Connor McDavid: Greatness Walks Among Us

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by waldedw

If the only sign of greatness is winning the cup then Pat Maroon must be the greatest of the great, he's played for 6 different teams and a total of 765 games, he has 121 goals and 181 assists and has 3 stanley cup rings in 3 consecutive years with 2 different teams, 1 with St Louis, and 2 with Tampa Bay back to back.

When it comes to cup rings he has as many as Sid and 1 more than Mario and only 1 less than Gretzky and I doubt there is a hockey fan alive that would even mention his name when talking about the greats of the game, or that maybe even know who he was, just saying.

Hahahaha.

I was just going to post this too as I was reading through this thread.

The whole "you're not really great unless you win a Cup" thing is such TOTAL B.S. It's the only thing that the haters can fall back on (other than plus/minus ) to put a chink in McDavid's armour.

The NHL in the salary cap era is the ultimate team sport, no single player (with the possible exception of a red hot goalie), or even a group of 2 or 3, can carry a team or "will" their way to a Cup victory. If you believe otherwise, you haven't been watching NHL hockey for the last 15+ yrs. Many, in fact likely most, of the HofF'ers of this current salary cap era will not put their names on the Cup.

My biggest disappointment as a hockey fan, is that there has not been a "Best on Best" tournament - Canada/World Cup, Olympics, etc... in this era. The stars of today's game haven't been given a chance to showcase that greatness and create those legacies. It's a huge loss for them and for all of us as hockey fans.

As for McDavid, you don't have to be an Oilers fan to appreciate his greatness. Love him or hate him, if you're a fan of the game, just watch the guy and soak it in, you have to be almost in awe of what he does every single night. You can't compare eras, and Gretzky is on a different level, but IMHO, Connor McDavid is the most individually skilled/talented player to ever play the game.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by sns2

Just to be clear. Anyone who would argue anything in hockey based on plus minus to back it up, is stuck in a time warp wishing Howie Meeker will be resurrected to call games of guys who smoked darts between periods. Next to no one gives it any creedence. None. Zip. Nada.

Carry on

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

Just to be clear. Anyone who would argue anything in hockey based on plus minus to back it up, is stuck in a time warp wishing Howie Meeker will be resurrected to call games of guys who smoked darts between periods. Next to no one gives it any creedence. None. Zip. Nada.

Carry on

Just as it was when the game was created, a team wins by scoring more goals than the opposition. It doesn't matter if you score five goals per game, if you give up six goals per game. The players that score a lot of goals but are defensive liabilities, can win scoring races, but unless you have a great goaltender and defense , they won't win you the Stanley Cup. Look at the past five years, which team had the top scorers? How many Stanley cups did the team win?

[sns2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Just as it was when the game was created, a team wins by scoring more goals than the opposition. It doesn't matter if you score five goals per game, if you give up six goals per game. The players that score a lot of goals but are defensive liabilities, can win scoring races, but unless you have a great goaltender and defense , they won't win you the Stanley Cup. Look at the past five years, which team had the top scorers? How many Stanley cups did the team win?

How often do you watch hockey nowadays? Be honest because your stubborn, stick with your argument, is telling me you may not watch hockey like you likely did in the past.

You know the game has progressed since Stan Makita last laced em up.

For realz.

[Engels]

Originally Posted by sns2

How often do you watch hockey nowadays? Be honest.

+/- shouldnt even be a stat published to indicate how well an individual has been playing.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

How often do you watch hockey nowadays? Be honest because your stubborn, stick with your argument, is telling me you may not watch hockey like you likely did in the past.

You know the game has progressed since Stan Makita last laced em up.

For realz.

I don't watch games like I used to, but to my knowledge, you still need to outscore the opposition. And I can still read stats, the team whose players are winning the scoring race, aren't winning Stanley Cups. Oddly enough, if you go way back in history, the teams that won the scoring race did win more cups, so in that way the game has changed.

[Trochu]

Let's get this back on track fellas, feel free to start a thread explaining, or not, the merits of +/-.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by sns2

Just to be clear. Anyone who would argue anything in hockey based on plus minus to back it up, is stuck in a time warp wishing Howie Meeker will be resurrected to call games of guys who smoked darts between periods. Next to no one gives it any creedence. None. Zip. Nada.

Carry on

A couple just grasping at straws. Some even calling Crosby a great leader lol. Crosby had the tendency to put more miles on his skate blades chasing the zebras around whining to them than actually playing. Anyone here remember the Philly/Pittsburg playoff series? Great leadership. lol
Was Gretzky a great leader? Or was it actually Messier?

