Fenced Bison Hunts

Originally Posted by gopher

Wow you guys sure are opinionated on fenced hunts I guess most of you guys will not be going to hunt Africa then. I am pretty sure you guys would be chicken to go and pet a buffalo. Keep yapping away you bunch of arm chair hunters.

Just got back a month ago actually.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by savagencounter

Quick question if the animal is 2500lbs after it is cut and wrapped how much meat would you have approxÉ

I'd say approxE 2500lbs

Originally Posted by delburnedave

I'd say approxE 2500lbs

LOL....missed that one....good catch!

[Bobby B.]

TJ, in a roundabout way, everything goes hand in hand. One would be thought of as naive to think otherwise. Let's not confuse the issue on the grounds that you have something to say about a related topic, let's stick to the the topic, one which questions whether or not hunting bison at Tatonka Flats is, indeed, hunting. I'm fully aware of your abilty to initiate a thread.

In addition, please quote where I stated my support for hunting deer and elk behind fences in Alberta. Further, don't be so arrogant as to state what I support intentionally or unintentionally. I'll decide that for myself, and share the results as I feel fit. I seriously doubt I require your assistance. Perhaps you require mine. If so, let me know and I'll do my best to organize your thoughts into concise messages.

If there's something I've written of which you're confused or uncertain about, simply request clarification and I'll strive to present concepts in a more comprehensible manner.

BTW, I strongly doubt you're the only Albertan interested in protecting our wild populations. Do you truly believe otherwise?

Bobby B.

[savagencounter]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

I'd say approxE 2500lbs

woops i meant to ask if the animal was 2500 before cleaned approx how much meat would you end up with cut and wrapped.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You really don't understand much about politics do you?

Do a search and read the thoughts of Val Geist or Darrel Rowledge on the subject of disease transmission and come back a tell me that game farms are no danger to wild ungulate populations.

Too funny, you trusting the government so much in their licencing of game farms that it has to be okay........ You crack me up some times.

LOL im the first person to admit I know nothing about politics and to me reading someone elses though doesnt get me any closer to the facts.

As far as you go Gopher. Both me and sheephunter have posted enough pics on this forum to prove we know a little bit about hunting.

Sorry Bobby, that was one of those royal "yous" speaking in general terms, not aimed at anyone in particular, just those that support game farms.....it definitely wasn't aimed at you. I have no idea as to your thoughts on game farming and wouldn't be so arrogant as to assume I did. I reread my post and can see how you thought that was my intent but it most certainly wasn't

BTW, I strongly doubt you're the only Albertan interested in protecting our wild populations. Do you truly believe otherwise?

I strongly doubt it as well and hence the reason I took offence to SG implying that no one had any facts to form and informed opinion. I think there are loads of people on here with enough facts and passion to form and informed opinion.....I have no doubt you are included.

Sorry again for the misunderstanding but my comment was general and most definitely not directed toward you.

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

LOL im the first person to admit I know nothing about politics and to me reading someone elses though doesnt get me any closer to the facts.

As far as you go Gopher. Both me and sheephunter have posted enough pics on this forum to prove we know a little bit about hunting.

Geist and Rowledge are known as experts on the subject. Their 'thoughts' are very valid to the argument and are based largely on facts and facts alone. If you want to have good 'proof' you need look no further than some of their writing to get some information.

[Bobby B.]

Sheep, no problemo amigo.

I want to personally thank savagencounter for injecting a little humour. I believe it was a great blooper at the perfect time. Kinda served to litenup da mood.

respectfully,
Bobby B.

[gopher]

I suggest that sheephunter and sheepguide only hunt with spears as there skill far exceeds all other hunters in alberta

Originally Posted by gopher

I suggest that sheephunter and sheepguide only hunt with spears as there skill far exceeds all other hunters in alberta

LOL.....no extra skill, more dumb luck and good friends with skill, and I've got no issues with a guy that shoots animals behind a fence and I understand the unique management issues in other parts of the world where hunt farms are more common. I just feel that deer and elk farms are a ticking time bomb in Alberta strictly for the disease and habitat issues.......I've got no comment on someone else's hunting ethics that chooses to shoot behind a fence.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Geist and Rowledge are known as experts on the subject. Their 'thoughts' are very valid to the argument and are based largely on facts and facts alone. If you want to have good 'proof' you need look no further than some of their writing to get some information.

I never said they werent valid all i ment was Thoughts arent documented proof. Sorry if this offended you guys. And for the record I am against game farming to a point. We have 15-20 elk farms within 50 kms of Caroline and with no signs or proof that is affecting our wild elk herds, that can be veiwed walking beside or sparring though these elk fences. Again these are JMO's

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by gopher

Wow you guys sure are opinionated on fenced hunts I guess most of you guys will not be going to hunt Africa then. I am pretty sure you guys would be chicken to go and pet a buffalo. Keep yapping away you bunch of arm chair hunters.

