Treestand ethics?

[happy honker]

I guess a lot of guys put stands up to "claim" a spot or area as well.

On crown land, I found a great trail intersection last fall that had a stand overlooking it. I found that spot because I was tracking, and not because I saw the stand first.

I never hunted out of the guy's stand, nor did I ever meet him, but I admit I did climb up for a look.
I hunted that spot a few times, (ground blind and still hunting) and didn't feel any person had more of a right to it than I did.

It was no honey hole, and I luckily have a few better spots with less pressure, but it looked real good to me, and as I said, on crown land I don't view someone leaving an unoccupied stand up as a permanent reservation of that spot.

[burbotman]

Originally Posted by happy honker

I guess a lot of guys put stands up to "claim" a spot or area as well.

On crown land, I found a great trail intersection last fall that had a stand overlooking it. I found that spot because I was tracking, and not because I saw the stand first.

I never hunted out of the guy's stand, nor did I ever meet him, but I admit I did climb up for a look.
I hunted that spot a few times, (ground blind and still hunting) and didn't feel any person had more of a right to it than I did.

It was no honey hole, and I luckily have a few better spots with less pressure, but it looked real good to me, and as I said, on crown land I don't view someone leaving an unoccupied stand up as a permanent reservation of that spot.

Ownership of public land.... Permanent tree stands on a great funnel or vantage, ice huts on a prominent point left for the season, old trailers left all summer in random camping spots.... Lots of ways that people try to stake their claim to areas that belong to all.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

This is a good question with a few right answers. Sometimes people set up a stand in a great funnel and in just the right tree. It doesn't make that funnel theirs. I'm not going to put a stand up in a tree that is not as good right beside it so i dont use theirs. I would however try to avoid it but I would feel no guilt in sitting in it if it was for a time or two. My logic is that, it is a risk you run by leaving your stand there. Useing it is not the same as stealing it. There are a lot of stands set up by guys who plan on returning and don't. Sometimes people leave the stand there because its too dark to take it out or don't want to spook the game by the noise of removing it. Some times the last thing you want to do at the end of a long day is pull your stand with frozen fingers. Some guys even put out a bunch of stands in an area to shore up all of the best spots.
You have to think that if you leave your stand out someone might use it. We just count on human decency that no one will steal it.

I'd agree,there's no cut and dry,easy answer.I think the OP was referring more to permanent,wood constructed stands as opposed to portables,but either way....?In my home province of NB,and to a lesser extent here in AB for the last 2 years,I've came across dozens if not hundreds of permanent stands,both wood and portables.I'd say you have to assess any stand you find on a case by case basis?On Crown land I've seen everything from a plank nailed to a tree limb to insulated treehouse with sliding windows and propane heat,to a bucket seat out of a Mustang perched 40' up in a big white pine....(which was very comfy BTW,lol).Sometimes they are obviously fairly new,some are rickety death traps with rotten wooden ladders.
Some might have been built for a one time only hunt and been abandoned for years,even though they are in good condition,ie;for a moose hunt?Others have obvious sign of recent use,Halloween candy wrappers,or in NB,usually a freshly replenished apple pile.
If it's obvious that somebody is actively hunting that stand,ie;an apple pile or an active bear bait especially(being a former bear hunter/guide I know how much work goes into tending bait sites)then I definately would not sit in it.
That said however,far too often I've seen guys spend an afternoon throwing up a crude woodie stand on crown Land in a prime location,and think that gives them claim to the spot for life.For instance,when rifle hunting,I often prefer a quick and crude ground blind over being pinned up in a tree if I need to move 10ft to get a clear shot.The only time I'll actually sit in a tree is if offers a clear advantage over being on the ground,which it often does not in my experience.
So that said,there are lots of clearcuts that I've hunted over the years from a good vantage point on the ground,then some clown comes along and builds a 20minute plywood stand next year and thinks he owns the place.Or in another case,a big moose bog that we hunted for years,then another party draws a tag,builds a treestand,and think it's there own personal moose hole for life and try to take it over.Sometimes it can get ugly.
Point being I guess,crown land is no more mine than it is yours,and vice versa.Use common sense,sportsman-like ethics,and common courtesy.For the most part,I don't see anything wrong with using an unattended stand unless it's over an active bait.If by chance the builder or owner(of a portable) happens along,then the proper thing would be to leave.Some people will absolutely LOSE IT if they catch you in "there" stand,but tuff luck I say,that's a chance they take when they put up a stand on crown.....and in all honesty,that's part of the reason I never build permanent stands.I'm not about to do all the scouting,pick the perfect tree(and I'm real picky about that),do all the work,build a stand,maybe cut some lanes(?),hang cameras,scout a particular buck etc.....only to have some weekend warrior shoot "my buck" from "my stand" when I'm not there,or stinking the place up,getting busted in the wrong wind etc,etc..And as mentioned in a previous post,sometimes just the mere presence of a stand draws extra attention to your location from other hunters....might as well hang a sign that says "Hunt Here Dummy".

