Go Back   Alberta Outdoors Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 08-10-2024, 09:58 AM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
Yes there is. Tell Zelenskyy that he is not getting any more money. That’s it!
Tell Putin that NATO is not coming to Ukraine. That if he wants his oligarchs to be able to travel again and get back their yachts and houses around the world- they need to get out of Ukraine and stop the war. If not - it’s time to start deporting their wives and kids back to Russia from USA, FRANCE, SPAIN and other countries.
In a perfect world Russia leaves all of Ukraine including Crimea and agree to pay war reparations.

Ukraine shouldn’t have to appease Russia.

However to allow Putin to save face if Ukraine agrees to not join NATO would that help anything else?

But let’s face it. This wasn’t about NATO.

NATO was already closer to Moscow than Ukraine. Putin has drive. Sweden and Finland into NATO and make the border with NATO much larger.

Putin wanted a legacy of building the Russian Federation by capturing ex Soviet states. He wanted the resources. Ukraine was the technical and production hub of the former Soviet Union. He wants control.

Can Putin somehow save face and pull out of Ukraine? Is there any way Ukraine should give up land Russia has captured via illegal take over? It’s hard to see that happening.

Right now Ukraine is being used as a proxy for a fight against Russia but that fight was started by Russia.

If the west pulled Ukraine funding, Russia will win… they won’t back down or stop the fight to completely take over Ukraine. A stronger Russia on the political stage and world influence stage isn’t a good thing. Their impact on Syria hasn’t been good. Their impact in Africa has been destabilizing. Their support of repressive regimes like Venezuela hasn’t helped people.

If the west truly wants to stop the war, it will take Ukraine winning for a period of time and Russia pulling back and licking its wounds. It will take the war coming to the Russia. population so they put pressure on Putin to stop it. The propaganda machine is one of the strongest in the world in Russia. The news reports on what Putin tells them to. Average Russians are programmed to only listen to Russian news. People that challenge that go to jail or the front line or disappear.

Ukraine needs all the technology and weaponry and help without boots on the ground. It’s no different than the help Russia is getting from China, Iran and North Korea. Some of those countries also have authorized boots on the ground.

An airfield needs to be build in Poland that extends over into Ukraine. Planes can be stored in Poland and volunteers pull the planes over the border into Ukraine as needed. Russia already uses Belarus like this. Poland needs Patriots coordinated with Ukraine along the border with Ukraine to shoot down any Russian assets that appear to be approaching the border. Russia has crossed the border so simply tell them they can’t be trusted and now this is the new reality. Russia is buying long range drones from other countries to attack military and Non military targets inside Ukraine. Absolutely no reason why other countries can’t give long range missiles and drones to Ukraine to attack military infrastructure in Russia. It’s a freaking war, caused by Russia and Ukraine needs all the tools to fight back. The west can’t hamstring them.

At the same time the Russian insurgents in Moldova need to be targeted and eliminated instead of letting this ticking time bomb sit there.

Ukraine should also take the war to the oceans and use their drone technology to sink all Russian military assets they can find.

They should continue to aid in attacks on Wagner assets in Africa whom are supporting military dictatorships.


The more pain Russia feels the better chance Russia will capitulate it make up some excuse.

Putin’s 2 week special military operation has not gone well.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-10-2024, 09:59 AM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32-40win View Post
I'm inclined to think there may be a bit of consternation in the Kremlin tonite, apparently the Ukes are making some serious miles there;
Classic.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-10-2024, 10:10 AM
ruffy71 ruffy71 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 400
Default

Yes in a perfect world, Russia would leave Ukraine, and Putin would be hung in the streets of Moscow like Mussolini.

I'm trying to envision a scenario where Ukraine regains all of Crimea, and Mariupol, but carves off a slice of Eastern Ukraine, maybe Luhansk, for Russia to keep. It sickens me, but I could live with that. Barely.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-10-2024, 10:16 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,439
Default

Sundancefisher. What an excellent detailed post(#31) on the Russian/Ukraine war. You are a very wise person putting the war into perspective. Well done! We need more posts like yours rather than All the BS some like to post before they put their brains in gear.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-10-2024, 11:11 AM
sharrozap sharrozap is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 374
Default

Post #31 by Sundance is the best so far. Excellent describing what is going on in Russia.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-10-2024, 11:48 AM
KGB's Avatar
KGB KGB is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
In a perfect world Russia leaves all of Ukraine including Crimea and agree to pay war reparations.

Ukraine shouldn’t have to appease Russia.

However to allow Putin to save face if Ukraine agrees to not join NATO would that help anything else?

But let’s face it. This wasn’t about NATO.

