retrieve speed should be slowed to allow the lure to sink as well.

Thank you all for tips. Hope I get lucky in near future.

[dodger]

Originally Posted by dodger

Dont cast upstream. Cast at a 90 to the shreline so yuor pulling in the lure with current to give it action.

Dodger

Looks like the keys on the laptop are starting to go

Dodger.

[Dragless]

Boatmen are an aquatic insect active all year but they do there mating flight during the fall and become a real favorite for the trout this time of year, trout will become selective if there is enough of one food source , if you can't match the hatch on these days you may see fish feeding all around you and not biting your offer this is by far the most frustrating part of trout fishing but if you happen to be able to match the hatch you can hook up on every single cast and that's the best part of trout fishing imo,

[Bemoredog]

Originally Posted by YYCFish

Thank you all for insights and suggestions.
Bemoredog: I should attach the lures you suggested. Will need to buy them from the shop. When I cast, I used something like this:
http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/eagl.../0000000240266

I fill 50-70% of the bubble with water and move it along my mainline before twisting the top and fixate it. The bubble stays on surface unless it's completely full with water. When you use the lures you mentioned, do you let them drag the bottom or let them swim in the middle of water?

I have used similar floats before. I have not personally had luck using them on rivers, only on lakes/ponds and with a dry fly or dry fly/nymph combo. I don't like using the clear floats for rivers because I find they aren't visible enough or sensitive enough to strikes. You want a very light bobber for this application. You can do it with a bubble float but you'll need to measure the amount of water in it precisely. Perhaps paint the top yellow or orange for visibility.

I try to keep the bottom nymph either just touching or bouncing bottom. The thing with the Bow is that a) it has weeds/deadwood to catch your tackle when you run it deep and b) the river's level will change over the course of a run. So while your lure might bounce bottom at the beginning, it might be suspended mid way through the run. All I can say it that this will take practice and experience to get a feel for where you're tackle is running and where it should be running.

One trick if you're hitting a lot of snags is to tie on two nymphs and then beneath the last nymph run a foot or two of line and crimp on a split shot weight (or two, or three). This will get your line down in the water column but if you catch a snag the weight will pull off.

Bottom Line: If I'm fishing an area that's rocky, I'll try to bounce or drag bottom with the lowest nymph. If it's weedy I'll try to run just over top of the weeds to avoid snags. You'll still have to play around with your setup depending where the fish are. I've generally found that the deeper the water, the bigger the fish. Again, generally, but not always.

Also I try to use tungsten nymphs whenever I can since this means I won't need to add as much weight with split shot to my line. Be careful when you're casting a 2 to 3 nymph rig. It can tangle easily. I find side arming works best. And you can achieve a drag free drift to help your hook ups. It's just not as easy as with a heavy fly line, pretty much the same principle though. Keep the line somewhat tight and lift the whole rod up and in the opposite direction of the drift.

[Anomaly85]

Originally Posted by YYCFish

So over the past two weekends, I have been spincasting at the right side of the Bow river.

From 22X to Water treatment plant, I probably been to 6 different spots, walking upstream and downstream on the shore.

Used the following lures.
- Panther Martin (Gold)(Silver)
- Rapala F7 Brown Trout (Floating)
- Rapala F7 Brown Trout (Sinking)
- Five diamond spoon
- Little Cleo (Red/Gold)

What size Gold\Silver Panther martin's are you using? I've had good success on the bow with #9 and #15, as well the Mepps Black Fury. Try varying your retrieval speed and keep in mind as the water is colder now, trout will be less keen to give chase (imo). And don't stay in one spot too long if nothing is happening

Don't feel bad about not catching anything on the bow right away. It took me around 10 trips before I caught my first bow rainbow. It takes a lot of walking and trial and error to find good spots.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by YYCFish

RavYak
As you pointed out, I think the depth of my lure was critical when I used wet flies, spoons, spinner, and sinking RAP. The pool I fished wasn't that deep, 4-6 feet is my guess based on the reeling speed.

My lures ranged from 2-4 feet from the bubble which stayed on the surface.

Regarding the depth, I have question for you. How do you estimate depth of water without a heavy sinker on your line? Being a beginner I would like to know if there is general way to figure it out.

I always scout spots with my kayak and fish finder so I know the depths. Obviously harder if you don't have a boat/fish finder though.

Easiest way to know how deep you are fishing is to see how much you have to slow down your retrieve before your lure starts hitting bottom.

Also when using your bubble you could add weights underneath then cast out and see when they start dragging, once you know the depth then raise it up 6-12 in(leave it lower if low chance of snags, higher up if high chance of snags).

[happyfisher]

easy solution......buy waders and a fly rod.......

[Bhflyfisher]

Originally Posted by YYCFish

Basing on the frequency of surface action, I presume the spot had territorial fish.

Feeding and Territorial responses are two different things. Fish on the surface are onto something that doesn't rattle, isn't flashy, and isn't hardware.

[YYCFish]

Dragless
This weekend, I will be asking fly fish store salesperson for boatmen lure, or something similar to it.

Bemoredog
Painting top part of the float with bright color is an excellent idea. With sunset coming earlier, I have been able to identify my float only when it is retrieved to 10 yard range from me. Any particular dry fly you would suggest at Bow at this time of the year. (I think fall season is officially over based on recent temperature)

Anomaly85
I have been throwing size 2 Panther Martins. Hope to catch one in the next few trips where I will be on SE of the city.

RavYak
As you and others suggested, it looks like split shots between the float and lure is a must now. I am thinking all my casts have resulted in the lure swimming in midway without touching the bottom. Maybe lengthening my lure a few more feet from the float and retrieving slowly will let me estimate the depth of the water.

Thank you all for valuable insights. I will update you all in case I catch something in future!

[Bemoredog]

Originally Posted by YYCFish

Any particular dry fly you would suggest at Bow at this time of the year. (I think fall season is officially over based on recent temperature)

If you want to catch a fish I'd probably avoid dry flies for now. There won't be many hatches except for the occasional midges (look like mosquitoes). A good midge imitation is between 18 and 24 and all black (Griffiths Gnat is my usual go to). I think this would be your best bet if you want to catch on the dry. Don't recommend it, but you might get lucky.

Most fish this time of year will be hugging bottom. I'd run a small chironomid or other nymph alongside a bloodworm/san juan worm.

Icky Fly Works' Winter Pack should give you some good ideas: http://www.ickyflyworks.ca/index.php?cPath=32

Streamers may work on warmer days.

[millsboy79]

Red wireworms / beaded san juan worms.

Two of the easiest flies to tie and you should never need anything else on the bow.

Till the next "good" hopper season hahaha

[YYCFish]

Bemoredog

Does the website has physical store where I can visit and ask questions?
I will be stocking my tackle box with the lures you suggested.

millsboy79
Will also buy the worm lures too. You have to drag the bottom with those lures right?

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by YYCFish

Bemoredog

Does the website has physical store where I can visit and ask questions?
I will be stocking my tackle box with the lures you suggested.

millsboy79
Will also buy the worm lures too. You have to drag the bottom with those lures right?

Yeah I am usually using a nice long leader with a few flies in sequence.

Something to think about as well is if you are spin casting flies with a slip bobber. Sometimes your flies are not heavy enough to over come the friction of the line passing through the bobber. And the longer the bobber the more friction.

The water bobbers might be harder to see but least you know how much line you have below it.

[Lazy Fisherguy]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

Red wireworms / beaded san juan worms.

Two of the easiest flies to tie and you should never need anything else on the bow.

Till the next "good" hopper season hahaha

i use a similar style/pattern, fish the bottom. works for me, no bobbers just weights.