Gopher, there is plenty of hunting in Africa with out High fences. Have you actually done any reaserch or are you just mouthing off?

I for one do not plan on hunting behind High fences when I get to Africa.

As for peting the Buff.. I also dont plan on petting Molly the cow. So whats your point?

Jamie

I never said they werent valid all i ment was Thoughts arent documented proof. Sorry if this offended you guys. And for the record I am against game farming to a point. We have 15-20 elk farms within 50 kms of Caroline and with no signs or proof that is affecting our wild elk herds, that can be veiwed walking beside or sparring though these elk fences. Again these are JMO's

You might want to read what Geist and Rowledge have to say.....lol....it's a bit more than thoughts. I'm done with this ......I'm not sure how to respond to your "if I can't see it" it doesn't exist logic. Thank god the world is still flat!

[elkhunter11]

I never said they werent valid all i ment was Thoughts arent documented proof. Sorry if this offended you guys. And for the record I am against game farming to a point. We have 15-20 elk farms within 50 kms of Caroline and with no signs or proof that is affecting our wild elk herds, that can be veiwed walking beside or sparring though these elk fences. Again these are JMO's

And some people still insist that it hasn't been proven that smoking can cause lung problems such as cancer.

[sheepguide]

thanks for the Debate Maybe you should be a politician you seem to have wat it takes

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

I never said they werent valid all i ment was Thoughts arent documented proof. Sorry if this offended you guys. And for the record I am against game farming to a point. We have 15-20 elk farms within 50 kms of Caroline and with no signs or proof that is affecting our wild elk herds, that can be veiwed walking beside or sparring though these elk fences. Again these are JMO's

No offense taken at all, but you asked for proof and Sheephunter is giving your names of two people who are experts on the subject and have written several items on the subject. This is not 'drummed up' random thoughts. It is writing supported by scientific proof. Not sure what else a guy could ask for....

Trust me...its worth reading if you havent. It opened my eyes BIG TIME when I started to look at it with an open mind.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And some people still insist that it hasn't been proven that smoking can cause lung diseases such as cancer.

just a question. With all these diseases that the game farms have, if it was hurting our wlid herds wouldnt our farmland elk be suffering or dieing off instead of increasing. If you have any info on this id like to see it.

[saskbuffaloguy]

Originally Posted by savagencounter

woops i meant to ask if the animal was 2500 before cleaned approx how much meat would you end up with cut and wrapped.

Bison from my farm usually yield between 52 and 57 percent of carcass weight.
So a 2500# Bison @55% should yield around 1375 pounds Hot Hanging weight. The head, hide and guts really add up.
The CBA website states that slaughter bulls avg. $1.30/pound
So ..1375 HHW@ $1.30/lb works out to $1787 and change
So the farmer running the ranch isn't getting overly rich considering he provides lodging, food and transportation, but at the end of the day I guess he ens up with some jingle in his jeans.Which these days nobody can really complain about.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

No offense taken at all, but you asked for proof and Sheephunter is giving your names of two people who are experts on the subject and have written several items on the subject. This is not 'drummed up' random thoughts. It is writing supported by scientific proof. Not sure what else a guy could ask for....

Trust me...its worth reading if you havent. It opened my eyes BIG TIME when I started to look at it with an open mind.

Thanks for the clarification on "thoughts" and "scientific proof".

[elkhunter11]

just a question. With all these diseases that the game farms have, if it was hurting our wlid herds wouldnt our farmland elk be suffering or dieing off instead of increasing. If you have any info on this id like to see it.

http://www.vetscite.org/publish/items/000528/index.html

From that link.

In 1996, CWD was found on an elk ranch in Saskatchewan in Canada, and since then the disease has turned up on more than a dozen ranches as far south as Oklahoma. All the infected herds have been destroyed, along with herds on farms identified as having received elk from them. Last October, after the disease appeared in herds belonging to one of the largest suppliers of elk in Colorado, the US Department of Agriculture authorised $2.6 million in emergency spending to keep the disease under surveillance and to compensate affected ranchers.

But in February, routine screening of white-tail deer killed by hunters turned up three infected animals in central Wisconsin, 800 miles east of the closest previously known case. Wildlife officials immediately began culling 500 more deer from the area for testing. By 5 April, nine more cases had been found with about half the testing done.