NATO was already closer to Moscow than Ukraine. Putin has drive. Sweden and Finland into NATO and make the border with NATO much larger.

Putin wanted a legacy of building the Russian Federation by capturing ex Soviet states. He wanted the resources. Ukraine was the technical and production hub of the former Soviet Union. He wants control.

Can Putin somehow save face and pull out of Ukraine? Is there any way Ukraine should give up land Russia has captured via illegal take over? It’s hard to see that happening.

Right now Ukraine is being used as a proxy for a fight against Russia but that fight was started by Russia.

If the west pulled Ukraine funding, Russia will win… they won’t back down or stop the fight to completely take over Ukraine. A stronger Russia on the political stage and world influence stage isn’t a good thing. Their impact on Syria hasn’t been good. Their impact in Africa has been destabilizing. Their support of repressive regimes like Venezuela hasn’t helped people.

If the west truly wants to stop the war, it will take Ukraine winning for a period of time and Russia pulling back and licking its wounds. It will take the war coming to the Russia. population so they put pressure on Putin to stop it. The propaganda machine is one of the strongest in the world in Russia. The news reports on what Putin tells them to. Average Russians are programmed to only listen to Russian news. People that challenge that go to jail or the front line or disappear.

Ukraine needs all the technology and weaponry and help without boots on the ground. It’s no different than the help Russia is getting from China, Iran and North Korea. Some of those countries also have authorized boots on the ground.

An airfield needs to be build in Poland that extends over into Ukraine. Planes can be stored in Poland and volunteers pull the planes over the border into Ukraine as needed. Russia already uses Belarus like this. Poland needs Patriots coordinated with Ukraine along the border with Ukraine to shoot down any Russian assets that appear to be approaching the border. Russia has crossed the border so simply tell them they can’t be trusted and now this is the new reality. Russia is buying long range drones from other countries to attack military and Non military targets inside Ukraine. Absolutely no reason why other countries can’t give long range missiles and drones to Ukraine to attack military infrastructure in Russia. It’s a freaking war, caused by Russia and Ukraine needs all the tools to fight back. The west can’t hamstring them.

At the same time the Russian insurgents in Moldova need to be targeted and eliminated instead of letting this ticking time bomb sit there.

Ukraine should also take the war to the oceans and use their drone technology to sink all Russian military assets they can find.

They should continue to aid in attacks on Wagner assets in Africa whom are supporting military dictatorships.


The more pain Russia feels the better chance Russia will capitulate it make up some excuse.

Putin’s 2 week special military operation has not gone well.
Great post indeed! That’s how you escalate the situation and start WW3.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-10-2024, 12:09 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
Great post indeed! That’s how you escalate the situation and start WW3.
False but okay.

Putin keeps threatening WWIII and nuclear weapons and the weak cower and fail to do what needs to do.

Third party countries are supplying Russia with weapons to attack Ukraine and their civilian population and their military. They bomb hospitals and energy infrastructure. The level apartment building and whole towns and cities.

So your solution is for Ukraine to capitulate and give up? It is based upon your withdrawal of funding. Not sure you realize it but that is purely an indirect passive statement TO LOSE Ukraine the war.

Russia won’t start WWIII. It’s been made abundantly clear their military skill is extremely lacking. Their technology is extremely lacking. Their motivations are extremely lacking. Their transparency to their own population is extremely lacking. Up against NATO they would be destroyed with their only option surrender or nuclear war. They are smart enough to not back themselves into a corner.

When a bully says give me you money or I’ll beat you up and throw rocks at your house and beat up your sister and mother… apparently you would negotiate a weekly payment to the bully and let him have your backyard so he can own the pool.

If Ukraine had missiles that could go 3000 km… and all Russian military bases and ammo manufacturing and equipment manufacturing is in reach… Russia is doomed to negotiate an end to the war.

Ukraine has a lot of conscripted rich kids captured now. Putin is likely hugely concerned.

The whole border is not at increased risk for breach by Ukrainian forces. His option now is to double his forces via forced conscription or back off and negotiate. The power shift is beginning.

The hope now is that Ukraine receives all the equipment and weapons to hold this ground and keep pushing deeper while protecting their troops. Would be great if they captured Kurst and Putin had a heart attack.

Remember… the Cold War was fought with proxy armies. Cuban and Angolans for Russia. South Africans and others for US. This is no different except Ukraine is the proxy for the west and Russia is the proxy for Iran and China.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-10-2024, 12:28 PM
MegaHorn's Avatar
MegaHorn MegaHorn is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 88
Default

India and China will never allow Russia to lose.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-10-2024, 01:25 PM
KGB's Avatar
KGB KGB is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
False but okay.

