Illegal migrants

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Read the book “Next” but Darrell Bricker

Our population is severely declining, it just hasn’t hit yet.
The Maritimes is feeling it already, they have no tax base because the population is mostly older because the young people aren’t staying.

Once the baby boom hits retirement we’ll really be in a pickle.

The country survived with a lower population in the past it may take adjustment but can be done if needed

Like I said I am not opposed to immigration through proper channels but no need to desperately open the floodgates

Everyone has a different vision on what the future should be for me it doesn’t include a ton of people

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Read the book “Next” but Darrell Bricker

Our population is severely declining, it just hasn’t hit yet.
The Maritimes is feeling it already, they have no tax base because the population is mostly older because the young people aren’t staying.

Once the baby boom hits retirement we’ll really be in a pickle.

Agreed. Heck even the Fraser Institute which is a conservative think tank lays it out real well in a summer of 2022 article “Canada’s Aging Population and what it means for government finances “.

And I think something is fishy in that Holland Story. One can read specifically just what it entails for a resident of The Netherlands to immigrate here and stay here. The list of jobs specific towards them from the NOC is long, very Loooooooong.

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

The country survived with a lower population in the past it may take adjustment but can be done if needed

Like I said I am not opposed to immigration through proper channels but no need to desperately open the floodgates

Everyone has a different vision on what the future should be for me it doesn’t include a ton of people

The age demographic split of that lower population was much different than it is today.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by densa44

We have the second largest country in the world and only 35 million people. We also have an aging population, so what is the plan guys, we need to get to 100 million and soon.
This may be hard for lots of people to swallow, but Canada has a people shortage and we need to talk about how we plan to solve it.

More like over 39 million people, and if we need people, bring in people thar will actually contribute to our economy, as in skilled tradesmen, not people with zero skills, or that are too old or sick to work. There are many people in the world that could contribute, that are being held back, while these illegal immigrants come into out country and are given handouts at the taxpayers expense.

[ruffy71]

If the only stable society is a growing society, then where does that end? Does any hunter or fisherman here want to live in this country with 100, 300, 800 million people?

What a nightmare.

We have to figure out how to thrive with a stable population.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by Sporty

Not just laziness, we have Cdns who are fooled into believing that higher education with useless Art History or Social Justice degrees are superior to the lowly trades, contributing little to the economy. Unless they end up with some cushy Government funded study group or task force. You know, those "progressive" folks who have nothing better to contribute other than to redefine traditonal definitions of words in order to be more "inclusive".

You forgot jet setting business owners whose businesses are posting record profits while the middle class disappears with no pay increases fooled by lowly trades jobs that have no pensions and bare bones benefits. It’s always the younger workers fault because their lazy, gimme a break.

[Smoky buck]

Ok instead of growing the population let’s export the dead weight and bring in some hard working people

I could get behind this one for sure

[igorot]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

Illegal migrants enter the United States (typically via Florida or Texas), they get put on buses heading to other states. If they get to NY, the are but on a bus heading to the US/Canada border where they walk into Quebec. And the solution of Ottawa/Quebec is to ship them to other provinces... WTF!?!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...kers-1.6748192

ARG

95 % of these people are not refugees per see. They want to ignore the process or "jump the line." How much would you think it would cost to go to the front door? We are talking of six figures in Canadian dollars.

If the government is really concerned about refugees, process those people in the refugee camps. They are there for a reason

[igorot]

Originally Posted by NCC

Our new neighbors are from Holland. 2 couples (2 nurses, a lawyer and an IT professional), all under 30 and one couple has one child. They came here to get out of the rat race and bought a house in rural AB with plans of working in agriculture. They are now under threat of deportation because they haven’t obtained “skilled employment”. I tried hiring the IT professional but I would have to post the job and prove that no Canadians are available for the position. Allowing all of the illegal immigrants in is nothing more than virtue signalling by the Liberal government because if the government really wanted to increase the population of Canada with productive individuals our new neighbors would have work visas and an open invitation to invite their friends from Holland to follow them over.

If I’m still alive at 75, I’ll be contributing more dollars to social assistance than illegal immigrants will be contributing to my pension or healthcare.

Migrated here 23 years ago and followed the process and it took us 4 years before we landed. It is not a complicated process as other people are trying to imply.

Not trying to be a smart-ass here but with their educational background, they should have known better. FYI I am just a high school graduate. Wife is an IT hence the approval of immigration applications.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

More like over 39 million people, and if we need people, bring in people thar will actually contribute to our economy, as in skilled tradesmen, not people with zero skills, or that are too old or sick to work. There are many people in the world that could contribute, that are being held back, while these illegal immigrants come into out country and are given handouts at the taxpayers expense.

