Waterfowl Ammo Help for a newbie

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Blindside and hevishot seem to hit harder then the cheap winchesters. Have you guys noticed the same?

[robfraser]

Originally Posted by robfraser

I was patterning a shotgun with 23/4 inch 2 shot on an old piece of sheet metal.
Score only dented the metal.
Kent went right through.

I should have mentioned that I phoned score.
Talked to a really nice gentleman and told him of my experience.
He thought that was unusual in his experience.
He said to return the shells to wholesale for a full refund which I did.
Score 12 guage slugs are very accurate in my shotgun.

[bobalong]

I see quite a few guys using #2 for geese which by their testament works very well. I have been using BB for years not because they are necessarily better (but I do think they hit a bit harder) as "dead is dead" regardless of shot size. My theory has always been that the BB hit a bit harder or you miss, which I like better than hitting them with a lot of smaller pellets.

What I have noticed using BB is that there is much less steel in the meat. I believe that is partly due to less pellets but also more complete pass throughs because of better penetration. Everyone likes the head/neck shots but that doesn't always happen. If you have hunted for years or watched videos on goose hunting you have seen many many birds brought down with a broken wing. People are not shooting at the wings but when hit with the larger shot size with higher energy will break bone easier.

I always thought that the pellet count was pretty close for #2 and BB but in fact there is a fairly big difference. #2 is 125 pellets per oz. and BB is 72 pellets per oz. From what I have read over the past few years (surveys) almost 40% of goose hunters use BB, with #1,#2 and BBB all coming in at about 16-17%. I doubt if the survey on favorite shot size was very "scientific" just added it more for interest. The fact is all sizes listed will kill geese but after trying different sizes BB has worked the best for me.

[drake]

To shoot more birds you have to shoot more birds...smash all the Orange disks you want but nothing compares to field experience at moving ducks and geese. I’ve seen some brutal shooting displays by some bragadocious trap and skeet shooters over the years. The best wing shooters I have ever seen never shot a orange disk in their life.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by drake

To shoot more birds you have to shoot more birds...smash all the Orange disks you want but nothing compares to field experience at moving ducks and geese. I’ve seen some brutal shooting displays by some bragadocious trap and skeet shooters over the years. The best wing shooters I have ever seen never shot a orange disk in their life.

There is nothing like field shooting for sure but for new hunters practice is essential to develop good shooting position, follow through etc. For many that may only get out on a few shoots a year, the orange disks are the next best thing to improve and stay proficient year round, and shooting them is still a lot better than not shooting at all.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by nube

Great price for that stuff. I don't know what is a good deal on 3 inch winchester any more in the store but I bet $150 is a normal price for it these days is it not? I wouldn't mind ordering for guys but I bet it is illegal for me to do so without proper paperwork so I don't think I want to start doing that right now.

I get most of my shotgun ammo from Marty.
https://www.canadianwaterfowlersproshop.com/
He supplies in bulk, usually a pretty good deal.
He supplies a lot of the outfitters but if you order from him you want to get your order in a few months ahead of time.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by drake

To shoot more birds you have to shoot more birds...smash all the Orange disks you want but nothing compares to field experience at moving ducks and geese. I’ve seen some brutal shooting displays by some bragadocious trap and skeet shooters over the years. The best wing shooters I have ever seen never shot a orange disk in their life.

If you can only get out hunting once per week, for a couple of months per year, you aren't going to do enough shooting to develop your shooting to a high level with just hunting. I have seen some trap shooters that were not great wing shots, but I have never seen an A level or higher skeet shooter, or a master class sporting clays shooter, that was not an excellent shot on birds. I actually find shooting waterfowl and upland birds to be much easier than many sporting clays targets, the target speeds are often higher, and the clay targets are about 1/3 the size of the head/neck of a goose let alone the body of a goose. The people that can't hit clays, but claim to be excellent shots on birds, are usually the same people that shoot poorly at paper targets, but claim to be good shots on big game.

[drake]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you can only get out hunting once per week, for a couple of months per year, you aren't going to do enough shooting to develop your shooting to a high level with just hunting. I have seen some trap shooters that were not great wing shots, but I have never seen an A level or higher skeet shooter, or a master class sporting clays shooter, that was not an excellent shot on birds. I actually find shooting waterfowl and upland birds to be much easier than many sporting clays targets, the target speeds are often higher, and the clay targets are about 1/3 the size of the head/neck of a goose let alone the body of a goose. The people that can't hit clays, but claim to be excellent shots on birds, are usually the same people that shoot poorly at paper targets, but claim to be good shots on big game.

I dunno about a duck or goose being easier to hit than a target....pretty easy to hit an orange disk when its not mixed up with 100 other targets, no adrenalin, firm footing, nice weather, T-shirt, gun shouldered.

I guess it’s better than nothing.

Been lucky to hunt a lot of birds in my life...only killed about 30 orange disks to date.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by drake

I dunno about a duck or goose being easier to hit than a target....pretty easy to hit an orange disk when its not mixed up with 100 other targets, no adrenalin, firm footing, nice weather, T-shirt, gun shouldered.

