More foreigners taking our jobs

[trooper]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I guess if these workers are needed to fill the shortages then they need to do what they need to do. This does seem political, Canada offering an olive branch from the dreaded oil sands to the US's former military, makes the oil sands look less demonic.

I often hear from friends complaining about foreign workers taking our jobs but I've yet to see any of my friends go apply for jobs at Walmart, Timmy's and the other places where so many foreign workers are being brought in. If they don't want to work they don't have a leg to stand on when whining about their jobs being taken.

Canadians wont apply for those jobs at walmart or Timmies because the management at those companies pay so little compaired to other trades.
I'm currently working up on a SAGD project for CNRL as a safety advisor for a sub contractor. The security staff at this location are all foreigners from the African continent. Why? Because the employment is a heck of alot cheaper and Canadians have minimum standards as far as wages go. A case in point is that Tim hortons franchise in BC who's owner had brought mexican nationals up to Canada to work and housed them in a facility that was over crowded and then charged them a huge amount for rent! No wonder these companies want to employ foreigners! They can take advantage of them! these people for the most part are ignorant of our laws and that gives the employer a distinct advantage.

[igorot]

Originally Posted by trooper

these people for the most part are ignorant of our laws and that gives the employer a distinct advantage.

Agree for the most part, but in reality its poverty. Earning your one month salary in Canada which is equivalent to your annual salary back home with the worst working conditions. I don't condone "sweat shops" , just give whats is due legally and humanely to the person. Most them do this just for their kids and nothing else.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

They do a lot of inappropriate training... Like food safe, basket weaving, women's studies etc. Our high schools should be putting out grads with trades qualifications beyond social studies and volleyball .

There is a program in lberta calle RAP ( registered appreticiship program)
Where high school students can try the various trades during their school year.
They do half a semester in high school, and the other half workig for various companies .
This is a good program , and it works as long as the student applies it.
Many people change occupations several times in their lives, but you have to start somewhere, and this gives them the opurtunity to do just that.
They are not impacting the general woork force, because the company btakes them on in addition to the regular workers, they get to learn the trade they are in and see if they actually want to stick with it, and they can stay in school at the same time and ern a decent wage.
They MUST keep up their grades and if there is any bad reports from the company ( late, absenteeism, etc)they are out .
My son went through it years ago , and several of his friends as well.
I was in three schools last week doing presentationsa along with two red seal chefs, and an eletonics tech who is actually in RAP and a grade twelve student!
I'll be doin two or three other schools next week as well.
Cat

[riden]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

They do a lot of inappropriate training... Like food safe, basket weaving, women's studies etc. Our high schools should be putting out grads with trades qualifications beyond social studies and volleyball .

FWIW

It blows me away what is available in trades at my local high school in the form of shop classes and apprenticeship programs.

The problem I see is, nobody takes them. Kids have the mentality (especially trades oriented kids) of taking the absolute bare minimum needed to graduate, be done of school and go to work.

I'm not sure what the solution is here?

[CanuckShooter]

Well when I graduated all we had was grade 12....I'd like to see kids grad with 4th class steam tickets, class 1 drivers licenses, and such....real life get a job type training and certification. It's just sad that our kids don't generally come prepared to enter the work force with applied skills that would give them first dibbs at good paying jobs. Why do our school systems think you should spend your last couple of years in high school studying English, general math, social studies and the whole host of stuff you spend your first ten years learning?

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by riden

FWIW

It blows me away what is available in trades at my local high school in the form of shop classes and apprenticeship programs.

The problem I see is, nobody takes them. Kids have the mentality (especially trades oriented kids) of taking the absolute bare minimum needed to graduate, be done of school and go to work.

I'm not sure what the solution is here?

I don't know where your at but that sounds like a good set up. I suppose it easier to sign up for basket weaving than a trade course? Perhaps if the put roadblocks in the easy open trails the kids would pick a harder trail that they had some interest in?

[riden]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

I don't know where your at but that sounds like a good set up. I suppose it easier to sign up for basket weaving than a trade course? Perhaps if the put roadblocks in the easy open trails the kids would pick a harder trail that they had some interest in?

I really don't know what you can do to help. I know there is a new initiative this year and the school division has heavy equipment simulators for students and I THINK, the course ends with some time some time on an actual machine. I wonder how many have signed up? I will send an email or two tomorrow and find out. (stupid idea, whoever I ask will say the courses are packed to justify the money spent)

One of the big problems in Alberta is, you can have all your minimum diploma requirements done after 2 1/2 years and you go to work. To take the courses you suggest means they would have to stay the whole 3 years.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Annie

If you want to work in the USA even for a short time you have to prove that you provide a service that cannot be found in the US

Not entirely true. I have an E2 investors treaty visa which allows me to work in the US for 5 years right now

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Well when I graduated all we had was grade 12....I'd like to see kids grad with 4th class steam tickets, class 1 drivers licenses, and such....real life get a job type training and certification. It's just sad that our kids don't generally come prepared to enter the work force with applied skills that would give them first dibbs at good paying jobs. Why do our school systems think you should spend your last couple of years in high school studying English, general math, social studies and the whole host of stuff you spend your first ten years learning?

