Tidbits of Alberta

[chad66]

[QUOTE=KegRiver;3304497]I have been to Fort Vermilion many times, if there is anything of his preserved there, I'm not aware of it.

However, the original Hudson's Bay trading post is still in use today.
They've added on to the original log structure and to the best of my knowledge no effort has been made to preserve anything of historic significance.[/




The original Old Bay House, home of the Chief Factor, still exists and is now part of the Fort Vermilion National Historic Site. It was listed as such in 1968, for its importance as site of North West Company and Hudson's Bay Company posts, and is the only such HBC building still sitting in its original location in Alberta.

The Fort Vermilion Visitor Centre is hosted in a 1923 dove-tailed log house. Built on the banks of the Peace River, it was moved to its present location in 1983. Another heritage building is the 1907 Clark House, build for the Hudson's Bay Clerk quarters, and moved in 1994 to the present location near the Visitor Centre. The Trappers Shack , built in 1912, is another dove-tailed log house. It was listed as a provincial Historic Site and is currently being used as a restaurant.

The museum in FV has a ton of historical information on the area, including crop research from the early 1900's onward from the Experimental farm that was established there.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

When asked how he knew this he simply said, I heard the Fox talking.
It was soon apparent that he was right, the plague had started.
The year was 1952.

I guess that answers the question, "What does the Fox say?"

Awesome thread, some great contributions here! It's great to find out more about our Alberta roots.

[chad66]

In 1903 the first steam-powered vessel to serve Fort Vermilion was the St. Charles built to navigate the 526 miles (847 km) the upper reaches of the Peace River, from Hudson's Hope to Fort Vermilion.

[KegRiver]

I know of two historic building that are not being preserved.

About five miles east of Wetaskiwin, on the steep banks of a small river valley there is a large building that appears to have had a very special purpose.
What that was I can only guess as I could find no information on this building.

A friend and I found it while hunting. The building was large and old, perhaps 40 feet by 60 feet. It was terraced to match the valley slope with three floors one above the other. The floors were covered with overlapping tiles about half the size of sidewalk blocks and each had an oblong hole in the center.

My friend and I thought it might have been some sort of water treatment plant but no one we talked to had any idea it existed much less what it was used for.



At old Carcajou, there is a log building, two stories tall, on the edge of a field. The building has small square openings cut into the walls at intervals of a few feet apart. The openings are around a foot square.

I was told that they are gun ports and that the building was a trading fort.

I know nothing more about the building but I do know that another building next to the river, also build of logs, was used as a trading post for a lot of years. It is the first store I was ever in.

The building with the gun ports is much older then the store/trading post.
BTW that store is said to have been a Revillon Frères trading post back in the early 1900s.

It was closed for good about 1970 and today it is abandoned and beyond repair.

The fort with gun ports was in fair condition in 1994 when I saw it. It had been abandoned for more then forty years at that point according to my sources.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by chad66

In 1903 the first steam-powered vessel to serve Fort Vermilion was the St. Charles built to navigate the 526 miles (847 km) the upper reaches of the Peace River, from Hudson's Hope to Fort Vermilion.

List of steam-powered sternwheelers and other vessels
worked on the Peace River above Vermilion Chutes

ATHABASCA RIVER #130277 wood[en hulled]
sternwheel [propelled, built in] 1912 [in] Athabasca
Landing, Alta. by and for Hudson’s Bay Company.
[Length of hull in feet exclusive of sternwheel]
136.0 x [breadth of hull in feet] 28.0 x [depth of
hull in feet] 3.6. 341.21 Gr[oss tonnage]. 230.29. Reg[istered tonnage] Engines: [built in] 1901 [by] Albion Iron Works two hor. h.p. cyl. [horizontal
high pressure cylinders each] 12” [diameter by] x 48” [length] 9.6 NHP [Nominal Horsepower] from Skeena River sternwheeler Hazelton #107834.
Winched up Vermilion Rapids 19 14—15 and worked on Peace River run up to Hudson’s Hope until 1919. She was then beached at Peace River
Crossing and used as a warehouse.

BUFFALO LAKE #156567 (motor vessel) wood twin-screw 1930 Peace River Alta. by George Askew for Hudson’s Bay Company.
91.0 x 19.5 x 4.55.176.67 Gr. 157.55. Reg.Engines: l93O Vivian
Gas Engine Works,Vancouver. 4.5 N.H.P Converted from passenger & freight vessel to tug, 1938.
Register closed 1950.