[Okotokian]

If it's a wooden platform I'd use it, but also give it up to anyone who arrived and said it was theirs. I wouldn't use a "store bought" portable stand I found. I dunno, just wouldn't want to break something. That' more like personal property to me. If you build something on land that isn't yours, then it's not yours.

[MK2750]

I can't understand why a person would hunt another person's stand with the thousands of places to hunt in Alberta.

Either the owner of the stand is a good hunter and has shot or passed on any thing half decent or he is not a good hunter and has ruined the area by getting busted. Big bucks check their areas constantly. If there is lingering scent around an area they choose another route. You should as well.

You are better off finding a fresh spot that isn't being hunted. There are lots of them around.

As far as abandon stands go. A good hunter's stand should look abandon. I have waited all season for conditions to be right to hunt a stand. I set stands and don't go near them until it is time to hunt. Scouting, shed hunting and video cameras just up the chances of spooking deer. If I know it is a good spot I leave it alone until conditions are right.

Isn't half the fun in scouting and finding your own spots that no one else knows about?

[burbotman]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I can't understand why a person would hunt another person's stand with the thousands of places to hunt in Alberta.

Either the owner of the stand is a good hunter and has shot or passed on any thing half decent or he is not a good hunter and has ruined the area by getting busted. Big bucks check their areas constantly. If there is lingering scent around an area they choose another route. You should as well.

You are better off finding a fresh spot that isn't being hunted. There are lots of them around.

As far as abandon stands go. A good hunter's stand should look abandon. I have waited all season for conditions to be right to hunt a stand. I set stands and don't go near them until it is time to hunt. Scouting, shed hunting and video cameras just up the chances of spooking deer. If I know it is a good spot I leave it alone until conditions are right.

Isn't half the fun in scouting and finding your own spots that no one else knows about?

Agreed

[CanuckShooter]

One year we were told about the RCMP being called into the Del Rio are of BC because the boys were having fist fights over who got to use the old tree stands. In another case a group of guys were cutting down the trees that stands were in because they didn't like them.....there are some serious ethical issues around permanent tree stands being left in the woods.

[burbotman]

Two hunters unknown to each other put in a ton of time scouting and "discover" the same great spot.

Hunter b heads out to hunt and after hiking in to this spot finds The permanent stand that Hunter A put up recently. Hunter B does not hunt out of the stand but sets up next to it. Later that day Hunter A comes in to to the spot and they both are un happy.

Both have put the same time into scouting. Does the stand give hunter A the right or does hunter b get first come first serve...........

Best part of this scenario is that when they go home they both post different accounts of the situation slamming each other on AO

[Roughneck Country]

Im pretty sure you arn't supose to leave stands in the woods on crown land, i think it would be concidered "garbage" or littering. I would suspect it would be viewed the same as building a cabin on crown land.