You know CS, I have had teachers and retired teachers on this forum stating that everything is available for students and that I was whining.

Well CS, I am with you.


Something is not working in training our kids for whatever.


I bring this issue up and I get responses like I am the bogey man from teachers.

Whoops I did not read Riden's post when I wrote it.


Naw: There still has to be a lot of work done.

[Rocky7]

As long as they're from TX, AZ, UT or MT, bring 'em in!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by fishunter327

So why does ammending (lowering) qualifications for foreign workers make any sense?If you need more workers amend the training for canadians.Canada has a high standard of training known around the world.Not all canadians can afford to get training,also there"s not enough training courses offered.Lets train any able bodied,willing canadian kid that wants it .Thats not happening now.Then offer tax breaks to industry for hiring canadian apprentices.

The government didn't lower qualification standards, they started recognizing more of the training and education that foreign workers have. Some highly educated professionals coming to Canada don't have to start their education all over.

A good example of that would be for Doctors. There's a shortage of rural Doctors and in an effort to fill the void and attract foreign Doctors to Canada, the Conservative government passed legislation to recognize the training/education that they received in their country if it met Canadian standards.

IIRC there is also a program to provide an education to Canadians that want to become Doctors. The only stipulation is that at upon graduating they have to practice in a rural area for X number of years.

If we can't get enough of our own citizens to do the job then I don't see what the problem of recruiting, let's say a South African Doctor who has been practicing medicine for 20 years, to fill a position where he is needed.

Other than incentive programs like the one that I mentioned above to train Canadians, I don't believe in providing free educations to anyone. If that's someone's thing then I would expect that they would be either.....A. A Quebecer, or.......B. A socialist (aka NDP).

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

As long as they're from TX, AZ, UT or MT, bring 'em in!

What? No professional noodlers from Missouri, Arkansas, Alabama, etc?

[terry b]

Any one who ****es and moans about this shood get a slap up side the head!!!
I am a contractor in Edmonton and can't get a singel person to show up!!
I have had an add in the paper to hire a guy for 2 months strait and only 1 out of 15 that I hired showed up! Tell me why we have ei right now?
If albertans don't want to work then don't cry when we get immigrants to work for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[igorot]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

A good example of that would be for Doctors. There's a shortage of rural Doctors and in an effort to fill the void and attract foreign Doctors to Canada, the Conservative government passed legislation to recognize the training/education that they received in their country if it met Canadian standards.

Yep they have all this programs for educational integragation. The only problem is the regulating bodies to evaluate qualification is not within the government itself. Qulifications are either evaluated by the union or organization of the said profession so there is conflict of interest.

I will show 3individual right now who have 15 years medical practice working as careaid to survive. The other guy give up and went down south to challenge the nursing state board of California. He is currently working as a RN there. His evaluation from CARNA ( Alberta nurse regulating bodies) was to undergo 2 years fulltime studies.

Sorry typing in iphone

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by terry b

Any one who ****es and moans about this shood get a slap up side the head!!!
I am a contractor in Edmonton and can't get a singel person to show up!!
I have had an add in the paper to hire a guy for 2 months strait and only 1 out of 15 that I hired showed up! Tell me why we have ei right now?
If albertans don't want to work then don't cry when we get immigrants to work for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about a link to your ad? :-).

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

The government didn't lower qualification standards, they started recognizing more of the training and education that foreign workers have. Some highly educated professionals coming to Canada don't have to start their education all over.

A good example of that would be for Doctors. There's a shortage of rural Doctors and in an effort to fill the void and attract foreign Doctors to Canada, the Conservative government passed legislation to recognize the training/education that they received in their country if it met Canadian standards.

IIRC there is also a program to provide an education to Canadians that want to become Doctors. The only stipulation is that at upon graduating they have to practice in a rural area for X number of years.

If we can't get enough of our own citizens to do the job then I don't see what the problem of recruiting, let's say a South African Doctor who has been practicing medicine for 20 years, to fill a position where he is needed.

Other than incentive programs like the one that I mentioned above to train Canadians, I don't believe in providing free educations to anyone. If that's someone's thing then I would expect that they would be either.....A. A Quebecer, or.......B. A socialist (aka NDP).

So I guess you weren't educated in Canada then.....Educations.....LOL

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by terry b

Any one who ****es and moans about this shood get a slap up side the head!!!
I am a contractor in Edmonton and can't get a singel person to show up!!
I have had an add in the paper to hire a guy for 2 months strait and only 1 out of 15 that I hired showed up! Tell me why we have ei right now?
If albertans don't want to work then don't cry when we get immigrants to work for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES!

