Ukraine is taking the war to Russian territory

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I know people don’t want to surrender to a tyrant. They know life won’t be better for the losing side. They also know the pain won’t end there.

Give Ukraine all the long range and short range weapons they want with the stipulation only military targets.

Then let them have at it.

Russia can’t complain about countries giving Ukraine weapons to attack Russia.

Russia is accepting weapons from other countries to attack Ukraine.

Simple.

It's rather strange and cruel to limit the Ukrainians ability to use western weapons. Let them use them as they require as hampering them is just prolonging this war. The russians use Iranian and North Korean supplied armaments on Ukrainian schools and hospitals every day, yet somehow it's taboo when the tables are turned. Enough already!

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Trochu

So, if Russia launched a nuclear weapon because they were attacked, you think countries such as Finland, Sweden, Poland, etc., who purportedly don't have nukes, would attack Russia? I suspect there would be some hesitation as the correlation it pretty easy to put together, "Ukraine attacked Russia, they got nuked, maybe we should hold back here a little bit"....no?

Russians only understand proportional response.

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I know people don’t want to surrender to a tyrant. They know life won’t be better for the losing side. They also know the pain won’t end there.

Give Ukraine all the long range and short range weapons they want with the stipulation only military targets.

Then let them have at it.

Russia can’t complain about countries giving Ukraine weapons to attack Russia.

Russia is accepting weapons from other countries to attack Ukraine.

Simple.

This certainly doesn't define "success" or measurable end. I guess my expectations were way to high.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

This certainly doesn't define "success" or measurable end. I guess my expectations were way to high.

Ukraine needs strength to end this war. Weakness means loss and subjugation.

Some people have said to negotiate and surrender lands to Russia.

All that means is Russia will do it again. They won’t stop and why would there. If weak minded people willing to sell freedom piece meal… we are doomed.

That negotiation strategy didn’t work against the Nazis and it won’t work against Putin


Let’s face it. Until Russians take back their country from Putin… little will change. If Putin dies there would be change but it’s questionable as to if it would be better or worse because the level of brainwashing and controlled information in Russia is on par with China. There are too many that believe what Putin’s media tells them.

If there is enough fighting in Russia and destruction on par with Ukraine in Russia… the word will get out.

Putin’s 2 week war… what a joke. Ukraine is the epitome of courage and a fight for freedom. They need the support to win.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher;4743282[COLOR="Red"

[/COLOR]]I know people don’t want to surrender to a tyrant. They know life won’t be better for the losing side. They also know the pain won’t end there.

Give Ukraine all the long range and short range weapons they want with the stipulation only military targets.

Then let them have at it.

Russia can’t complain about countries giving Ukraine weapons to attack Russia.

Russia is accepting weapons from other countries to attack Ukraine.

Simple.

Sure, and watch 70% of these weapons ending up on a black market….

[sailor]

Originally Posted by KGB

Sure, and watch 70% of these weapons ending up on a black market….

Statement like this should be made with Proof or it's Putins KGB propaganda
А ты, похоже, его пропагандон!

[Pioneer2]

Could end up like the Japanese invasion of Alaska.A diversionary suicide mission.Putin is recalling Wagner from Africa to assist.Well what's left after the mauling in Mali.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by sailor

Statement like this should be made with Proof or it's Putins KGB propaganda
А ты, похоже, его пропагандон!

It is strange how the anti war guys either say Ukraine is evil and not a country, or Ukraine provoked the attack or NATO provoked the attack or too many have died and Ukraine should just give up or Ukraine is corrupt and the West should just stop helping … and some or all of this will help the Ukrainian people.

[sailor]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

It is strange how the anti war guys either say Ukraine is evil and not a country, or Ukraine provoked the attack or NATO provoked the attack or too many have died and Ukraine should just give up or Ukraine is corrupt and the West should just stop helping … and some or all of this will help the Ukrainian people.

Just Google how old is capital of Ukraine Kyiv .and Moscow ..
When in Kyiv the first Universities was opened at the place where Moscow is now was a swamp full of frogs
Now it's full of Orcs- not much changes

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

It is strange how the anti war guys either say Ukraine is evil and not a country, or Ukraine provoked the attack or NATO provoked the attack or too many have died and Ukraine should just give up or Ukraine is corrupt and the West should just stop helping … and some or all of this will help the Ukrainian people.

Yes I am anti war. Nato has no problem encouraging the Ukraine to fight to it’s last man that is for sure.

