Pros & Cons - 3.5" 12 ga. options

[Andrzej]

Shooting steel is different than shooting lead.
3" magnum of Lead could push 17/8 oz at 1150-1200 ft/sec but 11/4 oz would have velocity 1330-1350 ft/sec so poor shooter at close range would benefit from bigger payload at lower velocity but would not compete with good shooter at longer ranges.
IMO shooting steel is different. VELOCITY is most important.
If you can shoot more pellets at the same velocity like less pellets, than it is better to have bigger chamber.
Looks like 3.5" loads in latest steel offerings have same velocity as 23/4" so there is advantage to get bigger chamber and more pellets flying at the same velocity.

Bigger steel pellets at the same velocity as smaller (and same payload) will have more momentum, more killing power at longer ranges but less density.

BBB or T's at 1700 ft/sec should be ticket for those 50-60 yards pass shoots with steel but you don't need to use those if you hunting over decoys.

I think that #2 steel at 1700 ft/sec is close to performance of #2 lead at 1300ft/sec with more pellets per oz as steel is lighter.

[marlin1]

Originally Posted by SwampShark

Hey guys - thanks for the info so far. I'm not going to touch the bird crippling discussion

I missed my chance at the Nova - seems the online Cabelas sale is over. I think I will go 3.5" just to have the option. As it seems is common with many of you , I don't plan on shooting 3.5" that much but if I can get a gun capable of it for the same price then why not?!

What is the difference between Moss 535 ATS and Moss 838 Ulti-Mag? It'll either be one of these or a Rem 870 Express 3.5. Unfortunately, I'm not going to drop the money right now for a Wingmaster.

just about to pull the trigger on the super nova purchase . IMO looks like it fills the bill . Handled one last week and shoulders well . Does it all with little complaints from what I've come up with . May never shoot the 3.5 but nice to have the option . just my 2 cents

[BernieL]

I've put the 3.5 in the magazine 1st so its my last shot and put 3 inch shells for the rest.
1st two shots are 3 inch. Last shot 3.5 inch
That last shot always is the farthest.

[dbilyea]

I have a Mossburg 535. I love it. Pretty accurate and it will really reach out there with the 3.5". Your shoulder does get a little tired of it. Well worth the money for the price.

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by SwampShark

What is the difference between Moss 535 ATS and Moss 838 Ulti-Mag? It'll either be one of these or a Rem 870 Express 3.5. Unfortunately, I'm not going to drop the money right now for a Wingmaster.

835 is "overbored"

[southernman]

Intresting how this thread is playing out.
I usually shoot a 16ga semi for geese, hand loads, non toxic shot.
I have found that recoil in a 3.5' shell in a 12ga is very sharp, repetitive harsh recoil, is not conclusive to shooting well over a day,
The few times I now use a 12ga, I normally use a 3" #2 shot shell, If birds are decoying wide, I will sum times go back to the truck for the 10ga,
After patterning all my, and a mates shotguns, I can say that none of the three shotguns, capable of 3.5" 12ga, would pattern any 3.5" load worth a dam, but all did great with at least one 3", and ok with most others.
However the ten gauge patterned well, nice even, every 3.5" load tried, (4) two factory, two hand load.

I did find, that I tended to short stroke a 3.5" pump once in a while.
3.5" shot guns are heaver that a 3", this my be important if you are walking a lot.
3.5" ammo is expensive.
My pick of the 3.5" pumps would be a Nova.
But recommend a wing master 12ga 3" instead.
shotgun fit is more important than, gauge or bore, try a few and see what feel right, Good shotgun fit allows, instinctive shooting, from hand eye cordation.
And finally if you think you need 3.5" 12ga for hunting, Go join a skeet and trap club for a few rounds,
Then we, will see you in the field, with 3" or 2 3/4" ammo,

[elkhunter11]

And finally if you think you need 3.5" 12ga for hunting, Go join a skeet and trap club for a few rounds,
Then we, will see you in the field, with 3" or 2 3/4" ammo,

Isn't it just amazing how often the people that are shooting thousands of rounds per year , end up shooting light loads, or even the sub gauges. After a person's shooting gets to a certain level, they realize that they don't really need to use heavy loads.

[SwampShark]

Well I went to try a few of the 12 ga. options on for size.

I wasn't a fan of how the 870 fit me. I didn't like all of the play in the Mossberg pump. This is apparently normal and not an issue, but it just felt flimsy.

... what I actually really liked was the Win SXP series. Everyone (on AOF and elsewhere) keeps telling me that the "feel" is most important when deciding on a 12 ga. so I'm leaning towards the SXP. Does anyone have thoughts on these guns?

Also, I could end up going 3" if the rest of my parameters are there. It would be a nice-to-have, but probably not needed.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by SwampShark

Well I went to try a few of the 12 ga. options on for size.

I wasn't a fan of how the 870 fit me. I didn't like all of the play in the Mossberg pump. This is apparently normal and not an issue, but it just felt flimsy.

... what I actually really liked was the Win SXP series. Everyone (on AOF and elsewhere) keeps telling me that the "feel" is most important when deciding on a 12 ga. so I'm leaning towards the SXP. Does anyone have thoughts on these guns?

Also, I could end up going 3" if the rest of my parameters are there. It would be a nice-to-have, but probably not needed.

check my sig.

the fit was great on mine. it has a good recoil pad and even blows back and ejects the shell for you.

i have shot about 20 boxes of lead target loads through it and it performs flawlessly. i havent tried steel as i have no use for it yet.

i walked into bass pro and had no idea what i wanted and i tried many guns but ended up with the SXP. i preferred it over the supernova even. felt way nicer.

