6.5 Shootout Comparison, How would you score it?

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Icelund .. I'm not sure if a pic will provide you with any useful info but you seem to like pix so I'll give it a try.
This is a HDY 140 Match, using my favorite 6.5 powder. Barrel is an RKS 8 gain twist at 24 " and the load is not at max pressure.

If a CM beats it, that's OK but it might give you an idea about the capabilities of a modern 6.5 Swede.
So yes, lets stick with facts. Also, try and eliminate the word ignorance from any further dialogue.

My dictionary defines "ignorance" as: "Not being apprised of the facts." That seems to be very common on these threads so nice to see some facts. I told a cousin what the definition of "ignorance' was and asked her what it was if one was apprised of the facts and refused to accept them. She replied, "That would be "Stupidity". Something else that we see a lot of on these forums.

Thank you for the picture which is sometimes worth more than a thousand words. You are shooting one of Ron Smiths barrels and it is performing great with the 140 Match bullet at 2805 fps. I didn't doubt that you could get that out of a 6.5 Swede as it pretty much parallels what people are doing with the 6.5CM and the 140 Berger bullets that will fit to the lands in a rifle equipped with a 3.9" + mag box which I think many are like the one Kurt505 has coming. From another forum, "I spoke with Berger and the max load with RL-17 is 42.6. Most accurate load I found with the 140 hunting VLD's was 42.3, which averaged 2816 fps (26 in barrel)."

Would be great to have some information and pictures of groups shot with the 160 Woodleigh's, 143 ELD-X's and 129 SST. I still think that the 160 bullets are no advantage over the 143 grain ELDX except perhaps for dangerous game close up as they are likely not that much more effective than the Sako and Norma 156 grain rounds.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by chuck

I’m thinking I screwed up. I just built a rifle that could have been chambered in any cartridge I wanted. I chose the 6.5 Creedmoor. Oh the regret. It’s eating me alive. I should have looked into this more.

You might be right Chuck. When a bullet exits the muzzle of a good barrel at any speed, it really doesn't care about the cartridge headstamp.
You'll have another chance someday, so don't sweat it.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by chuck

I’m thinking I screwed up. I just built a rifle that could have been chambered in any cartridge I wanted. I chose the 6.5 Creedmoor. Oh the regret. It’s eating me alive. I should have looked into this more.

Awesome

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Salavee

You might be right Chuck. When a bullet exits the muzzle of a good barrel at any speed, it really doesn't care about the cartridge headstamp.
You'll have another chance someday, so don't sweat it.

Oh good. This would be screw up my own cartridge adventure number quite a few. Thank goodness for someday.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

My dictionary defines "ignorance" as: "Not being apprised of the facts." That seems to be very common on these threads so nice to see some facts. I told a cousin what the definition of "ignorance' was and asked her what it was if one was apprised of the facts and refused to accept them. She replied, "That would be "Stupidity". Something else that we see a lot of on these forums.

Thank you for the picture which is sometimes worth more than a thousand words. You are shooting one of Ron Smiths barrels and it is performing great with the 140 Match bullet at 2805 fps. I didn't doubt that you could get that out of a 6.5 Swede as it pretty much parallels what people are doing with the 6.5CM and the 140 Berger bullets that will fit to the lands in a rifle equipped with a 3.9" + mag box which I think many are like the one Kurt505 has coming. From another forum, "I spoke with Berger and the max load with RL-17 is 42.6. Most accurate load I found with the 140 hunting VLD's was 42.3, which averaged 2816 fps (26 in barrel)."

Would be great to have some information and pictures of groups shot with the 160 Woodleigh's, 143 ELD-X's and 129 SST. I still think that the 160 bullets are no advantage over the 143 grain ELDX except perhaps for dangerous game close up as they are likely not that much more effective than the Sako and Norma 156 grain rounds.

Now I have a complete understanding of "stupid " Thanks.
If you care to refer back to what I described about the 140 group photo I posted, I did indicate that the particular load used was not at max pressure .. it was an accuracy load, which I'm sure you might understand are often found a fair bit below max pressure.
I'm not in the habit of posting pics but I can assure you that a 160 RN is a very accurate projectile. As to the other projectiles I use, pick up a Swede, or maybe even a CM and find out a few things for yourself. Forums can be a bit sketchy on reliable data and armchair quarterbacks are everywhere.