Our "social safety nets" are a cushy mattress for the lazy and the shiftless.

[dantonsen]

basically boils down to companys being cheap and trying to scrimp on wages.... Look who lobbys government for loose foreign worker rules... Companys.

Any company that pays good and treats their workers well is fully staffed, there is no worker shortage among these companys.

[Scott h]

As long as we have employment insurance , Canada we will have to import people from other area's of the globe who want to work . People will willingly relocate from Jamaica , Africa and California to Fort Mac but not from Vancouver , Calgary or Montreal . Something seems very wrong .

[silver]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Well when I graduated all we had was grade 12....I'd like to see kids grad with 4th class steam tickets, class 1 drivers licenses, and such....real life get a job type training and certification. It's just sad that our kids don't generally come prepared to enter the work force with applied skills that would give them first dibbs at good paying jobs. Why do our school systems think you should spend your last couple of years in high school studying English, general math, social studies and the whole host of stuff you spend your first ten years learning?

When I came out of high school in the 70s, the attitude of most teachers was that an academic education was the way to go. Since the teachers had gone that route, anybody that went into the trades was somehow not up to standards. Somehow I did most of my learning after I got out of school.

[dantonsen]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

YES!

Our "social safety nets" are a cushy mattress for the lazy and the shiftless.

anyone earning full 1500$ ei benefits was making atleast 23$ and hour or more at a job.... I doubt they feel going from 3000$ take home to 1500$ month is 'cushy'

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by terry b

Any one who ****es and moans about this shood get a slap up side the head!!!
I am a contractor in Edmonton and can't get a singel person to show up!!
I have had an add in the paper to hire a guy for 2 months strait and only 1 out of 15 that I hired showed up! Tell me why we have ei right now?
If albertans don't want to work then don't cry when we get immigrants to work for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what happens when you're only offering $7/hour.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by terry b

Any one who ****es and moans about this shood get a slap up side the head!!!
I am a contractor in Edmonton and can't get a singel person to show up!!
I have had an add in the paper to hire a guy for 2 months strait and only 1 out of 15 that I hired showed up! Tell me why we have ei right now?
If albertans don't want to work then don't cry when we get immigrants to work for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you aren't paying market rates?

[kevinb668]

I am a superintendent for a well respected Industrial electrical contractor. We pay better than most non union companies and treat our employees well. My job has less than a %2 absenteeism rate . I need 20 new electricians and apprentices next week and our HR department has them lined up and waiting. ( all Canadian).
Pay fair wages, treat your people right and you will get good workers. END OF STORY!!!

[terry b]

Originally Posted by Calgary Dave

That's what happens when you're only offering $7/hour.

i start guys at 17$-35$ and all i need is for them to have a car to get to the job site no education or experience needed. year round full time work and i cant pay guys more cuz i dont make that much, and you cant pay guys 7 bucks an hour even though that is all they are worth!!! some, some are good just cant get them to show up!

[fortyseven]

As a foreigner who has moved to Canada to live and work, this thread is filled with a lot of people who support that, and I'm glad to see it.
I've had a few people rip into me for being a foreign worker in Canada, and a few people cuss out foreign workers to me, only for me to remind them that I'm a foreign worker.
Great thread, good to see a lot of support. It hasn't been easy making the move here, but I love this country.

[terry b]

Originally Posted by kevinb668

I am a superintendent for a well respected Industrial electrical contractor. We pay better than most non union companies and treat our employees well. My job has less than a %2 absenteeism rate . I need 20 new electricians and apprentices next week and our HR department has them lined up and waiting. ( all Canadian).
Pay fair wages, treat your people right and you will get good workers. END OF STORY!!!

i treat guys better than most in my field but i am not pcl and dont have millions to hand out, i do expect guys to work and show up but that is to much to ask thees days!

[leeaspell]

This thread reminds me of a south park episode where people came back in time and took their jobs



As for the training in high school. I wish I had some some of these courses where you could have learned a trade. I only had shop class for one year, and it was one 45 minute period a week. But I sure am glad I had all those English and folk literature and world issues courses, really prepared me for the real world ya know, discussing what Shakespeare means in a play is a real valuable skill in the oil patch lol.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by terry b

i start guys at 17$-35$ and all i need is for them to have a car to get to the job site no education or experience needed. year round full time work and i cant pay guys more cuz i dont make that much, and you cant pay guys 7 bucks an hour even though that is all they are worth!!! some, some are good just cant get them to show up!

Link to the job ad...or it isn't true. :-). Don't be shy, I know a good worker in edmonton that's interested in a better job.

[thunderheart]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

x2

X3