999 is the best

[Dean2]

Alberta has an absolutely great system for priorities. The 999 is one of the great keys to why it works so extremely well and gives far more people the opportunity to hunt. Nothing worse than systems that force you to enter the live draw, whether you can use the tag that year or not., Unused draws are just wasted opportunities someone else could use. Keep the 999 for sure.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Alberta has an absolutely great system for priorities. The 999 is one of the great keys to why it works so extremely well and gives far more people the opportunity to hunt. Nothing worse than systems that force you to enter the live draw, whether you can use the tag that year or not., Unused draws are just wasted opportunities someone else could use. Keep the 999 for sure.

Great point on the unused tag issue.

[MathewsArcher]

Best feature of the draw system.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Never concerned myself with people using 999, I don't see the issue except for the jealously factor.
If a person has built up points well good for them!
Cat

that's exactly it.

the people before us had to work and wait for it but we don't want to!

[kman35ca]

Ya I 999d pretty much everything. Even a Bow hunt. Gonna buy a Bow as soon as I find a good deal and have the cash for it. Then that gives me time to practice, get decent with it and when I am confident enough in my abilities hopefully I will get drawn ASAP. This year gun and Crossbow. The Crossbow hunt should give me some experience on getting close and learning some stuff.

[slough shark]

It is a system that allows 100% certainty of planning if used correctly. When I was younger I used zones that were next to impossible to get drawn for the same purpose (402 for bull moose as an example). The capability has always been there but it just makes it easier to plan, I likenit.

[Ken H]

I had to 999 everything this year as well. Time will not be on my side this fall. Hopefully next year will be better and I can draw one of my tags. I will be able to draw for trophy antelope, antlered and antlerless mule deer in any zone with the priority I have accumulated.

[Roughneck Country]

999 is the best part of our draw system IMO. I have never pulled a tag yet and it has never bothered me, there are so many general season tags available I have never had an issue figuring out something to hunt.

[jawa]

A great tool not only for planning your hunt but managing how many tags get drawn if you hunt as a group or a family.

[SD1797]

Originally Posted by dustinjoels

999 is the best. Those that don't like it are using it wrong.

I hunt in a group with about 8-10 regulars. 999 means we can stack our draws so that we get 1-2 moose draws a year and 1-2 elk draws a year amongst our group. This is very important since we share all our meat amongst a few families. Without 999 we'd probably go without moose meat some years and I like my moose meat.

Also it allows me to stagger hunts that are special to me. I can set it up so my wainwright hunt, southern Alberta mulie hunt, and moose hunts fall on different years. Maybe mix in an antelope hunt on a year where I have nothing (it's up to me). This is very important to me in regards to scheduling time off work and family commitments. There's no way I could do all the hunts in a year if 999 didn't exist and I happened to get drawn for everything. Also it wouldn't be as fun if I had to wait 3-4 years between getting to do a special travel hunt.

I gladly sometimes let som of you go ahead of me on a particular draw even though I have ample priority to get drawn so that I can draw my tag for a year that I actually have the time available to put towards the hunt that is required for me to enjoy it and hopefully be successful.

Those that don't use 999, you're welcome for me letting you go ahead of me sometimes, and don't hate on me for accumulating points because I understand the system and how to use it to most benefit my experience in the field.

Couldn't agree more! Well said, great post.

[JoshT]

Even as someone who is new to hunting, I have to agree! I think 999 is a great system along with albertarelm! Easy to navigate and I can build priority while I become a better hunter and secure permission.

[cody j]

999 is a good thing. I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

[husky7mm]

To be very clear , I completely understand the priority system and 999. It works/worked pretty good but its flaws are starting to show as the time marches on. Its works great for low priority draws and the less popular ones too. One of my concerns is that 999 has changed the dynamics and the style in which people apply and I see future problems coming very soon. Its kind of like chess, you need to think 2-3 moves ahead not just one.

Another attempt at an axample.