[mad mountain mike]

Originally Posted by burbotman

Two hunters unknown to each other put in a ton of time scouting and "discover" the same great spot.

Hunter b heads out to hunt and after hiking in to this spot finds The permanent stand that Hunter A put up recently. Hunter B does not hunt out of the stand but sets up next to it. Later that day Hunter A comes in to to the spot and they both are un happy.

Both have put the same time into scouting. Does the stand give hunter A the right or does hunter b get first come first serve...........

Best part of this scenario is that when they go home they both post different accounts of the situation slamming each other on AO

You have a great point Bubotman. In one of the areas that I have hunted for years on crown land a couple of permanent tree stands has popped up last fall. I have not crossed paths with the builders yet but when I do I'll bet money that they will feel that I am hunting in "their area".

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I can't understand why a person would hunt another person's stand with the thousands of places to hunt in Alberta.

Either the owner of the stand is a good hunter and has shot or passed on any thing half decent or he is not a good hunter and has ruined the area by getting busted. Big bucks check their areas constantly. If there is lingering scent around an area they choose another route. You should as well.

You are better off finding a fresh spot that isn't being hunted. There are lots of them around.

As far as abandon stands go. A good hunter's stand should look abandon. I have waited all season for conditions to be right to hunt a stand. I set stands and don't go near them until it is time to hunt. Scouting, shed hunting and video cameras just up the chances of spooking deer. If I know it is a good spot I leave it alone until conditions are right.

Isn't half the fun in scouting and finding your own spots that no one else knows about?

Have to agree MK...

It's not really about ethics, it is about respect in my mind... Was always taught to respect others property and space in all aspects of life...

Makes no difference what device you come across while out and about, if it's not yours and you do not have permission to access or use it, leave well enough alone..

Is it really that tough to actually show respect in todays world ?

[bessiedog]

Respect goes both ways though.

How respectful is it to pretty much defacto 'claim' a public area for you self?

Thats what these structures do.

I leave these stands alone MAINLY because I see it as a sign for me to explore more and discover new and possibly better area. AND im fit and capable with time and ability to search out more new territory.
BUT if I had my mobility impaired, or I was an old timer, OR I was introducing my kids to hunting.... I'd quite honestly help myself to that treestand.

Permanent improvement to public land = public improvement to me in this case. Who's really being inconsiderate here? Isn;t it a tad selfish to build something like that an assume its your god given right to do what you want with public property????

I see that as just as wrong in most respects. AND i personally don;t have much of a problem with people cutting down permamnent stands....


I am still mulling it over a bit though...

[goatguide]

i dont see any harm in using it....i would personally get out if the person that built it happened to stop by

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

If it's a wooden platform I'd use it, but also give it up to anyone who arrived and said it was theirs. I wouldn't use a "store bought" portable stand I found. I dunno, just wouldn't want to break something. That' more like personal property to me. If you build something on land that isn't yours, then it's not yours.

Yup.I don`t stand hunt,I like to move but there are a few here I`v come across on crown land and I figure unless the Queen is sitting in it you are good to use it.

[MK2750]

Over the years there was one particular area I found that held a lot of deer. It is a large field in the middle of crown/oil lease country. It was reclaimed in something tasty and on any Sept or Oct evening there would be 10-20 deer feeding.

In November I soon learned that many were aware of this as the field was full of vehicle tracks and foot prints. There was a group of ravens that called the area home as there were several gut piles in different areas on pretty much any given day.

I pass this spot often and always there was sign of lots of traffic, however there was still lots of deer sign as well. No doubt the majority of the deer tracks were made at night.

I wasn't ready to give up even though the obvious stand spots were heavily hunted.

Flash forward to last year. My son had tagged out so I felt free to try a few new spots. He had refused to go there with me because of all the hunting pressure and I felt more comfortable taking him to proven private spots.