With what McDavid has done in the modern era NHL, he will most certainly go down as one of the greatest of all time

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Curtsyneil

The coincidence is that there on the ice more than everybody else cause there good players.

Mcjesus last game had under 17 minutes of ice time, sure would have hated to play against him during that time but man skate with him and go to the net or feed him a pass and watch the afterburners kick in!!!


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[58thecat]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

A couple just grasping at straws. Some even calling Crosby a great leader lol. Crosby had the tendency to put more miles on his skate blades chasing the zebras around whining to them than actually playing. Anyone here remember the Philly/Pittsburg playoff series? Great leadership. lol
Was Gretzky a great leader? Or was it actually Messier?

With what McDavid has done in the modern era NHL, he will most certainly go down as one of the greatest of all time

Crosby had to battle his own battles and barking at the refs for missed calls as his chiclets are on the ice, lips bleeding etc and a little premature on calling mcjesus going down in history etc as he could be injured in the blink of an eye and career ending.

So many things come into play to be labeled great!


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[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Crosby had to battle his own battles and barking at the refs for missed calls as his chiclets are on the ice, lips bleeding etc and a little premature on calling mcjesus going down in history etc as he could be injured in the blink of an eye and career ending.

So many things come into play to be labeled great!


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Crosby was a whiner but I guess that is an attribute to being a great leader.

How many years does one have to play to be considered great? 10? 15? 20?
Sounds like there is a minimum

Lindros only played 13 years and never won a cup. That's too bad
The guy that made that happen was a good leader

[pikergolf]

What sets McD apart is speed. Most of the great players had the ability to slow the game down and then pick apart defenses. McD has the ability to speed the game up and defenses break down. Unique skill set and very enjoyable to watch.

[Ackleyman]

McDavid is a magician with the puck and speeds the length of the ice really fast..then kicks his jets in leaving defencemen and goalies bewildered and blows your mind. Awesome ++ talented player , what a pleasure to watch him play. Sadly I think if he does not get traded [gasp] he will never hoist the cup. Hope i am wrong.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Crosby was a whiner but I guess that is an attribute to being a great leader.

Being a leader isn't indistinguishable from perfect. Crosby, at the time, was the youngest captain in the NHL, youngest captain to win the cup since the lockout, Captained one of the greatest hockey teams ever assembled, and captained all three winning teams as a member of the Triple Gold Club. If you look at Crosby and all you see is "whiner", you're missing alot.

Originally Posted by MountainTi

How many years does one have to play to be considered great? 10? 15? 20?
Sounds like there is a minimum

There absolutely is a minimum. I feel as it takes time to achieve the milestones typically associated with greatness and to prove it wasn't a one off. Consistency and health are also factors. No one, anywhere, in any sport, is considered "great" if they only played one or two years.

[gman1978]

After reading all this, I am now convinced that Claude Lemieux is better than Mcdavid.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

What sets McD apart is speed. Most of the great players had the ability to slow the game down and then pick apart defenses. McD has the ability to speed the game up and defenses break down. Unique skill set and very enjoyable to watch.

Speed in every regard, not just straight line speed. Heck, Rayan McLeod might even be the fastest Oiler. It’s his ability to sense the smallest opening, and within 3 or 4 strides, hes’ blown past a couple defenders, and often corkscrewed them into the ice. I will never forget when he walked Morgan Reilly. And he can handle the puck more quickly than anyone we’ve ever seen. It’s all just an insane, never before seen package.

His greatness won’t be determined on AO. That’s already been done by him.

I just consider myself fortunate that when I think of the greatest players to don my team’s jersey, I can look to 99 and 97… not Jarome Iginla. It just shows how fortunate Oiler fans have been. And that’s not a slam on Iginla because I consider him a truly great hockey player (and person), but rather a reflection of how fortunate I feel.

BTW, Connor has almost played as many games as Bobby Orr.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Being a leader isn't indistinguishable from perfect. Crosby, at the time, was the youngest captain in the NHL, youngest captain to win the cup since the lockout, Captained one of the greatest hockey teams ever assembled, and captained all three winning teams as a member of the Triple Gold Club. If you look at Crosby and all you see is "whiner", you're missing alot.



There absolutely is a minimum. I feel as it takes time to achieve the milestones typically associated with greatness and to prove it wasn't a one off. Consistency and health are also factors. No one, anywhere, in any sport, is considered "great" if they only played one or two years.

Exactly and not making the news for all the wrong reasons too!

