Step by step reloading for beginners

[Duramaximos]

Hello,
I have a process question. For those of you that outside neck turn your brass, do you do so before or after sizing?

Also, I've been cutting only enough material to uniform the neck wall thickness, but wondering if there is an optimal neck wall thickness for best accuracy? In other words, assuming the neck walls have been turned, is a thicker neck wall more accurate than a thin neck wall, or vice versa?

Thanks!

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[32-40win]

Ran across this thread on the Campfire, seems to be worth making people aware of. The link to the CMP thread was provided by Denton Bramwell, who is someone I will accept, that knows a bit about playing with powder.
It concerns deterioration of powder and what happens when it does. Some interesting info from the US Military on the subject in it.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=157820

this was the original thread from the Campfire;

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...ics/11507280/1

[North Beaver]

Thanks a lot for taking the time and walking us through this. It is nice to have the pictures as a reference. Great job and yes would like to learn more.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

Thought I'd add this one in, someone else found it, but, it is one of the more complete illustrations of case pressure signs, with decent explanations, I have seen.

http://www.primalrights.com/articles...nding-pressure

And as an aside, a thread discussing loading manual pressure, and the foibles of trying to estimate pressure. You need to read the whole thing, it gets some answers from people who really can answer some of these questions and point out the pitfalls, and an explanation of how loading manual pressure info, is arrived at.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...?#Post11366654

This should be mandatory for all shooters. Especially the part about NOT lubing the chamber and making sure lube doesn't get on the cartridges.

[Canada1812]

Just started reloading 9mm and 30-06 recently. I couldn't have started without the knowledge and experience of others.

[borisdavenport]

This is really a great thread, will share it

[700-223]

Bought the Hornady manual on iBooks today after someone mentioned it was free on another thread. Good read, between that thread and this one I know what my project for next year is... I think I just got bit by the reloading bug...

Any chance for an update from the OP? For example, what is a ladder test?

Do you recommend starter kits or buying pieces individually?

[Payton Lee]

Originally Posted by stvnbrg

here are some common pressure signs i think i found on this forum a little while back!