[Supergrit]

If America would give Ukraine modern weapons and release the restrictions on them Russia would have some major losses and this war would be over with in little time. Putin threatens nukes but he know if he does that he would no longer exist.
As far as Russia attacking other countries I don’t think that will happen. Ukraine war just revealed how much of a paper tiger Russia was. There weapon can not compete with the west.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

Yes I am anti war. Nato has no problem encouraging the Ukraine to fight to it’s last man that is for sure.

Sometimes our freedoms are important and war is needed. WWII. If Canada, US and Australia refused to enter the war… what would you life be like today?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

If America would give Ukraine modern weapons and release the restrictions on them Russia would have some major losses and this war would be over with in little time. Putin threatens nukes but he know if he does that he would no longer exist.
As far as Russia attacking other countries I don’t think that will happen. Ukraine war just revealed how much of a paper tiger Russia was. There weapon can not compete with the west.

If Ukraine lost Russia would rule them. Putin would lick his wounds and the war machine would start building again. Once he had enough stuff… Moldova would be next. Lots of targets for Putin once weak minds let him win.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

If weak minded people willing to sell freedom piece meal… we are doomed.

I'll talk to Admin, your account has clearly been hacked.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I'll talk to Admin, your account has clearly been hacked.

lol

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by sailor

Statement like this should be made with Proof or it's Putins KGB propaganda
А ты, похоже, его пропагандон!

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

Yes I am anti war. Nato has no problem encouraging the Ukraine to fight to it’s last man that is for sure.

Freedom Ain't Free!

[Sundog57]

Does the name Neville Chamberlain ring any bells for anyone who thinks the West should not support the Ukraine?

[kingrat]

It's mostly politics, the US gives Ukraine billions and sanctions the heck outta Russia blah blah. All the while buying tons of enriched uranium from Russia. Biden bans it but doesn't really take effect for a few more years. Why wouldn't putin tell them to pound sand when he knows the US needs it from them? All smoke and mirrors and the innocent suffer mean while.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Sometimes our freedoms are important and war is needed. WWII. If Canada, US and Australia refused to enter the war… what would you life be like today?

You say our freedoms as if you are somehow involved.
You spout about freedom yet you were for covid mandates and against the freedom convoy.
What freedoms are you talking about?

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Sundog57

Does the name Neville Chamberlain ring any bells for anyone who thinks the West should not support the Ukraine?

Yes the Putin/russian apologist types have been around for a very long time....as the old saying goes "Those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it".
The second world war could have been stopped very early when Hitler and Stalin got together and "annexed" Poland thereby starting the whole thing, but many other countries didn't want to rock the boat.
Sound familiar......

[ruffy71]

The funniest thing in all this (it's all smoke and mirrors, it's the USA, it's Europe, what is freedom).....

What about what Ukrainians want? What makes them any different than Estonians, Latvians, the people in Belarus that tried to ouster Lukashenka. The Hungarians back in '56, the east Germans, the Poles, on and on it goes.

The USA drugged the tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers to convince them to fight? Spiked all the drinking water so Ukrainians will do the US' bidding?

If the last 2 years aren't enough to convince you that the Ukrainians themselves truly want the Russian's to bug off, then nothing will convince you.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

You say our freedoms as if you are somehow involved.
You spout about freedom yet you were for covid mandates and against the freedom convoy.
What freedoms are you talking about?

If you don’t understand what freedoms Putin will take away from Ukrainians… I guess this will be a difficult conversation.

If somehow you believe a vaccine or a mask is anywhere near the same level or degree of what freedoms are that are at risk under Putin’s control… I am very happy you weren’t in charge of decisions for WWII.

lol. Plus you missed the X Trump and Musk interview last night wherein Trump said his creation of the vaccine was a huge triumph for his administration.

I get it. You want Putin to win as that is your prerogative. I strongly disagree with you.

But I get it. If Russia attacked Canada, you would want to surrender as long as Putin allowed trucker protests and no vaccines.

Hate to burst your bubble but if you protested him… you’d go to jail even if you just held a sign or shouted an anti Putin slogan. You wouldn’t have to worry about vaccines as theirs didn’t work.

[AxeMan]

"Hate to burst your bubble but if you protested him… you’d go to jail even if you just held a sign or shouted an anti Putin slogan."

Let me just change one word and the statement still remains true:

Hate to burst your bubble but if you protested him… you’d go to jail even if you just held a sign or shouted an anti Trudeau slogan.

[Drewski Canuck]

There is an Author who was a University Professor, Saul Alinsky. He was active in the black rights movement in the 1960's and led numerous protests on behalf of Unions for fair treatment against big blue chip Companies like Kodak.