[Pathfinder76]

Too bad about the slow and accurate stuff.

[Smokinyotes]

Is the 6.5 creedmoore actually anymore accurate than the Swede? They are similar hp wise. My 6.5x55 is just a T3 stainless but when I was doing the barrel break in with factory Nosler 140 accubonds i shot a 0.192” group. If the CM is significantly more accurate than that I may have to get one.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

Is the 6.5 creedmoore actually anymore accurate than the Swede? They are similar hp wise. My 6.5x55 is just a T3 stainless but when I was doing the barrel break in with factory Nosler 140 accubonds i shot a 0.192” group. If the CM is significantly more accurate than that I may have to get one.

I sure hope you're jesting. How many shots ? There's at least one guy, maybe more, on here that will want to see pics ..

[260 Rem]

Among bottleneck cartridges, I doubt there is a particular “design” that corners the market on precision/accuracy.

[it$_unreel]

Enjoy your 6.5 Creed...great cartridge..reasonably priced and good quality factory ammo available...plus easy to load for.
My personal preference is the 6.5x47 Lapua..it is a dream to shoot and tremendously accurate. That being said..so is the 6.5 swede..the 260 rem the creedmor and many wildcats.
If you want raw horsepower on a 6.5..shoot the 26 NOSLER.... but certainly don't regret your choice in choosing the creedmor.
Good luck and Good Shooting
200 meter 5 round group from my 6.5

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by it$_unreel

Enjoy your 6.5 Creed...great cartridge..reasonably priced and good quality factory ammo available...plus easy to load for.
My personal preference is the 6.5x47 Lapua..it is a dream to shoot and tremendously accurate. That being said..so is the 6.5 swede..the 260 rem the creedmor and many wildcats.
If you want raw horsepower on a 6.5..shoot the 26 NOSLER.... but certainly don't regret your choice in choosing the creedmor.
Good luck and Good Shooting
200 meter 5 round group from my 6.5

A gooder, for sure. The 6.5x47 is an impressive ctdge.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by it$_unreel

Enjoy your 6.5 Creed...great cartridge..reasonably priced and good quality factory ammo available...plus easy to load for.
My personal preference is the 6.5x47 Lapua..it is a dream to shoot and tremendously accurate. That being said..so is the 6.5 swede..the 260 rem the creedmor and many wildcats.
If you want raw horsepower on a 6.5..shoot the 26 NOSLER.... but certainly don't regret your choice in choosing the creedmor.
Good luck and Good Shooting
200 meter 5 round group from my 6.5

That is some fantastic shooting.

[it$_unreel]

In all honesty...if I do my part...this rifle shoots 1/4 moa.
After seeing a few different 6.5x47L's on the 1000 yd shooting line..turning in scores as good as the Dashers..I decided on chambering the Lapua due to the great quality brass and inherent accuracy. I shot next to a gentleman a couple weeks ago who was shooting a factory produced RPR 6.5 Creed using small primer Lapua brass..130 grn Bergers and he and his factory rifle were consistent .40 moa out to 500 yds.
We are fortunate in this day and age to have extremely accurate rifles and components available.
That's why I say to not regret chambering the Creedmor...I have seen them shoot about as well as anything if the shooter is having a great day.
I will be the furst to admit there is always a slight element of some luck when you turn in a teeny tiny group.
A bad primer...a gust of wind...a change in lighting......or an unecpected fart 😄 ...can turn a potential match winning group into a mess in a hurry.
We all have great days in the field or on the range...but I must say that the 6.5x47 Lapua can make it a bit easier.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Well reloading does look appealing. For the 6.5 Grendel seems no issue to get 123 gr pills at 2600-2650 out of 20" barreled gas or bolt guns and 2700-2750 out of 24" gas or bolt guns. Factory ammo rated at 2580(24").

If any cartridge gets me reloading it will be the Grendel, such a fun round. Have 3 now, me and the boys. We will knock down plenty of stuff with them, at normal hunting ranges, will be a blast to plink and dial up, will be a blast for calling predators. Take a long ass time to need a new barrel too.

And you guys are getting excited about Creedmoor's, don't drink the Grendel Kool-aid.

Are your Greandals the CZ 527?

[Norwest Alta]

Unreel that is very impressive.