Joe hunter mostly hunts close to home and mostly whitetail deer, sometimes elk because they are general. He doesnt get many holidays, maybe oneday....Every year he along with his buddy, his wife and out of province step dad all put in for moose, mule buck, mule doe, bull elk, sheep, antelope, and turkey. ( all this for a hefty $22 for the whole group) No one really has the time or funds to go on these hunts ( which is completly normal) no one really knows what unit they want to be drawn in but...... Someday. In the mean time they 999 to build up points. This has been going on for 8 years. Joe and the group feel really good about them selves because they are letting people move past them until they stars all line up just right and they can all go for a dream season. Joe and most of the group rest easy in the fact that they can, and will trump most of the people that dont hoard points, or are new hunting if they can finally one day get it together, or a hot unit comes up. Those with a lesser priority will just have to wait till next year. Oneday.......

There are dozens if not hundreds of new joes created every year, one day their numbers will be majority and there will be no end to the line and few chances to move forward.
Had 999 not been an option, they would have taken a pass on so many applications because of timing, funds, lack of knowledge, and life making other plans.
If some of you folks cant see this as valid concern you have no foresight. What colour is the sky in your world joe?

[ishootbambi]

You highlight a growing problem in the world Husky. Not many have the ability to think things through and analyze anything beyond the end of their own nose. 999 does not sit on the sideline watching the world go by. It's a free pass to the front of the line that will displace someone. It's already happening but only a small blip at this point. It IS growing though and you the time the oblivious clue in it will be to late to tweak and a full reboot will be required.

999 is not the only problem, and for now it's a minor one....but this WILL blow up before long.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by slough shark

It is a system that allows 100% certainty of planning if used correctly.

I'll bet you 100 dollars you are wrong.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

To be very clear , I completely understand the priority system and 999. It works/worked pretty good but its flaws are starting to show as the time marches on. Its works great for low priority draws and the less popular ones too. One of my concerns is that 999 has changed the dynamics and the style in which people apply and I see future problems coming very soon. Its kind of like chess, you need to think 2-3 moves ahead not just one.

Another attempt at an axample.

Joe hunter mostly hunts close to home and mostly whitetail deer, sometimes elk because they are general. He doesnt get many holidays, maybe oneday....Every year he along with his buddy, his wife and out of province step dad all put in for moose, mule buck, mule doe, bull elk, sheep, antelope, and turkey. ( all this for a hefty $22 for the whole group) No one really has the time or funds to go on these hunts ( which is completly normal) no one really knows what unit they want to be drawn in but...... Someday. In the mean time they 999 to build up points. This has been going on for 8 years. Joe and the group feel really good about them selves because they are letting people move past them until they stars all line up just right and they can all go for a dream season. Joe and most of the group rest easy in the fact that they can, and will trump most of the people that dont hoard points, or are new hunting if they can finally one day get it together, or a hot unit comes up. Those with a lesser priority will just have to wait till next year. Oneday.......

There are dozens if not hundreds of new joes created every year, one day their numbers will be majority and there will be no end to the line and few chances to move forward.
Had 999 not been an option, they would have taken a pass on so many applications because of timing, funds, lack of knowledge, and life making other plans.
If some of you folks cant see this as valid concern you have no foresight. What colour is the sky in your world joe?

If your scenario is accurate, this same group will NEVER have the means to use all the priorities they have spent years applying for, unless they win the lottery. If they use one or two eventually, then the system is working fine. Even if they use them all, it took them more than ten years to build the priorities so why should some frist or second year applicant feel he has been done badly by. There are quite a few draws province wide where a 0 or 1 priority will get you drawn so a guy using a ten or 12 on the same draw isn't hurting anything. For draws like Trophy Antelope, that takes at least a 9 to get drawn, if you hadn't put in a 999 for 8 years how would you ever expect to be successful?

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Dean2

For draws like Trophy Antelope, that takes at least a 9 to get drawn, if you hadn't put in a 999 for 8 years how would you ever expect to be successful?

Apply using an actual draw code.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

Had 999 not been an option, they would have taken a pass on so many applications because of timing, funds, lack of knowledge, and life making other plans.

Here-in lies the crux of the argument^^^^
Some say the forced tags would weed out the non serious drawees.
Some say the wait times will increase as more guys are serious about pulling those tags than was originally thought.

Who's to say which one is more accurate? I believe that more guys are serious about drawing and filling these tags than you believe. If that's the case, wait times will increase. If you are correct in thinking it will remove guys like Joe out of the line-up, then wait times will decrease.

