Shooting from a vehicle

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by cdnltded

and I was told by a fish and wildlife officer a few years back, that if your in a field all you need to do is have both feet on the ground.

still can use the vehicle as a rest.

personally I think its all up to the officer.

I heard there was a guy that got charged by an RCMP for discharging a firearm from a motorized vehicle, and the guy was a mile of the road on private land.

Application of the law is always the discretion of the officer - but that doesn’t change the law. The wildlife act reads “have a loaded firearm on or in a vehicle” Using the vehicle as a rest would necessitate having a loaded firearm on a vehicle.


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[expedition]

I feel the reason was Kim Campbell was a twit . She Thought Miami vice was real! Need to stop people from shooting other people from sports cars.

[silver]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Application of the law is always the discretion of the officer - but that doesn’t change the law. The wildlife act reads “have a loaded firearm on or in a vehicle” Using the vehicle as a rest would necessitate having a loaded firearm on a vehicle.


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I was in a discussion with a conservation officer last year about this subject. If you even have a rifle lean against a tire, you have broken the law. But if the rifle is not in direct contact with the vehicle, you are OK.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by silver

I was in a discussion with a conservation officer last year about this subject. If you even have a rifle lean against a tire, you have broken the law. But if the rifle is not in direct contact with the vehicle, you are OK.

And I guarantee I’d win that charge in court!

[sweld]

I was sighting in a rifle last year on crown land. Had the truck there using the tailgate to rest the gun and make adjustments as required. Game warden pulled up checked the gun got my info and went in his way. Didn’t say a thing about the gun. My guess is because it wasn’t loaded.


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[M70]

Should fair chase and ethical hunting apply to getting rid of gophers? Farmers and ranchers that I know don’t view getting rid of gophers as a sporting activity or hunting. The holes and damage that gophers cause are a real nuisance. They don’t have enough time to take an entire afternoon for a leisurely walk through a pasture and pat themselves on the back for making a 150 yard shot with their customized heavy barreled .223 with their latest developed load.

They want dead gophers. Guys I know make a distinct line in the sand between hunting game animals and shooting gophers. Shooting from their truck windows is about the same as swatting flies for them. We may not agree with their methods but I can empathize. I’d rather see that than setting up more poisoned bait stations.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by M70

Should fair chase and ethical hunting apply to getting rid of gophers? Farmers and ranchers that I know don’t view getting rid of gophers as a sporting activity or hunting. The holes and damage that gophers cause are a real nuisance. They don’t have enough time to take an entire afternoon for a leisurely walk through a pasture and pat themselves on the back for making a 150 yard shot with their customized heavy barreled .223 with their latest developed load.

They want dead gophers. Guys I know make a distinct line in the sand between hunting game animals and shooting gophers. Shooting from their truck windows is about the same as swatting flies for them. We may not agree with their methods but I can empathize. I’d rather see that than setting up more poisoned bait stations.

The regulation also makes it illegal to target shoot from the bed of a pickup, or over the hood, so the issue isn't just shooting pests. Perhaps the smart thing to do would be to allow shooting from a vehicle, as long as the vehicle is stopped, and the ignition is turned off. This would match up with being able to shoot from a motor boat if the engine is off, and it is anchored.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by boah

It doesn’t matter how idiot proof you make things, the world will just make better idiots.

Evolution......

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by M70

Should fair chase and ethical hunting apply to getting rid of gophers? Farmers and ranchers that I know don’t view getting rid of gophers as a sporting activity or hunting. The holes and damage that gophers cause are a real nuisance. They don’t have enough time to take an entire afternoon for a leisurely walk through a pasture and pat themselves on the back for making a 150 yard shot with their customized heavy barreled .223 with their latest developed load.

They want dead gophers. Guys I know make a distinct line in the sand between hunting game animals and shooting gophers. Shooting from their truck windows is about the same as swatting flies for them. We may not agree with their methods but I can empathize. I’d rather see that than setting up more poisoned bait stations.

In my opinion, there is a difference between hunting game species and hunting nuisance species but I don't believe the law makes that distinction.

I've been told that a loaded gun in or touching any motorized vehicle including a boat with an electric trolling motor, is a violation of the law. Whether one intends to use the gun or not. And whether one is hunting or not.

So I conduct myself accordingly.

