Plowing with Lawn Tractor? Is it too much?

[Mulehahn]

A good friend of mine was doing some wiring at his church and I was there helping. We got to talking and the issue of yard/parking lot maintenance came up. The church is paying approximately $9000 to have the lawn mowed in the summer and parking lot cleared in the winter. We measured both out and both come out to just over a 1/4 acre. All the land is flat, parking lot is paved not gravel.

The thought was that a decent riding mower, like a John Deere 500/700 series with a plow would be able to do both and in two years it would pay for itself. He went and talked to a few dealerships and they said no, you need to buy a proper tractor for that which, with a mowing deck would be over price the price of a riding mower.

Does anyone plow with a riding mower? Needing a proper tractor seems like it would be overkill to mow 1/4 in the summer and plow a 1/4 acre in the winter but maybe I am wrong. If you do need a full tractor they won't do it as the space alone is too much but I am curious; is there a realistic reason for saying a commercial grade lawn tractor won't work or is it just about the sale?

[leo]

The problem you may run into is you can’t pile it very high pushing. A skid steer is better for large lots

[pikergolf]

Who is going to run said equipment?

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Looks like JD makes a blade for the 700 https://www.shopgreendealer.com/John...e-Package.html

As Leo said, you won't be able to pile it very high. You will probably need chains and extra weight as well.

ARG

[vinny]

The issue I see with a riding mower is what you are going to do with the snow at the end of each push. With a blade and very limited power, you’ll end up with snow you can’t pile, or you won’t even make a full push without running out of jam. Might be ok for light dustings, but a couple of decent snowfalls and you’ll be out of room in no time at the lot edges. We used skid steers for any commercial lots, when I did snow removal in Calgary back in my younger years.

[Tannerdog]

A good portion of that $9000 is man hours and something for profit. A regular riding mower and a 30-36" commercial snowblower would do the job, but someone has to put in the time to get it done. Volunteers from the church perhaps?

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Tannerdog

A good portion of that $9000 is man hours and something for profit. A regular riding mower and a 30-36" commercial snowblower would do the job, but someone has to put in the time to get it done. Volunteers from the church perhaps?

The trouble with volunteers is that everyone wants to run the equipment and no one wants to maintain it. There is no continuity and the equipment suffers.

[Dubious]

Don’t forget volunteers are considered employees under oh&s better review their insurance up and get their safety program it to snuff in case someone does something silly under direction of the church like plowing a parking lot with an incorrectly used lawn tractor and rolling it on them selves in an icy parking lot and takes them to court from an injury.

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/f6f8...2022-08-23.pdf

Your better off with your contractor or shopping around for a cheaper one if you want a better price.

[densa44]

It is the best in the long run.

[riden]

I live on a large acreage and have a long driveway to plow, along within a large parking area.


I plowed it for years with a quad. I’m not sure I would recommend a quad for a full sized parking lot. I definitely wouldn’t depend on a yard tractor. Apart from the lack of power, it lacks the speed to create the momentum necessary.

[huntinstuff]

Insurance and OHS and WCB will SLAUGHTER you if you have volunteers

If anyone gets hurt, or claims to be hurt, you will be selling the church to pay their claim

Not many insurance companies providing coverage for snow removal. Cooperators for one will not insure for snow removal. My son's rates went up 700% effectively putting his snow removal out of business.

It all sounds nice to have parishoners help and do stuff....until it goes sideways......

[riden]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Insurance and OHS and WCB will SLAUGHTER you if you have volunteers

If anyone gets hurt, or claims to be hurt, you will be selling the church to pay their claim

Not many insurance companies providing coverage for snow removal. Cooperators for one will not insure for snow removal. My son's rates went up 700% effectively putting his snow removal out of business.

It all sounds nice to have parishoners help and do stuff....until it goes sideways......

My friends Dad, broke his back after an accident shingling the churches roof.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by riden

My friends Dad, broke his back after an accident shingling the churches roof.

So what do they call that former church now?

[traderal]

So far all good advice. Best if one of the parishioners owns and operates the equipment as an act of charity. For snow removal you need a skid steer or compact 4wd tractor with bucket, blade, or blower. A lawn tractor will just sit there and spin it's little back tires as snow builds up and ice forms, just doesn't have enough weight or traction. Speaking of getting hurt, a young farmer was helping on the roof rafters of a 2 story church in the nearby town and he fell and got hurt real bad and couldn't work for 2 years. Family got little to no help from the church and 25 years later is still bitter about it.