D.A. THOMAS #138429 wood sternwheel 1916
Peace River,Alta. by George Askew for Peace River
Development Co. Ltd.
161.9 x 37.0 x 6.3 1.11445 Gr. 798.10
Reg. Engines: 1915 Polson two hor. h.p. cyl. 18”x 84” 21.6 NHP 1921 sold to Alberta & Arctic Transportation Co. Ltd. Acquired 1924
by HBC. Foundered 1927 but raised. 1930 hauled
successfully over Vermilion Rapids, but stranded
and abandoned at the approach to Fort Fitzgerald.

GRENFELL # ? wood sternwheel 1912 West Peace
River by George Magar for Peace River Trading
& Land Co. 139 Gr. 81 Reg. Engines: 2.7 NHP
Destroyed by fire September 1914 15 miles above
Fort St.John.

HUDSON’S HOPE #138024 (ex Northland Call)
wood sternwheel 1915 West Peace River,Alta.
Acquired 1919—20 by the Peace River Development
Co. from the Peace River Navigation Co.,
substantially rebuilt, reengined and renamed Hudsons
Hope. Original dimensions: 99.5 x 18.0 x 4.0. 192
Gr. 111 Reg. Engines: 3.5 NHP Not successful;
abandoned after 1920 season; broken up 1924.

LADYMACWORTH #138621 (motor vessel) wood
twin-screw 1916 Peace River Alta. by George F
Askew for Peace River Development Corp. 56.9
x 11.0 x 3.7.21.05. Gr. 14/31 Reg. Engines:Auto
Engine Works, St. Paul, Minn. 7.34 N.H.P Sold
Mar 21, 1921 to Alberta & Arctic Transportation
Co. Ltd. of Edmonton. Dismantled and broken up,
August, 1930.

NORTHLAND CALL #138024 wood sternwheel
1915 West Peace River for Peace River Navigation Co.99.5 x 18.0 x 4. 192.04 Gr. 111 Reg.Engines: 3 NHP Engines, boiler and fittings from retired Athabaska River steamer Northland Call
#134312, Sold 1919—1920 to Peace River Devel
opment Corporation, who substantially rebuilt and
reengined her and renamed her Hudson S Hope.

PEACE RIVER #121777 wood sternwheel 1905 Fort
Vermilion, Alta. by Alex Watson,Jr. for HBC
110.0 x 24.0 x 4.5. 282.02 Gr. 183.98 Reg. Engines: 1905 Marine Engine Works, Chicago two hor. h.p. cyl 10” x 48” 6.7 NHP Abandoned 1916
at Fort Vermilion.

PEACE RIVER BOY #134604 (motor vessel) wood screw 1915 Prudence Crossing, Alta. by and for Clifford Smith.
68.6 x 14.0 x 2.5. 16.49 Gr. 11.21
Reg. Engines: 1913 Brook Motor Works, Lowes toft, U.K. 6.6 N.H.P
Wrecked, 1917.

PINE PASS #134606 (motor vessel, ex Beaver) wood screw tug, 1915 Prudence Crossing by James Cooley for the Smoky & Peace River Boat Company Ltd.
74.0 x 15.1 x 2.5.42.20 Gr. 29.70 Reg.
Engines: one 4-cycle gas engine, 1914 Sterling Engines Works, Buffalo, N.Y. 6.05 N.H.P Certificate issued in 1918.
Destroyed by fire, Peace River,Alta., 1920.


ST CHARLES # ______wood sternwheel
1903 Dunvegan for Bishop Emile Grouard,Vicar Apostolic of Athabasca.
67 x 12 x —. 28.79 Gr. 19.5
Reg. Sold 1911 to Ford & Lawrence. Peace River
Record, Apr 29, 1915: “Grounded on a bar in the river during freeze-up, was thrown high and dry on the bank when the ice went out and is undam
aged.” Dismantled 1916-17.

WATSON LAKE #175563 (motor vessel) steel(?)
screw 1946 Edmonton 55 x 12 x 2.9 26. Gr. 21
Reg. Engines: 220 IHP

WEENUSK #138630 wood screw 1921 Vancouver
for Hudson’s Bay Company. 59.9 x 11.1 x 4.2.29
Gr. 18 Reg.

[thirty-30]

Someone once told me a story of finding a decent sized shipwreck fairly near to Fox lake. That the boilers were still visible, etc.

Is there any truth to this?