Being humble yet driven comes to mind.


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[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sns2

Speed in every regard, not just straight line speed. Heck, Rayan McLeod might even be the fastest Oiler. It’s his ability to sense the smallest opening, and within 3 or 4 strides, hes’ blown past a couple defenders, and often corkscrewed them into the ice. I will never forget when he walked Morgan Reilly. And he can handle the puck more quickly than anyone we’ve ever seen. It’s all just an insane, never before seen package.

His greatness won’t be determined on AO. That’s already been done by him.

I just consider myself fortunate that when I think of the greatest players to don my team’s jersey, I can look to 99 and 97… not Jarome Iginla. It just shows how fortunate Oiler fans have been. And that’s not a slam on Iginla because I consider him a truly great hockey player (and person), but rather a reflection of how fortunate I feel.

BTW, Connor has almost played as many games as Bobby Orr.

Your an Oiler fan



You guys need a goalie, nucks have a gooder, let’s talk trade


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[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by gman1978

After reading all this, I am now convinced that Claude Lemieux is better than Mcdavid.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by sns2

Speed in every regard, not just straight line speed. Heck, Rayan McLeod might even be the fastest Oiler. It’s his ability to sense the smallest opening, and within 3 or 4 strides, hes’ blown past a couple defenders, and often corkscrewed them into the ice. I will never forget when he walked Morgan Reilly. And he can handle the puck more quickly than anyone we’ve ever seen. It’s all just an insane, never before seen package.

His greatness won’t be determined on AO. That’s already been done by him.

I just consider myself fortunate that when I think of the greatest players to don my team’s jersey, I can look to 99 and 97… not Jarome Iginla. It just shows how fortunate Oiler fans have been. And that’s not a slam on Iginla because I consider him a truly great hockey player (and person), but rather a reflection of how fortunate I feel.

BTW, Connor has almost played as many games as Bobby Orr.

I count my blessings that I get to watch him every day too, I never take it for granted. Truly an incredible talent.

I've done exactly one "happy dance" in my life, and it was the day that golden draft ticket had the Edmonton Oilers logo on it. My kids still razz me about it lol.

The big milestones stats and entries into the record books seem to happen pretty regularly, but I don't necessarily connect them with time. The fact McDavid's played almost as many games as Orr is mind boggling to me. In fact, every time I think he's in year 7 or 8 of his career already it kinda blows my mind. Time flies by...

[Curtsyneil]

I’m an oiler fan not going to deny that and yeah I’m sticking up for Connor. He is by far the whole package. His speed and hands are off the charts and his hockey sense is amongst the best to ever play the game. Hints why him and Leo are so good together they just understand the game at the same level. You can’t teach that your born with that ability. Like buddy said clouder might be that fastest guy on the oilers but it’s conners ability to get to his top speed in 3 strides nobody does it better then add in the brain moving that fast and the hands and that’s why he makes defenceman like doughty, Riley look like average players. As for Sydney Crosby hells yeah he’s a great player and will be in the top 10 players to ever play the game. Who cares how many cups or metals or even points he has he’s and unbelievable player and his accomplishments speek for them self. I would say he’s a pretty good leader.

[Roderek]

I don't think anyone is arguing that McDavid is not incredibly talented. It is very likely that he will be considered one of the greatest to ever play the game if he remains healthy and is able to play for a few more years.

If you have not had the chance to see him live, you absolutely should as the TV does not do him justice, the speed at which he can control the puck is amazing. I don't actually think he is the fastest player out there, but he is definitely 1 of the fastest that is able to control the puck at high speed. His edgework is incredible.

For years there was discussion about could OVI be considered one of the greats since he hadn't been able to lead the team to a cup. McDavid is stuck in this zone. Until he does win the cup, he will never silence the critics.

Hockey is a team game, individual Trophy's don't matter, the only one that does is the cup. It is definitely tougher in the cap era, but it is still attainable. When you have a player that can go out and almost score at will, it is already a major advantage.

Someone mentioned Lindros, he was an excellent player but I do not consider him one of the greatest. Had his career not been derailed by injuries he could have gone on to be one of the greatest, but IMO he is not.

Messier Led the Rangers to a cup, I wouldn't say that the 94 Rangers were a team of nobody's Leech and Richter helped for sure, but it was far from a star studded lineup.

It is not McDavid's fault that the NHL has not gone to the Olympics, or there has not been a true World cup of hockey since he turned pro. Perhaps opinions would change if he led Canada to a Gold medal. Although even in the upcoming world cup/Olympics, not sure it counts as best on best without Russia.