I guess it’s better than nothing.

Been lucky to hunt a lot of birds in my life...only killed about 30 orange disks to date.

Your ignorance concerning clay shooting makes it obvious that you have never shot registered skeet or sporting clays. We shoot year round, so good luck with your t-shirt in January, we shoot in rain, even though the targets aren't easy to see , and many of us don't shoot with a pre mounted gun for sporting clays. As well, unlike waterfowl where you can watch the birds approach for hundreds of yards and have plenty of time to prepare, and have open sky to shoot the birds in, with sporting Clays, you often hear the launcher, but you can't see the target until it suddenly appears in the small shooting window, where you have to find the target, and shoot it fast, before it hits the ground or is out of site into the trees. As well, some targets are travelling 60mph or faster, and all are much , much smaller than geese. The minis are slightly larger than half the size of a regular target, and are even harder to see, and to shoot.
The people that have only shot hand thrown targets, or targets out of a portable thrower, or even standard trap, have no clue how challenging some clays shooting can be. But that doesn't stop them from telling everyone how easy it is to shoot clays.

[nube]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I see quite a few guys using #2 for geese which by their testament works very well. I have been using BB for years not because they are necessarily better (but I do think they hit a bit harder) as "dead is dead" regardless of shot size. My theory has always been that the BB hit a bit harder or you miss, which I like better than hitting them with a lot of smaller pellets.

What I have noticed using BB is that there is much less steel in the meat. I believe that is partly due to less pellets but also more complete pass throughs because of better penetration. Everyone likes the head/neck shots but that doesn't always happen. If you have hunted for years or watched videos on goose hunting you have seen many many birds brought down with a broken wing. People are not shooting at the wings but when hit with the larger shot size with higher energy will break bone easier.

I always thought that the pellet count was pretty close for #2 and BB but in fact there is a fairly big difference. #2 is 125 pellets per oz. and BB is 72 pellets per oz. From what I have read over the past few years (surveys) almost 40% of goose hunters use BB, with #1,#2 and BBB all coming in at about 16-17%. I doubt if the survey on favorite shot size was very "scientific" just added it more for interest. The fact is all sizes listed will kill geese but after trying different sizes BB has worked the best for me.

Ive learned its all in the pattern more so than a bigger projectile. To kill geese well I think u need tight patern with lots of pellets to break wings , hit neck and head. If they are in tight and thump them in the chest they will die no matter what you put in them but at longer ranges u hit them with less pellets with BB and those big geese really can fly away with a pile of holes in them if they are not in the right spot. I'm going straight with #2 this year to see how it goes.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by nube

Ive learned its all in the pattern more so than a bigger projectile. To kill geese well I think u need tight patern with lots of pellets to break wings , hit neck and head. If they are in tight and thump them in the chest they will die no matter what you put in them but at longer ranges u hit them with less pellets with BB and those big geese really can fly away with a pile of holes in them if they are not in the right spot. I'm going straight with #2 this year to see how it goes.

With the amount of birds you get it will be interesting to see how it goes. I have been going to try the 2's but always seem to go back to what I know works well, but am always wiling to switch to something better. Still got a 2-3 cases of BB to go through for this year though.

[BuckCuller]

#2’s and BB’s all work good my favourite for geese was Black Cloud #2 snow goose but prices and availability turned me away. They hit hard with an Kicks extended black cloud full choke but your aim better be on. Shoot’em in the face.
Took lots of ducks heads clear off with them too.
Now it’s more economical with the Winchester high velocity.

[drake]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

#2’s and BB’s all work good my favourite for geese was Black Cloud #2 snow goose but prices and availability turned me away. They hit hard with an Kicks extended black cloud full choke but your aim better be on. Shoot’em in the face.
Took lots of ducks heads clear off with them too.
Now it’s more economical with the Winchester high velocity.

I don’t like blackcloud for that reason...the wound channels are brutal and any goose or duck not hit in the head is no good for eating

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by drake

I don’t like blackcloud for that reason...the wound channels are brutal and any goose or duck not hit in the head is no good for eating

Ha ha yeh I shot it more for geese and go for a head shot, good for cripples too.
I had one not separate the shot from the wad and went right through a duck between the neck and the wings like a slug.
Heavy metals not much better, I shot a cripple duck and never thought about being 15 yards went for a head shot and the duck disappeared in a poof of feathers.
But like I say too expensive anyway.

[Benelli1]

Is Blindside as destructive to the meat as Black Cloud?

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by Benelli1

Is Blindside as destructive to the meat as Black Cloud?

It penetrates well and patterns better than I thought it would.
As for the damage it doesn’t seem to damage as bad as the black cloud.
With the irregular shaped shot I don’t know how good it will be on a shotgun barrel after extensive use but the wad is probably designed for it.
But it is also pretty expensive.

[Pixel Shooter]

Hell i use the cheapest loads i can buy and when i find a great buy. Buy in bulk. These birds have a brain the size of a pea. Be smarter then the bird i say. If i could only shoot one shot size for all migratory it would be #1’s. Hard to find at times.