-Case bulging, particularly near an unsupported part of the head.
-Case crack along side (may mean excess pressure, but may mean brittle, defective, draw mark scored, or worn out brass).
-Case head expansion (CHE; may mean high pressure, may mean nothing in isolated case).
-Case head separation (may mean high pressure, but may mean excess headspace or worn out brass).
-Case splits in body in fewer than 10 reloads-back loads down at least 2% (can also be due to ammonia vapor exposure or a brass defect in an individual case).
-Case mouth split (may mean high pressure, but more often means case needed neck annealing).
-Case pressure ring expansion (PRE; not much more reliable than case head expansion but may mean pressure is excessive).
-Case primer pockets getting loose in five reloads or fewer.
-Case, excessive stretching (this is actually visible pressure ring area stretching which may be due to excess pressure or to excess headspace).
-Case, extractor or ejector marks on head, especially after increasing powder charge. Most common in semi-auto rifles, but can happen with any extractor and ejector (may be high pressure or bad timing, or an extractor standing proud on the bolt face).
-Case, won’t fit back into chamber after firing.
-Gas leak (see Primer Leaking, below).
-Groups start to open up at or beyond a suspected maximum load pressure.
-Hard bolt lift.
-Incipient case head separation (starting or partial case head separation or signs of it).
-Increase in powder charge gets unexpected velocity. Look for an orderly progression of muzzle velocity vs. charge weight. If muzzle velocity stops going up or actually goes down, or if it goes up too much, you have a problem. The first two indicate steel is stretching. The stretch may just be due to uneven bolt lug contact, or it may mean you are stretching the receiver and fatiguing the steel abnormally. Unexpected velocity increase indicates unexpected pressure increase. With any abnormal velocity, you should back the charge off 5% from where it started. If, based on manuals, the load and its velocity seem too low for this to be happening, get your gun inspected or bolt lugs lapped and try working up the load again.
-Primer blown (primer falls out when gun is opened; same as loose primer pocket).
-Primer cratering (may mean high pressure, or it may mean a worn firing pin or firing pin tunnel, or may mean you have a new production Remington bolt with chamfered firing pin tunnel).
-Primer flattening (may mean high pressure, or may mean long headspace; some loads always make flat primers; softer primer cups (Federal) flatten more easily than harder ones (CCI), so it also can mean nothing at all).
-Primer, mushrooming (may mean high pressure, or may mean long headspace).
-Primer, piercing (may mean high pressure or may mean incorrect firing pin protrusion or incorrect firing pin nose shape).
-Primer, leaking gas around primer pocket (may mean high pressure, may mean loose primer pocket in case, may mean damaged primer was inserted, may mean primer backed out too far during firing, which excessive chamber headspace makes possible).
-Case, short life -back load off at least 2% (under 10 reloads in non-self-loaders or with military brass in self-loaders, 6 or less in self-loaders with commercial brass).
-Case, sticky or hard extraction (especially in revolvers this is a positive sign to knock the powder charge down at least 5%, in rifles also look for chamber ringing).
-Case, torn or bent rim (from hard extraction, see #24., above).
-Case, primer pocket expanded and won't hold newly seated primers firmly (PPE; this is likely no more accurate than CHE (3., above), but is a more sensitive measure for those with tools that can measure the inside diameter of a primer pocket repeatably to the nearest ten-thousandth of an inch).
-Primer, loose or falls out when opening the action or after (see # 26., above)
-Case, increase in required trimming frequency (this is an sudden increase in case length growth per load cycle, it can be caused by excess pressure, but can also be a sign of increasing head space due to some other problem. It is especially common as a pressure sign in lever action guns because the greater span from bolt face to rear lug allows more steel stretch when pressure gets excessive.)
-Case, increase in apparent headspace (this means the cases are coming out longer, including from casehead to shoulder. It can mean bolt lug setback, which is usually an extreme pressure sign. It can also mean a loose barrel or an improperly set Savage barrel. Whatever the cause, the gun should go straight to the gunsmith for inspection.)
-Gas or Flame Cutting of revolver top strap. (Can also be due to excessive barrel/cylinder gap that needs correction.)
-Gas or Flame cutting of rifle bolt face by gas leaks around primer pocket or of bolt face perimeter. (Can also be result of occasional leaks from normal rounds firing, as is observed in many military gun bolts.)
-Velocity higher than manual maximum load velocity for same powder and barrel length. For example: one fellow using a .243 Win load one charge increment below the manual maximum got velocity 200 fps higher than the manual claimed for its maximum load's velocity. His single-shot action was popping open at every shot. With QuickLOAD we were able to calculate he had about 77,000 psi. An alternate explanation, if everything else is normal, is that your chronograph readings are incorrect. It is not uncommon to get high readings due to muzzle blast when the chronograph is too close to the gun. I recommend 15 feet minimum, since that is what the manual authors typically use and is what you are comparing to. Some big magnum rifles need even more distance.

Very helpful thanks!

[Luckybrand]

Originally Posted by 700-223

Bought the Hornady manual on iBooks today after someone mentioned it was free on another thread. Good read, between that thread and this one I know what my project for next year is... I think I just got bit by the reloading bug...

Any chance for an update from the OP? For example, what is a ladder test?

Do you recommend starter kits or buying pieces individually?

Ladder test is where you generally start at the lowest recommended load for your caliber and make one round and move up either 1 gn or .5 gn increments until max load or signs of pressure. you shoot at a single target same aim point every shot, keep track of which shot was which and you should see a point in your test where the bullets struck fairly close together vertically. In theory for your gun your optimum load should be within the range where you had the least amount of vertical spread. for example my 7mm ladder test was closest vertically between 64 and 66gn of n165. After doing load tests in .2 gn increments between 64&66 my gun shoots most accurately with 65.0gn. I bought a starter kit and added the tools I need after the starter where my brother in law bought everything individually, I may have saved a little money but I've got quite a few tools I'll never use. There is a ton of good info online about load development but always take with a grain of salt and remember the smallest mistake and you could end up hurt or worse so no shortcuts!