In a perfect world the law could differentiate but in this world poachers use any excuse to cover their illegal activity.

If the law allowed a loaded weapon in or on any vehicle, the very next day at least one person would be caught hunting gophers and shooting from his vehicle in the far north, or on a mountain side.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

In my opinion, there is a difference between hunting game species and hunting nuisance species but I don't believe the law makes that distinction.

I've been told that a loaded gun in or touching any motorized vehicle including a boat with an electric trolling motor, is a violation of the law. Whether one intends to use the gun or not. And whether one is hunting or not.

So I conduct myself accordingly.

In a perfect world the law could differentiate but in this world poachers use any excuse to cover their illegal activity.

If the law allowed a loaded weapon in or on any vehicle, the very next day at least one person would be caught hunting gophers and shooting from his vehicle in the far north, or on a mountain side.

You can use a loaded gun in a boat with an electric or gas motor as long as it is anchored. If it is muscular powered you don't need the anchor.

[Iskra]

Originally Posted by silver

I was in a discussion with a conservation officer last year about this subject. If you even have a rifle lean against a tire, you have broken the law. But if the rifle is not in direct contact with the vehicle, you are OK.

Loaded rifle.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by lannie

You can use a loaded gun in a boat with an electric or gas motor as long as it is anchored. If it is muscular powered you don't need the anchor.

That is not what I was told, and that is a large part of the problem.
Each officer seems to have his own idea of what the wording means.

I was told that one could only shoot from a motorized boat if the motor was removed from it's mount and laid in the bottom of the boat.
Seems the motor is then considered to be cargo instead of propulsion in the eyes of the law.

I do know of one individual who was charged and convicted in court for having a loaded rifle in a boat. The boat was pulled up on shore.
Wouldn't that be the same as being anchored?

FWIW The rifle was never loaded or fired from the boat. The boat was first beached. The hunter stepped out, loaded the rifle and then fired.
He then leaned the rifle with sent cartridge in the chamber, against the outside of the boat while he went to check on his target.
There was one cartridge still in the magazine and that was the basis of the charge.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

That is not what I was told, and that is a large part of the problem.
Each officer seems to have his own idea of what the wording means.

I was told that one could only shoot from a motorized boat if the motor was removed from it's mount and laid in the bottom of the boat.
Seems the motor is then considered to be cargo instead of propulsion in the eyes of the law.

I do know of one individual who was charged and convicted in court for having a loaded rifle in a boat. The boat was pulled up on shore.
Wouldn't that be the same as being anchored?

FWIW The rifle was never loaded or fired from the boat. The boat was first beached. The hunter stepped out, loaded the rifle and then fired.
He then leaned the rifle with sent cartridge in the chamber, against the outside of the boat while he went to check on his target.
There was one cartridge still in the magazine and that was the basis of the charge.

I think the officer above made a mistake....

On the weekend I was in a community leisure show with an RCMP member who
has been teaching firearms courses. The booth beside us was selling powered and un powered kayaks etc. and asked that specific question about hunting from boats. That's where I got my info but I did just read the regs to double check as there are many mistakes made with the regulations due to bad info or assumptions. Here is what I found.

"It is unlawful to have a loaded firearm (live ammunition in breech, chamber or magazine) in or on, or discharge a weapon from
a boat unless the boat is propelled by muscular power or is at anchor and the person is hunting, or any kind of aircraft or vehicle whether it is moving or stationary".

*Could it be that he was charged because he was not actually hunting? That is a condition and you stated he went to check his target? Was his target game or was it a piece of paper or similar?

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by lannie

I think the officer above made a mistake....

On the weekend I was in a community leisure show with an RCMP member who
has been teaching firearms courses. The booth beside us was selling powered and un powered kayaks etc. and asked that specific question about hunting from boats. That's where I got my info but I did just read the regs to double check as there are many mistakes made with the regulations due to bad info or assumptions. Here is what I found.

"It is unlawful to have a loaded firearm (live ammunition in breech, chamber or magazine) in or on, or discharge a weapon from
a boat unless the boat is propelled by muscular power or is at anchor and the person is hunting, or any kind of aircraft or vehicle whether it is moving or stationary".

*Could it be that he was charged because he was not actually hunting? That is a condition and you stated he went to check his target? Was his target game or was it a piece of paper or similar?