[Rockman]

I have an SXP too and like it a lot. It's my first shotgun, but I have shot others and shouldered all of Rem, Mossberg, Browning, Benelli, etc. (pumps). I liked the Browning and Winchester best. Browning did feel heavier and maybe a bit more solid, but I got a good chance at this winchester, so went this way.

I hunted one season with it so far and have no regrets. Think I'll keep it.

Oh... as to fit. I have about 14.25" LOP and am a 6'1" light guy. Rem and mossberg were too short for me and I would have had to increase their LOP so as to shoulder comfortably. Browning felt best in this regard, and was very solid, but a good deal heavier. This one is a touch short but I'll probably extend it with an aftermarket pad once I get around to it. Still better than all except the browning for me and my size.

I've shot this a whole bunch (2.75" and 3") and never feel a thing afterwards.

[Rockman]

PS: Except for one time when I shouldered it wrong and just one shot gave me a good bruise. But in other words, it shoulders well for me and shoots great for a pump, IMO.

[Elk Chaser]

I shoot a Hatsen and I love it, had a Moss 835, Stoeger 2000 and they both sucked.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Shooting steel is different than shooting lead.
3" magnum of Lead could push 17/8 oz at 1150-1200 ft/sec but 11/4 oz would have velocity 1330-1350 ft/sec so poor shooter at close range would benefit from bigger payload at lower velocity but would not compete with good shooter at longer ranges.
IMO shooting steel is different. VELOCITY is most important.
If you can shoot more pellets at the same velocity like less pellets, than it is better to have bigger chamber.
Looks like 3.5" loads in latest steel offerings have same velocity as 23/4" so there is advantage to get bigger chamber and more pellets flying at the same velocity.

Bigger steel pellets at the same velocity as smaller (and same payload) will have more momentum, more killing power at longer ranges but less density.

BBB or T's at 1700 ft/sec should be ticket for those 50-60 yards pass shoots with steel but you don't need to use those if you hunting over decoys.

I think that #2 steel at 1700 ft/sec is close to performance of #2 lead at 1300ft/sec with more pellets per oz as steel is lighter.

Finally .. someone nailed it. Modern 3" steel loads at 1600 + fps trump the old 2 3/4 lead stuff at 1300 by quite a margin. So does a 3 1/2" 1.5 oz steel load at 1500 fps. When patterned properly either of these loads will absolutely crush Geese at 60 yds. That isn't a recommendation to make a habit of it , but it sure can be done quite consistently. Seems to me a lot of 3rd shots taken at decoyed Gesse are at that range anyway .. No ?

[anthony5]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Finally .. someone nailed it. Modern 3" steel loads at 1600 + fps trump the old 2 3/4 lead stuff at 1300 by quite a margin. So does a 3 1/2" 1.5 oz steel load at 1500 fps. When patterned properly either of these loads will absolutely crush Geese at 60 yds. That isn't a recommendation to make a habit of it , but it sure can be done quite consistently. Seems to me a lot of 3rd shots taken at decoyed Gesse are at that range anyway .. No ?

Sal, I know this is quite common in my part of the prairies and 60 yards is not the norm but quite doable. The Odd time it is the shot taken to down a cripple, which does happen at closer yardage.

[Ithaca Dog]

3.5 inch shells kill more cleanly and farther out. More pellets mean more hits mean more birds. Pattern your shotgun to find your guns best load and shell.

Resale is usually better with 3.5 inch shells

That's it for the positive

Negative.
They hurt. Recoil sucks.
The shells are expensive.
Your gun is heavier


I wish I would have stayed with a 3" gun. I rarely shoot over 40 yards. I always patterned my gun and had good patterns because of it. I killed lots of birds with my smaller 12 ga. I usually shoot 3" shells out of my 3.5" gun now.

But.... I have the option. On a pass shoot or on birds that don't want to commit and flare I move to the big shells and do well. I have shot lots though and shoot in the off season. This is essential for making it worth it.

Most waterfowlers don't shoot well enough to make it worth it in my opinion.

Oh. And buy the Bennelli.

[Ithaca Dog]

Originally Posted by SwampShark

Hey guys - thanks for the info so far. I'm not going to touch the bird crippling discussion

I missed my chance at the Nova - seems the online Cabelas sale is over. I think I will go 3.5" just to have the option. As it seems is common with many of you , I don't plan on shooting 3.5" that much but if I can get a gun capable of it for the same price then why not?!

What is the difference between Moss 535 ATS and Moss 838 Ulti-Mag? It'll either be one of these or a Rem 870 Express 3.5. Unfortunately, I'm not going to drop the money right now for a Wingmaster.

I think the 835 has a slightly bigger bore resulting in better patterns. But it's a bit heavier. This would be my choice.

[Ithaca Dog]

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Shooting steel is different than shooting lead.
3" magnum of Lead could push 17/8 oz at 1150-1200 ft/sec but 11/4 oz would have velocity 1330-1350 ft/sec so poor shooter at close range would benefit from bigger payload at lower velocity but would not compete with good shooter at longer ranges.
IMO shooting steel is different. VELOCITY is most important.
If you can shoot more pellets at the same velocity like less pellets, than it is better to have bigger chamber.
Looks like 3.5" loads in latest steel offerings have same velocity as 23/4" so there is advantage to get bigger chamber and more pellets flying at the same velocity.

Bigger steel pellets at the same velocity as smaller (and same payload) will have more momentum, more killing power at longer ranges but less density.

BBB or T's at 1700 ft/sec should be ticket for those 50-60 yards pass shoots with steel but you don't need to use those if you hunting over decoys.

I think that #2 steel at 1700 ft/sec is close to performance of #2 lead at 1300ft/sec with more pellets per oz as steel is lighter.

BINGO. In a well patterned load