Dave is correct, there are a lot more important items that need addressing first. Like residency requirement for example (sorry to beat a dead horse). And non-res allotments.

Husky: what would you propose? Getting rid of 999 and staying with the same system? Lottery? Hybrid where priority is capped? You have a legitimate argument and I would love to hear your solution.
Tyler

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

To be very clear , I completely understand the priority system and 999. It works/worked pretty good but its flaws are starting to show as the time marches on. Its works great for low priority draws and the less popular ones too. One of my concerns is that 999 has changed the dynamics and the style in which people apply and I see future problems coming very soon. Its kind of like chess, you need to think 2-3 moves ahead not just one.

Another attempt at an axample.

Joe hunter mostly hunts close to home and mostly whitetail deer, sometimes elk because they are general. He doesnt get many holidays, maybe oneday....Every year he along with his buddy, his wife and out of province step dad all put in for moose, mule buck, mule doe, bull elk, sheep, antelope, and turkey. ( all this for a hefty $22 for the whole group) No one really has the time or funds to go on these hunts ( which is completly normal) no one really knows what unit they want to be drawn in but...... Someday. In the mean time they 999 to build up points. This has been going on for 8 years. Joe and the group feel really good about them selves because they are letting people move past them until they stars all line up just right and they can all go for a dream season. Joe and most of the group rest easy in the fact that they can, and will trump most of the people that dont hoard points, or are new hunting if they can finally one day get it together, or a hot unit comes up. Those with a lesser priority will just have to wait till next year. Oneday.......

There are dozens if not hundreds of new joes created every year, one day their numbers will be majority and there will be no end to the line and few chances to move forward.
Had 999 not been an option, they would have taken a pass on so many applications because of timing, funds, lack of knowledge, and life making other plans.
If some of you folks cant see this as valid concern you have no foresight. What colour is the sky in your world joe?

You bring up a valid point and I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with you. But let's say there was no 999 system and Joe hunter has been applying for a moose tag in wmu xxx and it generally takes a priority 4 to get one of 50 tags-(just throwing a number out there). Now instead of say 200 applicants with a 4 priority under the 999 system there will now be 500 or 1000 applicants-(because of no 999 system) with a priority 4 applying for those same 50 tags. His chances of ever drawing that tag are greatly reduced.

[elkhunter11]

999 does not sit on the sideline watching the world go by. It's a free pass to the front of the line that will displace someone.

By using 999 ,you aren't really displacing anyone, you simply have more points than the person that feels that he was displaced. And the only way to get those points, is to apply every year, and build them at one point per year. If two people start from scratch and one person uses the 999 option, and the other person applies to draw every year, the odds are that the person using 999 will not draw before the other person. The only exception would be if the lowest priority drawn was exactly what both people had accumulated, and the person using 999 was simply luckier. Some people get angry when based on the draw stats , they expect to draw, but they don't draw because some people that had used 999 previously, decided to draw that year. However, before the 999 option existed, the same thing could happen, because people that had applied with someone with no priority in order to build priority without drawing, could have decided to simply apply without the low priority person, and they would draw tags.
And even if the person with 999 drawing results in a person with less priority not drawing, the fact remains that the person that drew waited longer to draw, which is how a priority system is designed to work.

Originally Posted by husky7mm View Post
Had 999 not been an option, they would have taken a pass on so many applications because of timing, funds, lack of knowledge, and life making other plans.

Anyone with a clue would have simply done what myself and others did before 999 existed. We simply applied with people that did not have enough priority to draw. The end result was that we still built priority without drawing, but the side effect is that people with no intention of applying also gained priority points, and once they had accumulated some points, some decided that since they already had some points, they might as well keep applying on their own. The result was that them applying to draw decreased the chances of other people drawing.

[husky7mm]

Originally Posted by Dean2

If your scenario is accurate, this same group will NEVER have the means to use all the priorities they have spent years applying for, unless they win the lottery. If they use one or two eventually, then the system is working fine. Even if they use them all, it took them more than ten years to build the priorities so why should some frist or second year applicant feel he has been done badly by. There are quite a few draws province wide where a 0 or 1 priority will get you drawn so a guy using a ten or 12 on the same draw isn't hurting anything. For draws like Trophy Antelope, that takes at least a 9 to get drawn, if you hadn't put in a 999 for 8 years how would you ever expect to be successful?