[lannie]

I have until this winter, many commercial snow removal contracts over the last 6-7 years that generated approximately 30k/ month through the winter. With proper equipment, procedures and people the profits are skinny before insurance in previous years. This year the insurance went through the roof and I made the decision it just wasn't worth while.

The job you're looking at needs a skid steer and a sanding truck or the ability to sand. Truck for hauling skid steer, trailer for skid steer and all the commercial insurance(?) and registration(450.00 year). You need liability insurance and if the church lets you on their property without a WCB clearance letter they are making a large mistake. -If you hurt yourself on their property without WCB they are liable for your injuries.

If you are going to do that parking lot you best jump right in and try to make it worthwhile but call the insurance company first. That 9000.00 contract will make a nice first payment to them.

[KBF]

Cost of maintenance, fuel, someone to run it when needed and if ya have big storms, you may get the lot done just in time to do it again and again and again to keep up. Pay someone

[waldedw]

I know a guy that does landscaping in the summer and snow removal in the winter, he belongs to a church and does their parking lot at sort of a donation to the church, they pay him fuel and wages only.
If someone in you church group has equipment that could do something like this that would be the way to go. Trust me the do it yourself gig with volunteers will get old in a hurry, as will buying and maintaining the equipment and everything that goes along with it.

[Mulehahn]

Thanks everyone. All good advice. I really appreciate it. A commercial mower actually weighs the sane and has more HP than the recommended compact tractors so I didn't understand why it wouldn't work.

The labour and insurance aspect is a separate issue and one none of us considered. Everyone is always helpful on here much appreciated

[skidderman]

Lawn tractor won't cut it. Not even close.

[ghfalls]

At $750 per month nobody is getting rich. Just hoping it doesn’t snow so all they gotta do is show up in a half ton with a leaf blower and some ice melt.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

Thanks everyone. All good advice. I really appreciate it. A commercial mower actually weighs the sane and has more HP than the recommended compact tractors so I didn't understand why it wouldn't work.

The labour and insurance aspect is a separate issue and one none of us considered. Everyone is always helpful on here much appreciated

I would bet the biggest lawn tractor weighs a couple hundred pounds less than the smallest compact tractor actually. And the biggest lawn tractor may produce 2-4 HP more than the smallest compact tractor does, but the lawn tractor is using gas and the compact tractor is using diesel. The lawn tractor may have more HP but i bet the smaller diesel is producing double to triple the torque. And torque accomplishes work, not HP.

I use a lawn tractor with a snow blower and traction is the biggest hurdle. If you are dead set on trying, get the blower over the plow. If ground conditions remain favourable the blower on my little tractor is rather impressive. Also, anything packed is a no-go.

[HyperMOA]

Oh and 4x4 with a ground grip compared to RWD with a turf tire.

[graybeard]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

So what do they call that former church now?

BINGO hall......

Seriously though; all great points especially the OH&S consideration and insurance costs.....

[Big Grey Wolf]

Blade on front of pickup only way to go. Nice and warm in Cab listening to CFCW country music. PS You can pile up banks to 7 feet high with truck and job will be finished in few minutes.

[Stinky Buffalo]

For decades we cleared our church parking lot with a JD 140. It had three hydraulic circuits and was a really solid machine.

We had the dual-stage snowblower head. Chains on the back for traction. Worked just fine. We also had the shovel attachment (which was rarely used, except for leveling gravel for some projects) .

Only issues were that in extreme cold the hydraulics would freeze up.

In the summer, we'd put on the mowing deck and use it to maintain the lawn at the church camp.

In more recent years the work is being farmed out - partly due to the aging demographic, and also because none of the people who volunteer live in that neighbourhood.

x2 on the issues with maintenance. People will put things back in a broken state and neglect to let you know. We have been lucky, we had several people that were handy with machines that would chip in to help keep stuff running.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Who is going to run said equipment?

Jesus take the wheel..

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Jesus take the wheel..

That requires a much deserved LOL

[traderal]

You mentioned using a commercial mower. I bought a slightly used City of Edmonton JD 1545 front mount mower, 31hp diesel, 4wd, with cab, 17 years ago, and adapted my own 72 inch snowblower. I mow 5 acres of lawn and clean snow off the entire farmyard in winter plus my brothers yard. Amazing piece of equipment and best of all unlike a zero turn it has a steering wheel.