[260 Rem]

Five consecutive 5 shot groups at 100M shot by a buddy with.........wait for it.........a 30-30 (.311 agg). What’s the take-away??? That cartridge design plays second fiddle to a good barrel chambered by a good gunsmith when shot by a good shooter who makes good handloads.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Five consecutive 5 shot groups at 100M shot by a buddy with.........wait for it.........a 30-30 (.311 agg). What’s the take-away??? That cartridge design plays second fiddle to a good barrel chambered by a good gunsmith when shot by a good shooter who makes good handloads.

This is absolutely true.

[Norwest Alta]

As much as I seem that maybe I'm looking for a fault in the creedmore I'm not. It's got it's place. I don't think it's any worse or any better then any other chambering that has been mentioned. It more or less is personal preference imo. What does bother me is when a company or manufacturer spends a x amount of dollars on a marketing campaign and the authors or columnists are more or less bought off to say how great it is. For this reason I won't have a cm but one day I hope to have a 6.5.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

As much as I seem that maybe I'm looking for a fault in the creedmore I'm not. It's got it's place. I don't think it's any worse or any better then any other chambering that has been mentioned. It more or less is personal preference imo. What does bother me is when a company or manufacturer spends a x amount of dollars on a marketing campaign and the authors or columnists are more or less bought off to say how great it is. For this reason I won't have a cm but one day I hope to have a 6.5.

But if you use the 143gr eld-x it looks so good on paper! I know its really nothing special if you use any of the other bullets out there, but the 6.5 143 gr eld-x will change shooting as we all know it!

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

But if you use the 143gr eld-x it looks so good on paper! I know its really nothing special if you use any of the other bullets out there, but the 6.5 143 gr eld-x will change shooting as we all know it!

Paper doesn't make a very good turd though.

[catnthehat]

As far as the cartridge itself goes, the calibre interests me more than the case , but I have been infatuated with both the 6.5 and the .311 bulets for more than 50 years now!
I can remember when I was very young discussing the 300 meter free rifle competition with my father and asked him why he was necking down cases to 6mm for a wildcat he was shooting and he told me that certain industry people were pushing for better 6.5 competition bullets in North America but the public would not buy them at the time!in those days the .308 ruled the 300 meter free rifle competition over here but not internationally!
Cat

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by amosfella

Are your Greandals the CZ 527?

One CZ 527 American
One Howa Mini 20” #1 contour barreled action in MDT LSS chassis
One Howa Mini 22” #2 contour also in an MDT LSS

My draw to the howa chassis set ups is using standard ar accessories, specifically the adjustable length of pull butt stocks to grow with my kids and still be a rocking little platform even when they are adults. The cz is for Dad however the 20” Howa may get some special treatment and bits to turn it into a little lightweight with folding stock adapter that stuffs in a pack for some mountain work. May have Henry Rempel see if he can skeletonize the chassis and possibly the action and see if a half pound can be lost. Smoke carbon butt stock at 4oz, hogue polymer grip at 1.8 oz, Talley’s, Xr folding stock adapter at 4.5 oz brings it down to 30.5” oal. Either way before scope they aren’t heavy, the above about 6 lbs before scope, goal would be 5.5 before scope and to change the balance. The #1 barrel could use a little weight reduction in the middle to improve that. The 22” #2 feels good as is and I don’t plan to change a thing with it.

Loving all three so far. Have seen one 3 shot half moa out of the cz so far with eldm hornady but haven’t been able to get out shooting to finish them out.

[Kurt505]

The 6.5 bullet isn't new, the Swede is proof it's been an effective caliber for quite some years, it's just taken a long time for the crusty North American 30cal lovers to come to terms with it..... some still haven't.

Magnums had their place as far as taking the guesswork out of the equation, allowing a guy to hold on fur out to 400yds, but since the advent of range finders and ballistic compensating scopes, along with proper bullet design, for 99% of hunters a magnum is simply not needed. Of course if your intention is to shoot animals out past 600 or 800yds then a magnum is where it's at, that's beyond my wants or capabilities though.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

As much as I seem that maybe I'm looking for a fault in the creedmore I'm not. It's got it's place. I don't think it's any worse or any better then any other chambering that has been mentioned. It more or less is personal preference imo. What does bother me is when a company or manufacturer spends a x amount of dollars on a marketing campaign and the authors or columnists are more or less bought off to say how great it is. For this reason I won't have a cm but one day I hope to have a 6.5.