You missed the part where I stated that new joes and groups of joes are being created every year. It doesnt matter if they this group can't get it all together at once, there are 100's if not 1000's that will. One day we can change the name from the draw system to the line system.
Imo the wait times will decrease if 999 is cancelled. I am a religious hunter, I think about it hourly, I hunt, scout year round. I eat sleep and breath hunting, but I also know that there is only so much free time, so I dont put in for lottery tags that I have no real chance of making it happen. That said though for less than $4 a year I will not hesitate to build priorities for a someday hunt, I have almost nothing to loose. 10 points will mean crap one day when almost everyone has 18, right?

[pikeslayer22]

999 works great for me thus far...I have never used it but have been able to pick up a lot of tags with 0 to 3 priority!

[ishootbambi]

^^^ EH, I have to believe you are smarter than that. Think longer term. If that point hoarding was not permitted so easily do you reckon Joe Meathead would have P20 on everything? I've seen a couple posts already today saying it's only 3 bucks....and another where someone...NOT a newbie wants to 999 antlerless moose after applying for antlered moose. Perfect example of why 999 disappearing would clear out a bunch not bright enough to use the system as intended let alone manipulate it. I have no problem letting the weak and the slow fall behind. I feel that way about the world in general. STOP interfering with Darwin. The weak are growing in numbers...it's clear looking at two recent elections.

[husky7mm]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

You bring up a valid point and I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with you. But let's say there was no 999 system and Joe hunter has been applying for a moose tag in wmu xxx and it generally takes a priority 4 to get one of 50 tags-(just throwing a number out there). Now instead of say 200 applicants with a 4 priority under the 999 system there will now be 500 or 1000 applicants-(because of no 999 system) with a priority 4 applying for those same 50 tags. His chances of ever drawing that tag are greatly reduced.

Imo the super high priorities will either be drawn ( and dry up) or skip applying some years to wait for a better year, and one they can make it. Other units less desirable or handy will see way less shotgun applications and they will be prime for the folks that really will make that hunt happen.

[husky7mm]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Anyone with a clue would have simply done what myself and others did before 999 existed. We simply applied with people that did not have enough priority to draw. The end result was that we still built priority without drawing, but the side effect is that people with no intention of applying also gained priority points, and once they had accumulated some points, some decided that since they already had some points, they might as well keep applying on their own. The result was that them applying to draw decreased the chances of other people drawing.

If it were up to me that loop hole would be closed.

[Huntnut]

Just to illustrate what some have been saying there's a sheep draw I've been putting in for since it started-except one year I forgot to while I was in the midst of moving, that dropped me from the top priority list. As it stands it will be 10 years before all the applicants in the priority ahead of me are all drawn. I keep applying-not 999ing-hoping that enough of them ahead of me will 999 and I will get drawn.

[bowhunter9841]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

I have no problem letting the weak and the slow fall behind. I feel that way about the world in general. STOP interfering with Darwin. The weak are growing in numbers...it's clear looking at two recent elections.

I agree with you on this, I still am in disbelief of the outcome of our provincial, and federal elections. I'm hoping to wake up from that nightmare soon!!

Back to 999, I like the system, as stated in other threads. But I do have to agree with you on the fact that there are clearly people applying that should go back and read the rules and regulations. Kinda makes a guy wonder if any of these new hunters actually took hunters education, or if they just lied on their win card application!!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

^^^ EH, I have to believe you are smarter than that. Think longer term. If that point hoarding was not permitted so easily do you reckon Joe Meathead would have P20 on everything? I've seen a couple posts already today saying it's only 3 bucks....and another where someone...NOT a newbie wants to 999 antlerless moose after applying for antlered moose. Perfect example of why 999 disappearing would clear out a bunch not bright enough to use the system as intended let alone manipulate it. I have no problem letting the weak and the slow fall behind. I feel that way about the world in general. STOP interfering with Darwin. The weak are growing in numbers...it's clear looking at two recent elections.