[32-40win]

As far as kinetic energy goes, #2 is actually a hair better than BB further out, as it holds its speed a hair better than BB. There are lots of ballistics studies on shot around that confirm that. #3 is very close to #2. We are talking hairs though. I like using #3 in my 20ga, get a few more pellets, and it works for me. In my 12's I use #3 for the most part thru Sept and BB in Oct when the shooting turns mostly to geese. Had lots of times when they were mixed in the blind too. I've shot some snows at the same ranges with either, seems to be more a matter of pointing the gun in the right general direction than anything else. I did like the 40yd patterns better with #2 & 3 as well.

[Justfishin73]

I like to use a Patternmaster choke with the cheap Super-Xs. Nice, tight and long. I would rather spend money on a good choke allowing me to maximize cheap ammo, than pay $40/box of ammo. This choke cuts right down on the cripples too.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Pixel Shooter

Hell i use the cheapest loads i can buy and when i find a great buy. Buy in bulk. These birds have a brain the size of a pea. Be smarter then the bird i say. If i could only shoot one shot size for all migratory it would be #1’s. Hard to find at times.

^^^ This...get your decoy spread set up properly and your blind done well and it won't make much difference the type of ammo, if you can hit the birds they'll be at a range that they will hit the ground.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by hal53

^^^ This...get your decoy spread set up properly and your blind done well and it won't make much difference the type of ammo, if you can hit the birds they'll be at a range that they will hit the ground.

Set up properly, let them get close enough, and shoot well, and neither ammunition or choke will be an issue.

[ward]

Originally Posted by 32-40win

As far as kinetic energy goes, #2 is actually a hair better than BB further out, as it holds its speed a hair better than BB. There are lots of ballistics studies on shot around that confirm that. #3 is very close to #2. We are talking hairs though. I like using #3 in my 20ga, get a few more pellets, and it works for me. In my 12's I use #3 for the most part thru Sept and BB in Oct when the shooting turns mostly to geese. Had lots of times when they were mixed in the blind too. I've shot some snows at the same ranges with either, seems to be more a matter of pointing the gun in the right general direction than anything else. I did like the 40yd patterns better with #2 & 3 as well.

Launched at the same velocity, #2 steel never comes close to BB steel.

[ward]

https://www.hunter-ed.com/mob/mo_spe...-non-toxic.pdf

This chart gives good information for selecting steel shot for what ever birds you are hunting.

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by hal53

..or do as a couple other guys have suggested and center the pattern on their head/neck area then nobody gets shot up breast meat

Seriously ,how many people here can center the pattern on the head/neck area on a flying goose at say 40-50 yds?
I am not new to clay shooting and shooting in general but still, who does really aim at the head of the bird at those ranges in the reality ?
S12

[catnthehat]

A person is supposed to keep hard focus on the exact spot they want to Center the pattern on - in clay shooting it's the forward edge of the target
In waterfowl it's the end of the bill of the bird .
I don't shoot geese and ducks at 40 yards but when I do shoot waterfowl I keep my hard focus on the bill of the bird .
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by shooter12

Seriously ,how many people here can center the pattern on the head/neck area on a flying goose at say 40-50 yds?
I am not new to clay shooting and shooting in general but still, who does really aim at the head of the bird at those ranges in the reality ?
S12

Given that a clay target is about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the head/neck area of a goose, if you can hit a clay at 40-50 yards, you can hit the head/neck area of a goose at 40-50 yards. But the sad truth is, many people can't even hit an entire goose at 40-50 yards, because they don't shoot enough. But other people can, and do hit the head/neck area of geese consistently, and with a proper set up, they only have to shoot 20-30 yards.

A person is supposed to keep hard focus on the exact spot they want to Center the pattern on - in clay shooting it's the forward edge of the target
In waterfowl it's the end of the bill of the bird .
I don't shoot geese and ducks at 40 yards but when I do shoot waterfowl I keep my hard focus on the bill of the bird .
Cat

Exactly, you aim for a small part of the bird, not at the whole bird. Shooting at the whole bird, is like shooting at an entire big game animal.

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Given that a clay target is about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the head/neck area of a goose, if you can hit a clay at 40-50 yards, you can hit the head/neck area of a goose at 40-50 yards.

Personally I can not .
That's why I am going /aiming for a body.
Works for me pretty good though, especially at those distances
S12

[threeforthree]

As far as kinetic energy goes, #2 is actually a hair better than BB further out.


Not even close even out to 60 yards compared to 40 yards for 2 shot..Look at chart


http://www.shotgunpatternpro.com/images/ammunition7.jpg

[cheese&quackers]

This has been a great help! Thank you to everyone for their insight thus far. I have a lot of different information to go over and think about in the next couple weeks.

Have gone out to shoot clays a couple times this summer and I feel like I am getting better. Practice makes perfect.

Thanks again for all your comments, they are greatly appreciated! I am sure once the season starts I will have a few more questions.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by hal53

..or do as a couple other guys have suggested and center the pattern on their head/neck area then nobody gets shot up breast meat

Okay. You can try head shootin all morning. I'll take my green limit home and crawl back into bed with my wife. Or eat bacon.