A lot of ink has been spilled for a lot of years over a lot of cartridges that had nowhere near the success the CM has. You are inferring there is some kind of bought and paid for conspiracy theory. This is simply ignorance. I’m not sure how so many arrive there.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by chuck

A lot of ink has been spilled for a lot of years over a lot of cartridges that had nowhere near the success the CM has. You are inferring there is some kind of bought and paid for conspiracy theory. This is simply ignorance. I’m not sure how so many arrive there.

140 grains going 2700 fps isnt anything amazing. Its pretty close to the bottom of the barrel. A lot of people try and articulate using 7.62x39 ammo in their sks as a fine hunting tool too. We all know better. 6.5cm is fine as a low recoil cartridge if used within its limitations. 270 beats the snot out of it. 280AI even more.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

140 grains going 2700 fps isnt anything amazing.

With an s.d. of .287.....yes it is.

That's what is being missed here.

Whether it's from a swede or a 260 rem or a cm.

Bottom line, it's more about the s.d. than the weight that makes it amazing at 2700. The 6.5 makes it a lot easier to get those high s.d.'s at those speeds. The cm is simply the most modern version that crosses the most choices shooters want from platforms to accuracy etc.

Of course a .224 Valkyrie could play in the s.d. game at 90 grains but as big game hunters we can't legally hunt with sub 6mm plus we seem to like a minimum threshold of bullet weight north of that anyhow. 140 gr is a balance of light end to heavy end. That's one reason so popular.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

With an s.d. of .287.....yes it is.

That's what is being missed here.

Whether it's from a swede or a 260 rem or a cm.

Bottom line, it's more about the s.d. than the weight that makes it amazing at 2700. The 6.5 makes it a lot easier to get those high s.d.'s at those speeds. The cm is simply the most modern version that crosses the most choices shooters want from platforms to accuracy etc.

Of course a .224 Valkyrie could play in the s.d. game at 90 grains but as big game hunters we can't legally hunt with sub 6mm plus we seem to like a minimum threshold of bullet weight north of that anyhow. 140 gr is a balance of light end to heavy end. That's one reason so popular.

When you bring science into the equation some people prefer to plug their ears and say "La la la I can't hear you".

I've been using 140gr bullets in my 280's for over 20yrs and they kill everything I shoot at quick and sure with a moose @ 509yds being my biggest and furthest combination to date, it was literally a bang flop. I've killed deer further and elk just a bit shy of the 500yd mark. I had a client shoot a moose with a 280ai at 675yds with a 150gr nosler LRAB. These shots are at the outer limits of what I want to shoot big game at, and I'm sure with a 140gr bullet coming out of a Creed, a Swede, 260rem, or any in the same 2600-2800mv 6.5's the results will be the same.

[Maxwell78]

I am shooting my 160gr ppsn woodleighs at 2650 fps from my swede using H4831sc. (sako 85 action with a rks 25"bbl, Mcmillian stock). Combine the .509 bc and the 328 sd and you get one heck of a combo.

"That cartridge design plays second fiddle to a good barrel chambered by a good gunsmith when shot by a good shooter who makes good handloads. "

This couldn't be said any better

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

140 grains going 2700 fps isnt anything amazing. .

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

With an s.d. of .287.....yes it is.

That's what is being missed here.

Whether it's from a swede or a 260 rem or a cm.

Bottom line, it's more about the s.d. than the weight that makes it amazing at 2700. The 6.5 makes it a lot easier to get those high s.d.'s at those speeds. The cm is simply the most modern version that crosses the most choices shooters want from platforms to accuracy etc.

.

A 6.5 leopard should be super amazing then. Requires a short action to boot. Figure with the name Leopard, it would be a sure fire marketing sell. Maybe rename it as the 6.5 Claymore?

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Maxwell78

I am shooting my 160gr ppsn woodleighs at 2650 fps from my swede using H4831sc. (sako 85 action with a rks 25"bbl, Mcmillian stock). Combine the .509 bc and the 328 sd and you get one heck of a combo.

"That cartridge design plays second fiddle to a good barrel chambered by a good gunsmith when shot by a good shooter who makes good handloads. "

This couldn't be said any better

X2 ... in a nutshell !!