You are correct in that the not so bright people would not be able to manipulate the system, but then again, the not so bright people aren't usually smart enough to use 999 to advantage either. Many of them just apply until they get drawn, and when they get drawn, they often just don't purchase the tags. I know one individual that did exactly that with a wmu 437 sheep tag. At less than $4 per application, he applied for everything that he could, and then when he realized that a sheep hunt wasn't as easy as riding his atv up to a sheep and shooting it, he just didn't purchase the tag.
I also know people that didn't use 999 and drew, and then were upset because they didn't want to draw that year. They could have used 999, but they hadn't made the effort to learn what 999 was, so they didn't use it.

If it were up to me that loop hole would be closed.

And just how do you propose to close that loop hole without eliminating group draws altogether?

[husky7mm]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

Here-in lies the crux of the argument^^^^
Some say the forced tags would weed out the non serious drawees.
Some say the wait times will increase as more guys are serious about pulling those tags than was originally thought.

Who's to say which one is more accurate? I believe that more guys are serious about drawing and filling these tags than you believe. If that's the case, wait times will increase. If you are correct in thinking it will remove guys like Joe out of the line-up, then wait times will decrease.

Dave is correct, there are a lot more important items that need addressing first. Like residency requirement for example (sorry to beat a dead horse). And non-res allotments.

Husky: what would you propose? Getting rid of 999 and staying with the same system? Lottery? Hybrid where priority is capped? You have a legitimate argument and I would love to hear your solution.
Tyler

That is like trying to hold a turd by the "clean end", it would be a real challenge.

I spent a number of years in BC and put in every year, mostly draws with low odds a bit off the beaten path. Mostly group moose. 1 tag for two hunters but two applications so two chances at the draw. We ate moose almost every year. I was really excited to put in every year cause in reality anything could happen. Many that applied for the 25-1 odds never drew a tag after 5-10 years of applying. I have to wonder how bad they really wanted to hunt moose to apply for such a high odds hunt but I guess they could only see themselves hunting that unit.
In the mean time most of the other units that were not as desirable (for one reason or other) enjoyed NO increase in the odds. Its the same today. Different people types but every year there was a brand new chance at whatever you put in for. Because of 999 and point hoarding those "less desirable units are requiring more points every year as people give up on the unattainable ones and except reality. Pretty soon it will take 8 points for a crappy unit and 16 for a decent one.

I would make 999 a limited option, within reason. The draws would cost a bit more and all applicants would pay. The money would go to wildlife!!!! Paying up front for tags is not a bad thing, like someone mentioned earlier its still way less than the fuel it takes to get there. It would weed out the non serious and those that would even waste the tag. I see mountains of waste and laziness everyday and I for one dont like to be negitively effected by it.
Resident defined, absolutely! I would even go as far as not grandfathering any thing. Many "non hunters" like dogs and wives and grannys would loose their win card until there was proof of quailifications and an understanding of the regulations.
Draw cap, yes, hybrid, yes just not sure were to draw the line as to which one is which. Perhaps anything over P5 goes to lottery. People with points can apply for the lottery but if they are drawn the points are gone, then its back to building up a few points or just putting in the lottery draw.
It would look a lot more like a draw and a lot less like a line.
Just some thoughts, much to be learned and improved on. The status quo has gotta go cause the wheels are gonna fall off.

[Z7Extreme]

Originally Posted by bowhunter9841

I agree with you on this, I still am in disbelief of the outcome of our provincial, and federal elections. I'm hoping to wake up from that nightmare soon!!

Back to 999, I like the system, as stated in other threads. But I do have to agree with you on the fact that there are clearly people applying that should go back and read the rules and regulations. Kinda makes a guy wonder if any of these new hunters actually took hunters education, or if they just lied on their win card application!!

I love the 999 and priority system. Allows you to plan for when you are able to commit to the hunt, and is fair ex. Get in line and wait your turn. I came from BC and the lottery system sucks. You apply for everything hoping to get at least one draw and year after year goes by without drawing any tag. 8-10 years pass and nothing. While your buddy is applying for all the same animals and units and is awarded every 2nd-3rd year. There are some changes we need; proof of residency at least 6 months. And the one good thing about BC is you earn your hunter number by successfully completeing hunter Ed. Not by buying it ( just click that you completed it when purchasing Win card).

My last comment is why I quoted you. Lol