On Google earth I discovered a cut line that runs parallel to the field and the road that leads to it, about 500 yards in the bush. It is not connected to the field and runs for several miles before crossing another line. It would take a good 4x4 or quad to reach it even though it is a short walk.

I was also able to determine from the elevation on Google earth that there was a step hill overlooking a funnel of spruce that leads into a large swamp.

At day light I was on top of the hill looking down the cut line to where the spruce began. I settled in and gave a series of grunts while rustling brush and rubbing a stick on some trees.

This guy came out on the line and headed right for me with his ears back and hair up like a junk yard dog. He had obviously experience no hunting pressure even though there was lots of human activity only 5 or 600 yards away.

The last thing he expected to see when he reached the top of the hill was a hunter. In fact I don't think it even crossed his mind.

There is lots of good spots in an area that are just overlooked by others. The deer are always somewhere.

I shot him at under 10 yards. I had never even set foot in this piece of bush before but I got a feeling it won't be the last time.

[IMG][/IMG]

[riden]

I think you build a stand on public land ( over an active bear bait is a little different), it is everybody's.

I get up early to get to my favourite moose spot. They are a couple of other guys who like to use it too, and I get there before them, every single time. No way does a stand make it more theirs than mine. I would have no qualms about sitting in it.

[Vingiu]

I posted my thoughts here already, but after some thought I'm not too sure anymore...

First thought is this: Crown land is public land, first and foremost. Any hunter that leaves their stand up is breaking the law, and they shouldn't be "claiming" any spot as their own. There shouldn't be any stands left up in the first place.

That being said... if I came across one: I wouldn't use it, period. It's an illegally installed piece of equipment, and using it would violate personal principles (kind of like driving a stolen car, if you want to push the example). So for me, 100% no. I wouldn't touch it. I'd climb up the next tree and plant my own stand if the spot was that great.

[sdkidaho]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

I would say it would be OK to climb up and take a look around, just be extremely cautious that it's safe.

There is a faction of outdoorsmen that don't think the permanent stands should be left in place and advocate tearing them down if they find them...:-(

We have to take down any structures once the season is over. Anything you put up and hauled in, has to be taken down and hauled out. This is in relation to bear bait sites though... a deer stand would have to be hauled out as well, but I'm not sure how a guy could "claim" public ground with a deer stand. It's like duck hunting - first come first serve to the honey hole. You want it? Get up before me and beat me there. Bear baiting is different as you have to have a bait license and register your spot with the G&F so to speak.

[SkytopBrewster]

Originally Posted by sdkidaho

We have to take down any structures once the season is over. Anything you put up and hauled in, has to be taken down and hauled out. This is in relation to bear bait sites though... a deer stand would have to be hauled out as well, but I'm not sure how a guy could "claim" public ground with a deer stand. It's like duck hunting - first come first serve to the honey hole. You want it? Get up before me and beat me there. Bear baiting is different as you have to have a bait license and register your spot with the G&F so to speak.

Not to sidetrack the thread but up here you don't.

Bear Seasons


Black Bear Baiting
Baiting of black bears is permitted in the following WMUs: 322, 330-338, 348, 358-360, 500-507, 509, 510, 512-520, 522, 523, 529-536, 539-544, and portions of WMUs 320, 324, 357, 521, 526 and 528 (check with local Fish and Wildlife Division offices for more information). However, the following restrictions also apply:
1.
Baiting is prohibited within 1.6 km (1 mi.) of occupied dwellings. Owners and occupants of dwellings are exempt from this restriction if they have permission to bait from the owners or occupants of all other dwellings within 1.6 km (1 mi.) of the bait. Other persons may also bait within 1.6 km (1 mi.) of an occupied dwelling if the bait has been authorized in writing by the owners or occupants of that dwelling and all other dwellings within 1.6 km (1 mi.) of the bait.