[Alephnaught]

Originally Posted by Duramaximos

Hello,
I have a process question. For those of you that outside neck turn your brass, do you do so before or after sizing?

Also, I've been cutting only enough material to uniform the neck wall thickness, but wondering if there is an optimal neck wall thickness for best accuracy? In other words, assuming the neck walls have been turned, is a thicker neck wall more accurate than a thin neck wall, or vice versa?

I've found it helpful to ensure the neck has been resized prior to expanding it over the expand mandrel for the turner. That way you can be sure the neck starts at a point smaller than the expand mandrel. How much smaller really isn't overly important - you're just making sure that the necks aren't larger than the expand mandrel. This is key, as the inside of the neck references off of the pilot.

The main factor to the answer of the next part depends on why you're cutting the necks. If you have custom-reamed chamber that's tight, you'll need to cut them down to fit. If you have a SAAMI chamber and you're turning necks to uniform neck tension, the exact amount you cut away doesn't overly matter. Numbers vary, but the most common recommendation I've seen is to trim away enough material so that about 75% of your necks have had material trimmed away from about 75% of their surfaces. Here, you're trying to reduce the difference between the thickest parts from the thinnest parts. Uniforming neck thickness is one of the fundamentals in uniforming neck tension. Uniformity in neck tension is one of the fundamentals in achieving tight groups.

[Ldsh_tanker]

This was SUPER helpful and informative!
Thank you'

[Dano#5/0]

I'm a beginner reloader and I really enjoyed the tutorial and additional comments. Thank-you so much for taking the time to make this it's very much appreciated!

[jdf96ca]

IMG_1506.jpg
Didn't have my sizing die set proper haha and that's what happens hahahahaha


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[DaveDave]

Thanks for the demo. Love it
Cheers

[MiniFireArms]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Just to add a few points:
.

Thank you for this adding! When I tried to load cartridges myself at the first time, I, probably, made a half of these mistakes. Other readers will not

[Don_Parsons]

Awesome thread as I've fumbled along the years my self.

Got lucky too find a few re-loading folks that have it down patt.

I did the neck trim and sizing years ago,,, now I'm back at it once more with many other things added to the mix.

The fab 7 too brass & bullets.
Also work with primer and powders with more quality & control.

I'm setting up my re-loading system so its easy step by step that will hopefully make ammo constant.

As stated in many re-loading articles.

"If the ammo we produce is as good as, or better than factory cartrages,,, then any errors in shooting will on the Firearm/ optics, or our selves."

One area I'm addressing on top of re-loading is a firearm that is built on a foundation of consistency.
Kinda like a test rifle that stays truly planted.

This eliminates most of those errors of my shooting skills. That way it will assist me in working the load development area.

Don

[BellaSig]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

Awesome thread as I've fumbled along the years my self.

Got lucky too find a few re-loading folks that have it down patt.

I did the neck trim and sizing years ago,,, now I'm back at it once more with many other things added to the mix.

The fab 7 too brass & bullets.
Also work with primer and powders with more quality & control.

I'm setting up my re-loading system so its easy step by step that will hopefully make ammo constant.

As stated in many re-loading articles.


Does anyone here reload shotgun? 410? I want to start but not sure which machine to buy that won't break the bank and need a good mentor!

"If the ammo we produce is as good as, or better than factory cartrages,,, then any errors in shooting will on the Firearm/ optics, or our selves."

One area I'm addressing on top of re-loading is a firearm that is built on a foundation of consistency.
Kinda like a test rifle that stays truly planted.