To summarize, McDavid is an incredibly skilled and talented hockey player, that can draw you out of your seat any second with his magic. A shoe in for the hall of fame. Worth the price of admission.

One of the greatest to ever play ---- Yet to be determined.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by curtsyneil

i’m an oiler fan not going to deny that and yeah i’m sticking up for connor. He is by far the whole package. His speed and hands are off the charts and his hockey sense is amongst the best to ever play the game. Hints why him and leo are so good together they just understand the game at the same level. You can’t teach that your born with that ability. Like buddy said clouder might be that fastest guy on the oilers but it’s conners ability to get to his top speed in 3 strides nobody does it better then add in the brain moving that fast and the hands and that’s why he makes defenceman like doughty, riley look like average players. As for sydney crosby hells yeah he’s a great player and will be in the top 10 players to ever play the game. Who cares how many cups or metals or even points he has he’s and unbelievable player and his accomplishments speek for them self. I would say he’s a pretty good leader.

word

[JohninAB]

Bobby Orr 657 games played 915 points

McDavid 602 games played 903 points

Bobby Orr was a defenceman in a way more physical era playing basically with one knee.

Just as a side note, fastest defenceman ever to 250 points, Cale Makar.

I count my self lucky to have watched Orr and Mario play. IMHO they are the highest skilled/best ever players at their respective positions, bar none.

Orr is the greatest player ever to lace them up. Revolutionized the game.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Being a leader isn't indistinguishable from perfect. Crosby, at the time, was the youngest captain in the NHL, youngest captain to win the cup since the lockout, Captained one of the greatest hockey teams ever assembled, and captained all three winning teams as a member of the Triple Gold Club. If you look at Crosby and all you see is "whiner", you're missing alot.

Crosby was one of the best players of that era. Of course he was going to be named captain. Kinda sounds like he captained a team with all the pieces of the puzzle. Accolades to him for being named captain. Did he "lead" the team?
There have been some great leaders. Messier was one while Gretz wore the C.
Why do you think all I see is whiner when I look at Crosby? I don't respect whiners. Never have,.. I've told guys to quit whining at a safety meeting in front of a large crowd. Crosby liked to whine....but he was also the best hockey player of that era and fun to watch when he was playing hockey
To say that McDavid will never be one of the all time best players in the NHL because he has never led a team to a Stanley cup is just....well.....

There absolutely is a minimum. I feel as it takes time to achieve the milestones typically associated with greatness and to prove it wasn't a one off. Consistency and health are also factors. No one, anywhere, in any sport, is considered "great" if they only played one or two years.

.

[walker1]

Good conversation!!! Always creates a debate with buddies of mine over the years.
It comes down to comparing players from different eras and positions . IMO
Winning the cup is the ultimate but is it what makes one great? Borque all those years in Boston and trading deadline comes and he hoists the cup in Colorado. I have an opinion on that but good for him.
97 is awesome and is the best in the game NOW. Where he will end up on the list of greats will be determined in time.
Crosby, best 200 foot player in past 15 years hands down.

# 4 is # 1 to me...................... and I am a Habs fan at that!!!!!!

[sns2]

It’s all in good fun, but when you move past being a myopic homer, the game of hockey becomes the most beautiful in sport.

The greats make the insane, effortless.

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by sns2

It’s all in good fun, but when you move past being a myopic homer, the game of hockey becomes the most beautiful in sport.

The greats make the insane, effortless.

It is a good thread and fun debate. It’s a great game, there have been some incredible players. For any of us beer leaguers to diminish their ability is laughable.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

Bobby Orr 657 games played 915 points

McDavid 602 games played 903 points

Bobby Orr was a defenceman in a way more physical era playing basically with one knee.

Just as a side note, fastest defenceman ever to 250 points, Cale Makar.

I count my self lucky to have watched Orr and Mario play. IMHO they are the highest skilled/best ever players at their respective positions, bar none.

Orr is the greatest player ever to lace them up. Revolutionized the game.

Orr was truly amazing, but unfortunately, he played hurt for most of his career, especially
last few years . Yet he was able to win both the scoring race, and best defenceman, the ultimate two way player.

[catnthehat]

I don't watch hockey but only on a rare occasion, know very little about it except to cross reference it from my lacrosse days back when I was young.
However, with all this talk about Connor McDavid, I think I may just turn on the idiot box and watch a game if nothing more to see what all the hullabaloo is about.

It sounds like this guys is all that and a bag of fires for sure!
Cat