2.
Baiting is prohibited within 1.6 km (1 mi.) of provincial parks that are not designated as Wildland Provincial Parks, provincial and forest recreation areas and some industrial sites.



3.
Each bait site must have a readily observable sign legibly showing the owner's name, WIN, Big Game Outfitter-guide permit number, or Big Game Guide Designation Number.



4.
Each bait must be posted with surrounding signs to warn other people of its presence.



5.
Baiting is restricted to the open season and the preceding two weeks in each specific WMU.


Contact a Fish and Wildlife Division office for legal land descriptions or more information.

Hunters are reminded that Alberta's Environmental Protection and Enhancement Act, Livestock Diseases Act and the Public Health Act apply to baiting situations. Any livestock dying other than through proper slaughter for human consumption must be disposed of in prescribed ways and may not be used for baiting bears. Containers or wrappings made of paper, cardboard, plastic or other materials should not be left at bait sites. For the safety of others, baits should not be placed near active work sites (e.g., tree planting locations) and all bait sites must be cleaned immediately after the bear season.

Supplemental Black Bear Licences
Supplemental Black Bear Licences are available in the following WMUs: 224, 250, 258, 260, 320-360, 429, 445, 500-544 and 841.

It is unlawful to:
•allow the skin of any bear to be wasted, destroyed, spoiled, or abandoned. See exception for salvaging skin. Click here for Access for Control of Livestock Predation.
•hunt a black bear under the age of one year or a female black bear accompanied by a cub under the age of one year.

[H380]

I'm afraid I'm old school in the fact that if it isn't yours you don't touch or take or use another persons property without permission . Building a permanent stand on Crown land doesn't mean you own that spot , however it does mean you intend on using it . I f you want to hunt the same area , build your own stand or pack one in . Best take into consideration tho how you would like some one else setting up shop on your doorstep . As has been said , It's a big province try and get along . Respect others and hopefully they will return the favor .

[burbotman]

Originally Posted by H380

I'm afraid I'm old school in the fact that if it isn't yours you don't touch or take or use another persons property without permission . Building a permanent stand on Crown land doesn't mean you own that spot , however it does mean you intend on using it . I f you want to hunt the same area , build your own stand or pack one in . Best take into consideration tho how you would like some one else setting up shop on your doorstep . As has been said , It's a big province try and get along . Respect others and hopefully they will return the favor .

Without a doubt respect is key

Can someone really make public land their door step? That is my issue with permanent stands and people who think that it makes the areas theirs.

[catnthehat]

I don't use them when I come upon them while hunting , for several reasons.
Cat

[ditch donkey]

Myself, if I stumbled onto a stand, I have a variety of takes on the subject.

I would never sit in someone's store bought stand.

If I came across a permanent stand, and I was sure no other hunters were in the area, I might use it, if I liked the spot.

If I found a stand, built from a previous season, that hadn't been used this season, (no tramped grass leading to the stand, or other signs of use) I wouldn't think twice about using it.

I've never built a stand on crown land, but if I did, and found someone sitting it, I'd wave, and carry on my way. Probly be a little dissapointed, but that's crown land, and you gotta roll with the punches. And who knows, the animal of a lifetime could find me, as I carry on, trying to make a new plan.

[Hotwheels81]

Originally Posted by burbotman

Two hunters unknown to each other put in a ton of time scouting and "discover" the same great spot.

Hunter b heads out to hunt and after hiking in to this spot finds The permanent stand that Hunter A put up recently. Hunter B does not hunt out of the stand but sets up next to it. Later that day Hunter A comes in to to the spot and they both are un happy.

Both have put the same time into scouting. Does the stand give hunter A the right or does hunter b get first come first serve...........

Best part of this scenario is that when they go home they both post different accounts of the situation slamming each other on AO

What if hunter B doesn't see hunter A's stand, rather hes just stopped at the bush line of a nice clearing and shoots a nice buck out from under hunter A?