[357xp]

Originally Posted by thirty-30

Someone once told me a story of finding a decent sized shipwreck fairly near to Fox lake. That the boilers were still visible, etc.

Is there any truth to this?

Probably the one at the chutes, I have pics of the boiler. Always thought it was part of the d.a Thomas, but according to kegs post above it wouldn't be. Have to read some history books I guess.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 357xp

Probably the one at the chutes, I have pics of the boiler. Always thought it was part of the d.a Thomas, but according to kegs post above it wouldn't be. Have to read some history books I guess.

The D A Thomas was damaged when she went over the chutes, but all reports I've seen say she was able to continue and was eventually abandoned at Fort Fitzgerald

Moreover, the list is not complete. I know for sure there were other boats not on the list.
For instance, there was the Russian Navy. I have seen photos of it. It was a dual paddle wheeler with paddle wheels on each side at midships.

I was talking to big bro this afternoon and he told me the reason it was called the Russian Navy was because the majority partner was a Russian and quiet a character apparently.
It turns out I was wrong about the who owned the Russian Navy. The boat owned in partnership with Ted Stigson was in fact called The Wolvarine and the partner was a fellow named John (Jack) O'Sullivan.
The Wolvarine was built in 1934. I found nothing about her demise.

There may well have been other boats that worked the river that are not mentioned in that list, or it could be one from the list. I noticed that some do not mention how they ended service.

Buffalo Lake, Watson Lake, Weenusk and the Weenusk II do not list how they ended their careers.

Or it could be one of the boats the run from the chutes down to Hay River and beyond. None of these are on the list as it pertains only to those that run above the chutes.

The first motorized vessel on the Peace system was the SS Grahame, built by the Hudson's Bay Company in Fort Chipewyan in the winter of 1882-83.[1] She carried freight 200 miles (320 km) up the Peace to Vermilion Chutes, where the company’s goods were portaged around the rapids and reloaded into a flotilla of scows and canoes for the journey onward.

Other boats not on the list include, from the lower river;

Northland Call
Pine Pass
Northland Echo
Lady Mackworth, sister ship to the D.A. Thomas.
The Grenfell
SS Distributor
Northland Trader

[KegRiver]

Darn

[Red Bullets]

Well, it seems someone is enjoying the thread so much they have decided to post all the posts on another website. So please realize that the things you share are getting around the web. Be diligent in the information you provide or you could be scrutinized in the future. I hope this doesn't influence people to not post things. I had to think about it and so be it. Hopefully the posts we share get more people interested in our Alberta heritage.

And to those that choose to share the stuff on another website...hmm Maybe you should actually read some history books or listen to some of our elders stories and share what you learn.

[Red Bullets]

Did you know there used to be native lake trout in Lesser Slave lake? Not sure when they were decimated but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Another note...back in the earlier part of the 1900's lesser Slave lake was receding. The west end of the lake was so dry the government of the day built a road across the dry lake bed. A few years later the water came back and now this government made road is submerged in the lake.

[Red Bullets]

In 1908 fisheries managers stocked large and smallmouth bass into Sylvan, Gull and Cooking lakes. 1924 they tried stocking Lac La
Nonne.
~~~~~~~
The whitefish in Gull lake were stocked with whitefish from pigeon lake in the 1920's or 30's.
~~~~~~~
Atlantic salmon were stocking into many lakes in both Banff and Jasper parks between 1915 and 1962.
~~~~~~~
Since the early 1900's, nearly forty million fish have been introduced into the Bow watershed of Banff National Park.
~~~~~~~
The brown trout in the Bow river had in interesting start. In 1925 the truck driver transporting brown trout for stocking further west became concerned that the trout would perish before he reached the lake he was traveling to.
So he felt it better than the fish dying he would release them into a creek which he did. That creek flowed into the Bow river and the brown trout have been there ever since.

[Red Bullets]

The first commercial fishing licenses were issued in 1910.

In 1999/2000 the commercial (gill net) fishing industry produced 2.2 million kilograms of fish valued at $3.2 million to local economies. More than 85% of this harvest consisted of lake whitefish and cisco. 85% of 2.2 million is 1.7 million kilos of whitefish and cisco.

(this stat makes me think that commercial fishing never did harm the fish populations. By stopping the commercial fishery anglers had better start fishing for more for whitefish.)

[Red Bullets]

The first general sportfishing licences were issued in 1956. At 1 dollar each 100,883 licences were sold. The licencing scheme was meant to be a way for the gov't to keep track of how many anglers there were in the province.