The regs are simply a summary of the Wildlife Act which is the actual law. The wildlife act makes no mention of hunting. Here is the actual text from the Wildlife Act

Use of vehicles, boats and aircraft
33(1) A person shall not
(c) discharge a weapon from a vehicle, aircraft or boat, other than a boat that is propelled by muscular power or anchored, or
(d) have a loaded firearm on or in a vehicle, aircraft or boat, other than a boat so propelled or anchored.

Anchored is a pretty well defined term and indicates that the boat must be afloat in the water to be held stationary by an anchor. A boat on shore is not anchored and the fellow was charged for a loaded firearm "on" a boat, the same as if you lean your loaded rifle against the side of the truck or lay it on the end gate. As for the trolling motor, you could remove the motor and thereby make the boat "muscular powered" (provided it was the only motor on the boat) or you could throw out an anchor. Interestingly the fellow would not have been charged had he leaned his loaded weapon against the side of a beached boat that was non-motorized.

[FCLightning]

Still wondering if there is anyone who knows exactly when this was put into the Wildlife Act. Online previous versions of the Act only go back to 2003 and I know it was law in 1981, but before that....? Anyone?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

The regs are simply a summary of the Wildlife Act which is the actual law. The wildlife act makes no mention of hunting. Here is the actual text from the Wildlife Act
Anchored is a pretty well defined term and indicates that the boat must be afloat in the water to be held stationary by an anchor. A boat on shore is not anchored and the fellow was charged for a loaded firearm "on" a boat, the same as if you lean your loaded rifle against the side of the truck or lay it on the end gate. As for the trolling motor, you could remove the motor and thereby make the boat "muscular powered" (provided it was the only motor on the boat) or you could throw out an anchor. Interestingly the fellow would not have been charged had he leaned his loaded weapon against the side of a beached boat that was non-motorized.

Even if the bow of the boat was on shore, if he had simply put out the anchor, he could argue that the boat was at anchor. But with the anchor still in the boat, the operator was not meeting the conditions required to have a loaded firearm in/on the boat.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Even if the bow of the boat was on shore, if he had simply put out the anchor, he could argue that the boat was at anchor. But with the anchor still in the boat, the operator was not meeting the conditions required to have a loaded firearm in/on the boat.

It would be silly to have to put out an anchor on a boat pulled up on the beach. I have never done that. If I want my boat secured on the bank I tie it to a tree or large rock or a stake driven into the bank,

I think the act may have changed some over the years. I know at one time it it was legal to shoot from a powered boat not anchored so long as the motor was dismounted and laid in the bottom of the boat.

I don't see that mentioned in the act as posted.

If it is still there and simply wasn't included in the post, what else was not included?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

It would be silly to have to put out an anchor on a boat pulled up on the beach. I have never done that. If I want my boat secured on the bank I tie it to a tree or large rock or a stake driven into the bank,

I think the act may have changed some over the years. I know at one time it it was legal to shoot from a powered boat not anchored so long as the motor was dismounted and laid in the bottom of the boat.

I don't see that mentioned in the act as posted.

If it is still there and simply wasn't included in the post, what else was not included?

Is it silly to toss the anchor over the side to avoid being charged? Speaking from experience, we often ran the boat up on a sand beach and put out the anchor, because there were no trees or large rocks in reach. The right kind of anchor stuck into the sand works at least as good as pounding a stake into sand. As far as dismounting the outboard, why bother, when it is a lot easier to simply put out the anchor, and it is legal.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I think the act may have changed some over the years. I know at one time it it was legal to shoot from a powered boat not anchored so long as the motor was dismounted and laid in the bottom of the boat.

I don't see that mentioned in the act as posted.

If it is still there and simply wasn't included in the post, what else was not included?

There is nothing omitted that is of any relevance to this situation. The wording of the act in 2002 (the oldest available online) is identical to the current wording. The notation indicates there was a revision in 1984, but I do not know what that was.
Removing the motor from a boat and putting it in the bottom of the boat would make the boat legal to shoot from - it is no longer a motor boat - the only way to move it would be with muscular power. Would be no different than removing the motor from an old car and then using it as a blind. I don't see why you think there would need to be some different wording in the act to "legalize" such action.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

IAs far as dismounting the outboard, why bother, when it is a lot easier to simply put out the anchor, and it is legal.

Unless you didn't want the boat to be stationary.