Lying in the opposite direction from the region where the disease is endemic, the Rocky Mountains had been considered a natural barrier to its westward spread. But in late March and early April, Colorado's Division of Wildlife found two infected mule deer west of the mountains.

Although the deer were wild, they were within the confines of a fence erected in July around a 1,500-acre ranch. Farm-raised elk brought to the ranch in August are a possible source of infection, although that would require a surprisingly rapid transmission, says Todd Malmsbury, chief spokesman for the division. Tests now under way on the elk and on 300 deer culled from outside the fence should reveal whether CWD has truly breached the Rockies.

Ranching has almost certainly contributed to the spread of CWD. The elk industry exploded in the early 1990s when the animal's velvet antlers, valued in traditional Asian medicine, began to attract prices of up to $200 a kilogram on the international market. Ranchers in the United States and Canada then began to keep the animals in large numbers. Long-distance rapid transport of commercial elk is speeding the spread of a disease that moved slowly among wild animals, Malmsbury says.

Because the only definitive test for CWD is an examination of the brain stem, surveillance programmes rely on samples from slaughtered or hunted animals, and infected herds are often spotted only after some members have been shipped away. Although it is possible to trace sales of live elk, some states have only recently started requiring ranchers to keep such records. Other states, such as Iowa, operate no surveillance of CWD.

[fish-man]

Sheephunter would have better info than would if he's just gotten back from hunting Africa, but there is both fenced and unfenced hunting available. Some farms simply offer hunting for the naturally occuring, free ranging wild life, while others bring and fence in animals. Many of the hunting farms are vast and contain many different species of wildlife. Some of the wildlife that is able to jump the fences (such as kudu) or crawl under them (such as warthogs) is free-ranging, while others are onfined to their enclosures. Natural predators such as cheetah and leopard also go through the fences with ease. I dunno if I'd consider it "fair chase" hunting or not but it's definitely not tame- or even semi-tame animals. In fact they're quite spooky from gettting shot at

Ya, our hunt was totally free range in a communal concession but there are lots of both types of fenced ranches in Africa. I wasn't aware that many of the antelope species can't even jump a 4-foot fence so as you pointed out, it doesn't have to be high fenced to be fenced. We did hunt a couple cattle ranches with unique fencing. The posts that were driven in the ground were about 60 feet apart and there were small posts stapled to the wire in between. It allowed bigger species like gemsbok to simply slide their neck under it, lift their head and going under it was a breeze. It's my understanding that only kudu, eland, impalla and waterbuck will jump a 4' fence...the remainder of the antelope species are confined unless there is provisions for them to crawl under. Even zebra won't go over a fence.

[saskbuffaloguy]

Elk Hunter,
CWD is a very real problem, but it has nothing to with farmed or wild bison, or with fenced bison hunts.

[Tuc]

It's getting deep in here.

I just feel that deer and elk farms are a ticking time bomb in Alberta strictly for the disease and habitat issues.......

Hmmm, what about the deer and elk farms in the good old U S of A. So, you won't participate in a fenced hunt in Alberta (so you say) but it's ok to do so in the U.S.

I've been looking through the archives but I guess alot of the old threads and posts from years back were lost when they built the new AO website......

[elkhunter11]

CWD is a very real problem, but it has nothing to with farmed or wild bison, or with fenced bison hunts.

I was responding to

just a question. With all these diseases that the game farms have, if it was hurting our wlid herds wouldnt our farmland elk be suffering or dieing off instead of increasing. If you have any info on this id like to see it.

[saskbuffaloguy]

True enough.
My bad

[saskbuffaloguy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I was responding to

Just out of curiousity.What is the legal status of game farms in Alberta? I have no idea, and am not trying to toss AvGas on the fire.

Originally Posted by Tuc

It's getting deep in here.

Hmmm, what about the deer and elk farms in the good old U S of A. So, you won't participate in a fenced hunt in Alberta (so you say) but it's ok to do so in the U.S.

I've been looking through the archives but I guess alot of the old threads and posts from years back were lost when they built the new AO website......

Not a clue what you are yacking about Tuc.....nothing new there. Rather than the criptic messages, feel free to ask rather than accuse....I'm an open book.

Actually I said I've never hunted behind a fence...shot a few hogs in Alberta...wouldn't call it hunting though....more like bullet testing.

As for native deer/elk farms in U.S.....same thought as Alberta. Never hunted nor shot on one down there either.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by saskbuffaloguy

Just out of curiousity.What is the legal status of game farms in Alberta? I have no idea, and am not trying to toss AvGas on the fire.

Game farms are legal in Alberta. They are under the Livestock Industry Diversification Act administered by Alberta Agriculture and Rural Development.

http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/app21/inf...ve%20Livestock