He wrote the book: Rules for Radicals

If you want to understand Putin's playbook for starting the war, the first step was to demonize the Ukrainians, by calling them NAZIS. This worked in Russia as there was lots of history to point to.

When Crime Minister Trudeau tried to call the Truckers Convoy NAZIS, it did not work as there was no recent history of what the NAZIS did, in Canada, or at all. That and it was led by an elderly metis woman.

Here are the "rules":

"Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have."

"Never go outside the experience of your people."

"Whenever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy."

"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."

"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."

"A good tactic is one your people enjoy."

"A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."

"Keep the pressure on."

"The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."

"The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."

"If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counter side; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative."

"The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."

"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."

For the Ukrainians to enjoy the freedoms that they have enjoyed since the fall of Communism, they will have to have something to bargain with against the Soviets.

The only thing the Soviets understand is a bigger backlash from its people, and regime change.

The Russian People who are experiencing today what the Ukrainians experienced since 2014 now are in a position to fight back against the Putin Narrative of the "Nazis of Ukraine" and the West making the Ukrainians their "puppets".

Take any of the Rules for Radicals and apply it to the actions of the Ukrainians in taking the fight to Russia, and you will see that it has the potential for finally breaking this grid lock that has carried on for the last two years.

The end game has to have the taking of Russian Territory. It is the only thing that they hold dearly.

Drewski

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Freedom Ain't Free!

You are absolutely right, but I know in real life the good guy’s don’t always win.
I firmly believe that it will end worse for Ukraine without a peace deal made.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

You are absolutely right, but I know in real life the good guy’s don’t always win.
I firmly believe that it will end worse for Ukraine without a peace deal made.

I agree with you on this statement 100%.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by sailor

Statement like this should be made with Proof or it's Putins KGB propaganda
А ты, похоже, его пропагандон!

First of all, I don’t read Russian propaganda. I read this reports from Poland, Hungary, Chech republic and other former Soviet block countries. Google is your friend.
Second- I might dislike Putin and his team way more than you might ever know. Show me anywhere in my post history that I said that I like him or what he is doing.
Resolving to calling me names in Russian is just stupid and childish. I will simply ignore it.
Have nice day comrade.

[32-40win]

Apparently the Russians are short on armored equipt, they requested Belarus send them some, and they are, which will help to keep Belarus out of any possible combat ops ;

MAKS 24 🇺🇦👀
@Maks_NAFO_FELLA
🤬 Lukashenko gave instructions to transfer some military equipment from combat units to Russians, - Bel-News

❗️This is due to an urgent request from the Russian side in connection with losses and shortages of equipment, both in the Kursk region and in other areas.

Some talk of RU sending some UKR POW's to "work" sites on or near the front.
This was one of the comments;

A great joke from Russia:

Putin, after 10 days of Kursk catastrophe, summons Stalin’s ghost :
Stalin: “What’s happened?”
Putin: “Nazis are at Kursk! My army is beaten! What should I do?”
Stalin: “Do like me 1943. Send best Ukrainian troops to the front, and ask the US for arms!”

Meanwhile RU is evacuating around 200,000 people from Kursk and Bryansk oblasts.

A comment on the RUAF signing bonus increase;

I would be well ****ed if I signed up in 2022 for a $2,000 signing bonus for a years service, was then told service is unilaterally extended until the end of the war (!) and guys signing up now in Moscow get $22,000 bonus.

UAF forces left Google reviews of a restaurant in Suzdha;
https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1823428459823292746

Ukrainian opsec:


Rob Lee
@RALee85
“Only at the last moment, according to a deputy Ukrainian brigade commander, were even senior officers told of the offensive. The commander…said he had summoned subordinate officers to a meeting on a roadside in a forest to make an announcement. They would invade Russia. This was three days before the attack. Rank-and-file soldiers learned only a day before.”
@AndrewKramerNYT

NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
@NOELreports
·
2h
Security measures have been intensified in Moscow due to threats of infiltration by reconnaissance and sabotage groups. The protection has been increased in the city center and around the Kremlin, according to Russian media.

[32-40win]

Turkish english newscasts for a bit different POV;

https://www.youtube.com/@TRTWorldNow/videos

Apparently RUAF is helping UAF by way of some red on red mistakes, from some accounts not the only one, another, different one, mentions a company of soldiers in transit and some vehicle taken out by a red on red.

https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status...98898383950054

And of course this will get twisted in Ukes doing some mass looting in the area, along with the FSB and RU propaganda folk pushing UAF killing civilians randomly to come shortly, as they setup in the area. They took a Russian POW that recorded himself looting;

https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1822953065940406661