[KegRiver]

Since we are talking fishing;

My dad used to tell of trapping Grayling in the streams north of Peace River town.
Trappers, including dad, would build a rock fence to corral the fish, When there were enough in the trap/ fence, the trapper would stun them, usually by hitting the water with a board of similar flat tool. The fish would float to the surface and the trapper would then scoop them up and deposit them in sacks.

Dad said they would collect several grain sacks full to supply their dog teams over the winter, or at least for part of the winter.

This was back in the 1920s and early 1930s. Later , when they were able to build a boat, they netted suckers for this purpose.
Oliver Travis wrote about hearing the Grayling thrashing in the shallows when they were migrating there were so many.

What makes this so interesting to me is that this practice ended some time around 1940 as near as I understand, but some time after that the species went into decline and today there seems to be very few left.

Until recently there was a season for them but now all the local steams are closed to Grayling fishing. Yet hardly anyone fishes for them and it's been that way for as long as I can remember.

The Alberta government explains the decline thusly.

A range of factors, acting in a cumulative fashion, have most likely led to the decline of many grayling
populations, including high angling catchability coupled with a popular sport fishery, habitat fragmentation
caused by improper road culverts, and increases in water temperature as a result of changing climate and land-use practices.

Note the comments about angling contributing to the decline.


I know of only a couple of people who ever fished for them in my life time, and they didn't fish for them often.

The BC government scientists had this to say;

It has been proposed that Arctic graylingstocks remained healthy in the reservoir and its tributaries until the early 1980s, when populations began to decrease dramatically (Blackman 2001).
We believe that this is false and that what has been described as a 'healthy stock’ was an illusion caused by residual fish moving around.

In other words the government had not been monitoring the population before this.
BTW, Bennett Dam was finished in 1968.

[Red Bullets]

Hey Keg... Did your Dad ever mention catching inconnu further north in rivers? Maybe he didn't go much further north.

Funny no anglers talk about inconnu much. Everybody goes to the coast for salmon but you never hear of anyone going north for inconnu. They grow to 1.5 meters long and can weigh 60-70 lbs. They are a type of whitefish and are supposedly excellent tablefare and can be prepared just the same as salmon.
They are in the Mackenzie river system and Great Slave lake and Great Bear lake further north.They range into a small area of the northern part of BC too.

Also called 'coney' or 'sruh.'

[Red Bullets]

In 1958 near Swan Hills one particular grizzly plagued the oil workers in the area. He was known as the King of Goose Mountain. If I remember right it was around 9 foot tall... but not as big Bella's grizz.

[HalfBreed]

I'm no Albertan, but I have been curious about what appears to have been mud packed wood cabins near the train tracks on Range Road 15 west of Stony Plain.

I'm actually surprised to have not seen more in my travels of this province.

My apologies for not adding an old story/ tidbit. Most of what I know involves the Secwepemc venturing east of the wall or Cree / Blackfoot venturing west.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by HalfBreed

I'm no Albertan, but I have been curious about what appears to have been mud packed wood cabins near the train tracks on Range Road 15 west of Stony Plain.

I'm actually surprised to have not seen more in my travels of this province.

My apologies for not adding an old story/ tidbit. Most of what I know involves the Secwepemc venturing east of the wall or Cree / Blackfoot venturing west.

Are you meaning the cabins are log and chinked with mud between the logs? Or are you meaning the cabins were boards and the cabins were full of mud?


The Secwepemc coming east of the rocks as a pretty big deal. They were quite a way into BC territory. After the Kootenaes were pushed west into the rocks they didn't even like coming 'out east' except when in need of buffalo.

[HalfBreed]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Are you meaning the cabins are log and chinked with mud between the logs? Or are you meaning the cabins were boards and the cabins were full of mud?


The Secwepemc coming east of the rocks as a pretty big deal. They were quite a way into BC territory. After the Kootenaes were pushed west into the rocks they didn't even like coming 'out east' except when in need of buffalo.

Logs with mud in the middle(gaps?) Is that chink?

I understand crossing the divide was more about cleansing blood relations than warfare, though todays culture would view it as raiding.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Hey Keg... Did your Dad ever mention catching inconnu further north in rivers? Maybe he didn't go much further north.

Funny no anglers talk about inconnu much. Everybody goes to the coast for salmon but you never hear of anyone going north for inconnu. They grow to 1.5 meters long and can weigh 60-70 lbs. They are a type of whitefish and are supposedly excellent tablefare and can be prepared just the same as salmon.
They are in the Mackenzie river system and Great Slave lake and Great Bear lake further north.They range into a small area of the northern part of BC too.