This eliminates most of those errors of my shooting skills. That way it will assist me in working the load development area.

Don

Does anyone reload shotgun shells here? 410 to be exact? i want to start but need to find a machine that won't break the bank along with a good mentor!

[32-40win]

I see a couple of links I posted to a couple of German Salazar's Rifleman's Journal articles are dead,but, there is still an archive of them available;

https://web.archive.org/web/20150309...1_archive.html

[32-40win]

Found an interesting load data page from RWS. As they are not publishing their manual anymore apparently, they have archived their blue book and put it up is PDF form. Seeing as some Rottweil powders have been made available over here now and there are some other online sources on Rottweil data, this could be useful to be aware of

https://rws-munition.de/rws-jagd-ber...ladedaten.html

[32-40win]

Another powder supplier and data out now. Haven't noticed any available up here yet, but, these guys were making powder for Alliant.
They are importing from Lovex in Czechoslovokia and calling it Shooter's world over here;

https://shootersworldpowder.com/

[32-40win]

This is RCBS's page on You Tube, if you want to know what is what about reloading and using any of their products, it is here;

https://www.youtube.com/user/rcbsrel...gjdNKqkensdxTM

[32-40win]

Interesting tidbit article about base swipe in autoloaders and the relationship to timing and gas buffers and even powder/bullet selection effects;

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...5pSFr1V0yK8QTg

[Gilly87]

That's some great info thanks.

[ayman76]

Originally Posted by jdf96ca

Attachment 134433
Didn't have my sizing die set proper haha and that's what happens hahahahaha


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I would call that funny case now ,
You crewed the resizing die way too much.


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[ayman76]

This question to the reloader, I see Hornady 10th edition mentions the maximum load for every powder type and for specific caliber and they indicate that with red colour, so my question is, does that maximum powder load reflect the weight of the complete cartridge with the bullet and the powder charge or that maximum powder weight includes only the powder charge itself ???

Also anyone seen Lyman 49th or 50th edition online version ?


Thanks.


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[32-40win]

Max charge weight in any reloading manual, is the weight of the powder itself, nothing else included. It is the point where average maximum allowable pressure was achieved in that particular gun, for that cartridge, for that bullet weight and style, with that brass and that primer. Change any of those items, the pressure level will change also. Not aware of Lyman themselves, publishing any of their manuals online.

[ayman76]

Ok thanks , now my other question is this : for the reloader people who has Hornady Custom Grade 2 die set, do you know if the set comes with the tapered/crimp seater die or the bullet seater die that comes with the set it does not have the tapered/ crimp feature ??

For accuracy I am looking to crimp the bullet as Hornady manual recommend. I have the Hornady cartridge reloading handbook 10th edition.

Cheers


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[32-40win]

Unless using a heavy recoiling cartridge or a straightwalled cartridge in a magazine type rifle or pistol, adequate neck tension will negate any need to crimp. When it comes to accuracy, there is no gain from crimping, and you certainly won't see any competition shooters doing it. It also creates the necessity of having brass all the same length, or sorting the brass by length groups and adjusting the die for each length as sorted, to be able to crimp it properly. And if you are shooting a gun like a singleshot or single loading a bolt gun, you can run .005 neck tension if you want, or with say a 338LM and a 300gr bullet, run it at .003 or .004,.005 neck tension in a magazine gun. Most match grade benchrest style seaters have no crimp rings in them.

[32-40win]

A food for thought article on powder storage and humidity, and how it affects burn rate, which is also apparently included in the Norma manual;

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...Ql5kaTw8oq5feU

[ayman76]

I have quick questions about reloading

Which is better to do first :

A) use Frankford arsenal and deprime my brass then tumble them and use the resizing die after OR

B) Use the resizing die to deprime and resize then tumble

Which one is more recommended to do A or B? And why please.

Which order do you use when reloading ? And why mix ratio of cleaning solution do you use to bring that shiny outlook of the brass ??

Langley , BC

Thank you


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