I'm afraid with hunting the bullet that kills the animal is the one that matters no matter how rude or disrespectful it appears at the the time... I have a few spots I drive to first light during the season and go for a walk, if I see fresh tire tracks on the frost then I turn around and find another spot, if someone wants to put a stand up in an area that's there business but I won't stop patrolling the area if I know it's a good one... But I don't like ladders so there permanent stands are safe.

[I.R.Chevy]

I believe in the respect system. However crown land is in fact owned by the crown, not any one person. If you leave "your" tree stand in the bush expect others to use it. I think its an outdoor community thing. Don't vandalize or steal but I don't see a problem using a tree stand that is currently not in use. (Bait sites are different, I would never use someone else's bait site.)

I expect others to use my tree stands as well as me using any that I happen across. If you don't want someone using it then take it down. If its not your property then you have no claim to it. The early bird gets the worm.

[heretohunt]

Not that we need more regulation but if we were required to leave our name, and phone number on any stand on public land then this may solve the problem. If they also included the date the stand was set up then a lot of questions would be easily answered. Anything not meeting these requirements would be considered for public use.

[quadrunner]

How many of you ethical hunters would put up a portable tree stand 30 yrds from another portable stand that you know is being used every bow season and has been there for say 10 yrs or so? On public land!
Personally if i see a tree stand stand set up somewhere, i would not even consider putting a stand up there. But i am old school i guess

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by mad mountain mike

You have a great point Bubotman. In one of the areas that I have hunted for years on crown land a couple of permanent tree stands has popped up last fall. I have not crossed paths with the builders yet but when I do I'll bet money that they will feel that I am hunting in "their area".

I came into a spot I use regularly ( fir the last 30 years!)
And as I entered the small group of spruces I hide in I heard a voice
" Hey!! We 're hunting here!)
Another hunter and his friend step out and say " didn't 't you see my truck?"
"Yeah I did, along with two others , I naturally thought everyone walked up the trail! That's okay, i''ll see ya later"
I was going to suggest that I walk up then try to push something out into the meadow from the surrounding bush( this place is huge!)
But figured with his attitude , screw 'em there are lots of places I can go.
That spot BTW is about 200 yards from a popular staging area for Quads and sleds!
An hour later I had s nice old mature whitetail down .
Cat

[grinr]

Originally Posted by Bigmountainrider

On public land I would use it and yeild use to the builder if he/she shows up. On private land this would not be a question, for I would know who the builder is, whos using the property and if I was ok to use the stand.

This^^
I've found dozens upon dozens if not hundreds of stands on Crown land over the years.Sometimes portables,climbers,ladders,permanent wooden stands in various states of repair,from rock solid tree condos to rickety death traps,a bucket seat from a Mustang 30 ft up a white pine....you name it.
Some I've used,some I didn't,some I wouldn't trust to support a squirrel,some that obviously been abandoned for years.
I've got no problem with using a found stand,just like I know others have used mine.About the only thing I wouldn't do is use somebody's stand over an active bear bait,being as after putting in a few seasons guiding bear hunters myself,I know how much time,cost and effort goes into it.
When you hang a stand on public land,permanent or otherwise,somebody else finding and using it is one of the chances you take,as long as they don't steal it,all good IMO.
I would certainly leave if the rightful owner came along,or not use it at all if I knew he objected.
At the end of the day,after decades of hunting and likely sitting in a few dozen dozen found stands over the years,I can only recall ever shooting exactly ONE buck from same that I rattled in and shot literally straight down thru the shoulder blades.
Unless I'm bowhunting,I generally prefer stillhunting and building 2 minute ground blinds for rattling etc.,and usually hunt too many places in any given season to invest too much time hanging stands all over Hell's half acre......I like variety I guess?

[58thecat]

Simple, not yours stay out of it. If you see another stand and you know a hunter puts his/her butt in it do not place yours anywhere near it. Lots of woods out there so share it nicely.