Also called 'coney' or 'sruh.'

Dad's first trip north of the 60th was in the summer of 86. We took him to Resolute Bay. We fished from the shore. Inconnu, or conies, are mostly caught in deeper water. I have never caught one nore has anyone I have fished with.
But I have seen a couple.

We talked to a native fisherman at Fort Res who had a few, one was big, over 30 pounds. He said they feed them to the dogs.
Others have told me that as table fare they are about the same as Whitefish, but oily.

Dad never fished for them or even saw one.

Maybe part of the reason they aren't talked about much is because there are so many much better fish to catch where they do exist.
The pike from those waters give Walleye a run for their money at the dinner table and are better fighters then Walleye and Coney.
I'm told that fighting a big Coney is like fighting a small submarine. Tons of pull but nothing else.

And, as far as I know, anywhere Coneys are caught, there are Lakers as well. And big Lakers.

We are planning another trip this fall, and Conies are one of our target fish.
If we can get my big boat running right.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by HalfBreed

Logs with mud in the middle(gaps?) Is that chink?

I understand crossing the divide was more about cleansing blood relations than warfare, though todays culture would view it as raiding.

Yup, it's called chinking and using mud is common, but it is usually mixed with some sort of fiber, Like straw of sphagnum moss.

There are hundreds of old cabins in the Peace country chinked with mud/fiber mix.
I don't know about down south. I expect some remain there as well.

[HalfBreed]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Yup, it's called chinking and using mud is common, but it is usually mixed with some sort of fiber, Like straw of sphagnum moss.

There are hundreds of old cabins in the Peace country chinked with mud/fiber mix.
I don't know about down south. I expect some remain there as well.

Thanks! The mud/fibre mix is a dirty/racist word where I'm from.

[mac1983]

Here is some old Alberta history. Around 1990 diamond explorers found a kimberlite pipe, which is an extinct volcano at Mountain Lake, approx. 50 miles northeast of Grande Prairie. This extinct volcano is roughly 75 million years old.
There are also kimberlite pipes found in the Birch mountains and the Buffalo Head Hills.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by mac1983

Here is some old Alberta history. Around 1990 diamond explorers found a kimberlite pipe, which is an extinct volcano at Mountain Lake, approx. 50 miles northeast of Grande Prairie. This extinct volcano is roughly 75 million years old.
There are also kimberlite pipes found in the Birch mountains and the Buffalo Head Hills.

There are more kimberlite pipes around than a person thinks. 55 pipes have been found so far. Also, Back n the 1950's a man called Opdahl was walking the Pembina river near Entwistle and found a bigger diamond in the gravels. Almost 1 carat in size. Because of this find Entwistle is noted as being the diamond capitol of Canada. Most of the lands to the south of Hwy 16 in the area have been claimed by companies prospecting for more.

[KegRiver]

There are maps online of the kimberite pipes found east of the Peace River between Codotte lake and Fort Vermilion.

A did some research on diamond a few years ago after finding what,as near as I can find, is a large piece of Zircon in that area. There was some suggestion that it might be a diamond but that was easy to disprove, but it did raise the question, "what exactly was it?"

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

There are maps online of the kimberite pipes found east of the Peace River between Codotte lake and Fort Vermilion.

A did some research on diamond a few years ago after finding what,as near as I can find, is a large piece of Zircon in that area. There was some suggestion that it might be a diamond but that was easy to disprove, but it did raise the question, "what exactly was it?"

You could send it to the Alberta geological survey or the U of A and they could put it though the spectrogram and tell you what you have.

[Red Bullets]

In 1882 fish netted from Lac St. Anne sold for 7 dollars for 100 fish.

[Red Bullets]

Traders from the forts along the North Saskatchewan river would not go into blackfoot territory until 1823. Some Hudson's Bay men went south from Fort Edmonton to open trade in the Missouri basin but found the territory too dangerous. They did build a fort on the Bow river but both the fort and the area were abandoned until 1832 when Peigan Post was put up. The Blackfoot intimidated the traders and they withdrew in 1833. Peigan Post was also known as Old Bow Fort.
It was 55 km NW of Calgary and today all that remains is a pile of rocks. There is a plaque/sign along the Trans Canada west of Calgary. The sign is four miles south of the site.

[dewalt18]

Thanks for he history lesson gentlemen! This ahead the potential to be post of the year!