I don't care what anyone else says about you ...... but you are pretty pragmatic and what you said here is very well thought out.

That's really the key here. CONTRIBUTE to our country. Yes, I get the fact we need to help people who are facing TRUE crisis, but people who immigrate here must be fully prepared and capable of contributing.

Otherwise all we are doing is wasting the tax dollars of the rest of us "contributors" on charity and destroying our economy.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

80% of Canada is uninhabitable. We don't need more people to fill it

Hmmm, let me see: in Israel, Jews were able to turn the desert into the blossoming orchards. And build the modern country on the sand…. I think we should import more Jews, haven't seen one on welfare yet…

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by EZM

I don't care what anyone else says about you ...... but you are pretty pragmatic and what you said here is very well thought out.

That's really the key here. CONTRIBUTE to our country. Yes, I get the fact we need to help people who are facing TRUE crisis, but people who immigrate here must be fully prepared and capable of contributing.

Otherwise all we are doing is wasting the tax dollars of the rest of us "contributors" on charity and destroying our economy.

And that being said those who are here need to contribute the country too.
Set the example for those who follow us and those who have been here before us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

If the only stable society is a growing society, then where does that end? Does any hunter or fisherman here want to live in this country with 100, 300, 800 million people?

What a nightmare.

We have to figure out how to thrive with a stable population.

You have nailed it. Our economic system relies on endless growth in perpetuity to function, which obviously is not a long term sustainable model, and we are constantly seeing the unraveling effects of it. Corporate profit and executive compensation have skyrocketed in the past 40 years, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but wages have not even been close to keeping up, which IS a bad thing.

The oil patch is a great example of this. Upstream, midstream, downstream, fully integrated, you name it: the giants of the industry have been making hand over fist cash and record profits. Yet who here working in the patch is making as much hourly doing the same job as in 2014? And what about an inflation adjusted wage? If you were making $40/hr in 2014, you need to be making $50/hr in 2023 for your wage to just be keeping up with the COL (and even then it's severely underrated, the real number is likely closer to $55/hr, and even then I'd hope that if you have 10 more years experience, your wage should increase beyond just COL raises). Not sure how many journeyman rates have made that jump. It's all wage erosion. Yet the second the patch begin drying up, it was layoffs en masse and wage cuts across the board in an instant that take forever to get back where they used to be.

Frankly, the United States and Canada were in the right place at the right time in history--both came out of WWII relatively unscathed while the rest of the world was still licking their war torn wounds or weren't developed at all--so both got a massive economic leg up on the rest of the world. As the technological boom of Moore's Law began in the 70s with computers and then later the internet, this allowed the United States to capture a lot of that economic momentum as well, allowing them to transform their economy away from manufacturing right as countries like China and India began to develop enough into manufacturing powerhouses.

However, Moore's Law has not been holding as true as it once did and thus we aren't making technological advances at the rate that we were before, productivity increases are slowing, and economic growth, even with bottom of the barrel rates creating the cheapest capital available, has been pretty pathetic here in North America the past 10 years, especially if just adjust for the insane speculative valuations of tech companies (remember when a company that essentially straps iPads to spinbikes had a market cap higher than Ford Motor Company?).

The rest of the world is catching up economically from North America's head start, but there is only so much to go around, and it's unfortunately eroding the United States and Canada's economic quality.

The United States might be okay--they are still so powerful by both corporate influence and military might. NYC is still the financial centre of the world, LA is still the entertainment centre of the world, Silicon Valley is still the tech capital of the world, and oil is still sold in USD. Canada is far more worse off--we've been hiding our woefully lacking ability to innovate or compete internationally in the corporate world through real estate and real estate services for GDP growth. The biggest damn house of cards you've ever seen--so when rates have to be raised to curb inflation, this directly hinders Canada's real estate market, so an influx of immigrants is vital to keeping the whole pyramid from falling completely apart.

In essence, we are selling out young people and their children's future of ever owning a home in Canada so we can continue to live in an economic fantasy world.

Hate to be a gloom and doom kinda guy but I'm really not sure how things get better for Canada from here. We're sure lucky we have some resource extraction industries like oil and gas, mining, forestry, and even hydro--but we do an extremely poor job of developing any of them.

[Etownpaul]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Read the book “Next” but Darrell Bricker

Our population is severely declining, it just hasn’t hit yet.
The Maritimes is feeling it already, they have no tax base because the population is mostly older because the young people aren’t staying.

Once the baby boom hits retirement we’ll really be in a pickle.

I just finished the book "The End of the World is Just the Beginning" by Peter Zeihan. It's eye opening how demographics are stacking up for Canada.

The youngest boomers will hit 65 within the next 5 years. The only way we will have enough tax revenue to sustain them is through tax paying immigrants. Covid threw a wrench in the immigration scene and now the government is playing catch up. Without tax payer immigration we will end up like Japan and Germany, where future generations have no hope of having a life better than their parents.

If the boomers want CPP and subsidized healthcare, immigration is the only solution. Encouraging Canadians to have larger families is a solution with a 30 year lead time. We don't have 30 years, we have less than 10. Governments knew this and chose to do nothing about it until now with rampant immigration.

[glen moa]

We have natural resources. This should be the richest country in the world.

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by Etownpaul

Encouraging Canadians to have larger families is a solution with a 30 year lead time. We don't have 30 years, we have less than 10. Governments knew this and chose to do nothing about it until now with rampant immigration.

Ban condoms.
Ban fur babies for y's, z's and Alphas. Only real babies allowed.
Give vouchers to young couples to get a free bottle of wine on Friday night.
Vouchers for free lingerie.
Having Barry White streaming full time on Spotify should help seal the deal.

More seriously, here's a chart that shows how Canada's population is distributed by age. The problem is pretty easy to see.

The Boomer hump is decreasing in size as the Boomers are starting to die.
There's a population bump for the Millenials (Y's) thanks to frisky Boomers.

There's a dip in the population for the x's. There was a lot of social change that took place in the 70's that would have contributed to the lower birth rate.
The real problem is that the population starts to decrease after gen Y. Clearly the X's and Y's are dropping the ball. It's too late for the x's to chip in but there is still opportunity for the Y's to get busy.

There will not be enough z's and Alphas to sustain our country without imposing huge tax increases on them. Hence the need for immigration.

Agree with the poster I quoted that gov't needs to do what it can to encourage people to have children.

I should have mentioned; Alpha's are the youngest generation that follow the z's.

[6.5 shooter]

Canada is broken. Keep electing clowns and get a clown show.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Etownpaul

I just finished the book "The End of the World is Just the Beginning" by Peter Zeihan. It's eye opening how demographics are stacking up for Canada.

The youngest boomers will hit 65 within the next 5 years. The only way we will have enough tax revenue to sustain them is through tax paying immigrants. Covid threw a wrench in the immigration scene and now the government is playing catch up. Without tax payer immigration we will end up like Japan and Germany, where future generations have no hope of having a life better than their parents.

If the boomers want CPP and subsidized healthcare, immigration is the only solution. Encouraging Canadians to have larger families is a solution with a 30 year lead time. We don't have 30 years, we have less than 10. Governments knew this and chose to do nothing about it until now with rampant immigration.

But population is only useful, if they are productive, letting in immigrants that don't contribute, just increases the number of people that society needs to support. So we need to be selective about who we let in, stop making candidates that could be productive wait years, while so called refugees ,with no potential simply walk across the border. We need more workers, and less gang bangers, terrorists, drug dealers, and welfare bums, yet that is what many of the refugees turn out to be.

[sewerrat]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

Well if they weren’t crossing into Canada how would Trudeau ever win an election.

These people need to become a Canadian first before they can vote and that process is not to quick.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sewerrat

These people need to become a Canadian first before they can vote and that process is not to quick.

Give Trudeau time, he will change the process to get those votes.

[ruffy71]

illegal migrants are not a new thing, so is there any data on these people?

How many of them remain on the dole for the rest of their lives? I agree legal immigrants selected for their skills get productive faster, but does that mean that 95% of illegal migrants are useless for the rest of their lives?

[Big Grey Wolf]

I like J Stubbs and Big Sky posts just above both very wise individuals. Big Sky missed one point on more kids. Should manufacture birth control pills with fake powder and no abortions allowed like Americans.
PS Then us grand parents would have more grandchildren to spoil.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Etownpaul

I just finished the book "The End of the World is Just the Beginning" by Peter Zeihan. It's eye opening how demographics are stacking up for Canada.

The youngest boomers will hit 65 within the next 5 years. The only way we will have enough tax revenue to sustain them is through tax paying immigrants. Covid threw a wrench in the immigration scene and now the government is playing catch up. Without tax payer immigration we will end up like Japan and Germany, where future generations have no hope of having a life better than their parents.

If the boomers want CPP and subsidized healthcare, immigration is the only solution. Encouraging Canadians to have larger families is a solution with a 30 year lead time. We don't have 30 years, we have less than 10. Governments knew this and chose to do nothing about it until now with rampant immigration.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But population is only useful, if they are productive, letting in immigrants that don't contribute, just increases the number of people that society needs to support. So we need to be selective about who we let in, stop making candidates that could be productive wait years, while so called refugees ,with no potential simply walk across the border. We need more workers, and less gang bangers, terrorists, drug dealers, and welfare bums, yet that is what many of the refugees turn out to be.

Elk is spot on. Productive contributors, be they Canadian citizens or immigrants are the ones that should be having kids or immigrating.

We definitely don't need to encourage Canadians en masse to have larger families, as unfortunately you don't need a license to become a parent. You can't selectively decide who should and who should not be having children. There has been enough unfettered breeding in Canada, which has often created a reliance on social services. This reliance social services can become a generational career path for many. The more kids that get shot out of the baby cannon, the more social assistance they are entitled to. More kids definitely doesn't equate a loving, stable and productive family unit.

As far as "future generations have no hope of having a life better than their parents", why do they need to have that? Since the great depression, every generation has wanted their kids to have a better life. I get that, as the dirty thirties were likely the toughest times that North America every experienced. However since the end of WW2 pretty much everything has gotten better and easier. How much better does one's life need to be? Is it a 20 hour work week, a 4000 sq' home, two vehicles each, 10K calories a day, maybe two TV's per room, escalators and elevators in the home.......? I don't think that scaling back on material goods or convenience is necessarily a bad thing at all, the need for instant gratification certainly isn't sustainable. Many talk of the "good ol' days" or yearn for the "simple life", yet so many still think that their kids are entitled to a better life than they had. People shouldn't be entitled to a so-called better life than there parents, all that does is propagate a sense of entitlement.

[Bigwoodsman]

Since Canada started to accept immigrants due to the Ukraine war and since October 2022 we have had 5 of these immigrants apply for work at our business. We offered jobs to all 5 with 4 accepting work with us. Others in our building have hired Ukrainian workers with excellent results.

Hard working people, who don't want a handout. Has been a great experience for us.

BW

[58thecat]

We sure like to surround ourselves with first world problems, if you gotta have problems then I guess these are the good ones to have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stinky Buffalo]

That's encouraging to hear, BW.

I've heard some horror stories, but they seem to be in the minority.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

Ban condoms.
Ban fur babies for y's, z's and Alphas. Only real babies allowed.
Give vouchers to young couples to get a free bottle of wine on Friday night.
Vouchers for free lingerie.
Having Barry White streaming full time on Spotify should help seal the deal.

More seriously, here's a chart that shows how Canada's population is distributed by age. The problem is pretty easy to see.

The Boomer hump is decreasing in size as the Boomers are starting to die.
There's a population bump for the Millenials (Y's) thanks to frisky Boomers.

There's a dip in the population for the x's. There was a lot of social change that took place in the 70's that would have contributed to the lower birth rate.
The real problem is that the population starts to decrease after gen Y. Clearly the X's and Y's are dropping the ball. It's too late for the x's to chip in but there is still opportunity for the Y's to get busy.

There will not be enough z's and Alphas to sustain our country without imposing huge tax increases on them. Hence the need for immigration.

Agree with the poster I quoted that gov't needs to do what it can to encourage people to have children.

I should have mentioned; Alpha's are the youngest generation that follow the z's.

The encouragement of fornication is definitely an excellent idea with merit.

Our current tax system does provide reduced tax rates for those who are producing offspring who will become future tax payers.

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

If the only stable society is a growing society, then where does that end? Does any hunter or fisherman here want to live in this country with 100, 300, 800 million people?

What a nightmare.

We have to figure out how to thrive with a stable population.

Consider Germany. Germany is half size of Alberta, with population of 84 million. Alberta 2x size of Germany with 4.5 million. There is little big game hunting in Germany. The low population is what allows Albertans to utilize our natural resources. We have natural barriers (temperature, Lattitude, geography).

[ruffy71]

I agree, I've seen pictures of European 'forests'. I'm sure there are still few here and there, but most of what they call a forest, we call them gardens here.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by KGB

Hmmm, let me see: in Israel, Jews were able to turn the desert into the blossoming orchards. And build the modern country on the sand…. I think we should import more Jews, haven't seen one on welfare yet…

What sort of orchards would you expect to get around Churchill?

ARG