Putin keeps threatening WWIII and nuclear weapons and the weak cower and fail to do what needs to do.

Third party countries are supplying Russia with weapons to attack Ukraine and their civilian population and their military. They bomb hospitals and energy infrastructure. The level apartment building and whole towns and cities.

So your solution is for Ukraine to capitulate and give up? It is based upon your withdrawal of funding. Not sure you realize it but that is purely an indirect passive statement TO LOSE Ukraine the war.

Russia won’t start WWIII. It’s been made abundantly clear their military skill is extremely lacking. Their technology is extremely lacking. Their motivations are extremely lacking. Their transparency to their own population is extremely lacking. Up against NATO they would be destroyed with their only option surrender or nuclear war. They are smart enough to not back themselves into a corner.

When a bully says give me you money or I’ll beat you up and throw rocks at your house and beat up your sister and mother… apparently you would negotiate a weekly payment to the bully and let him have your backyard so he can own the pool.

If Ukraine had missiles that could go 3000 km… and all Russian military bases and ammo manufacturing and equipment manufacturing is in reach… Russia is doomed to negotiate an end to the war.

Ukraine has a lot of conscripted rich kids captured now. Putin is likely hugely concerned.

The whole border is not at increased risk for breach by Ukrainian forces. His option now is to double his forces via forced conscription or back off and negotiate. The power shift is beginning.

The hope now is that Ukraine receives all the equipment and weapons to hold this ground and keep pushing deeper while protecting their troops. Would be great if they captured Kurst and Putin had a heart attack.

Remember… the Cold War was fought with proxy armies. Cuban and Angolans for Russia. South Africans and others for US. This is no different except Ukraine is the proxy for the west and Russia is the proxy for Iran and China.
You are partially correct in the above. You are forgetting one simple thing- I know a little bit better how do Russians think and what they are thinking now in regards to the war situation. Putin is a problem for Russia and for the rest of the world but he is too smart for the current western leaders to dismiss him and his abilities. The biggest problem is this- you can’t run him into the corner! He can’t accept the defeat and he can’t win at the same time. So do you want to continue to spill the blood of Ukrainians and Russians? I know it’s easy to say YES sitting here in a nice house with a cold drink thousands of miles from bombs and bullets. But it will take a very strong diplomacy from people who want this war to end to negotiate peace with both sides. America started this war to weaken Russia and we all know that. America didn’t want Russia to become a powerhouse and join forces with China for the new world economic and political hegemony. America has to end this. My hopes are for Trump to put the end to this madness.
That’s what I think.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-10-2024, 01:46 PM
urban rednek's Avatar
urban rednek urban rednek is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,718
Angry Not a step back!

Anybody that is willing to let the Russian criminals invade and steal as much of Ukraine as they can take because the Russian citizens are a bunch of useful idiots should also be OK with letting the HAMAS criminals take as much of Israel as they want; because the Palestinians are useful idiots.
Whether they can see it or not, it's the same thing.

The same people should also be OK with letting violent criminals invade their property. After they rape and murder their family members, they should be willing to negotiate a peaceful deal that gives title of the property to the criminals.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” - Thomas Sowell

“We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.”- Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-10-2024, 02:04 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,615
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by urban rednek View Post
Anybody that is willing to let the Russian criminals invade and steal as much of Ukraine as they can take because the Russian citizens are a bunch of useful idiots should also be OK with letting the HAMAS criminals take as much of Israel as they want; because the Palestinians are useful idiots.
Whether they can see it or not, it's the same thing.

The same people should also be OK with letting violent criminals invade their property. After they rape and murder their family members, they should be willing to negotiate a peaceful deal that gives title of the property to the criminals.
You summed it up perfectly
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-10-2024, 02:52 PM
Mr Flyguy Mr Flyguy is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
You are partially correct in the above. You are forgetting one simple thing- I know a little bit better how do Russians think and what they are thinking now in regards to the war situation. Putin is a problem for Russia and for the rest of the world but he is too smart for the current western leaders to dismiss him and his abilities. The biggest problem is this- you can’t run him into the corner! He can’t accept the defeat and he can’t win at the same time. So do you want to continue to spill the blood of Ukrainians and Russians? I know it’s easy to say YES sitting here in a nice house with a cold drink thousands of miles from bombs and bullets. But it will take a very strong diplomacy from people who want this war to end to negotiate peace with both sides. America started this war to weaken Russia and we all know that. America didn’t want Russia to become a powerhouse and join forces with China for the new world economic and political hegemony. America has to end this. My hopes are for Trump to put the end to this madness.
That’s what I think.
Well said, time for this to end.
__________________
I fish, therefore I am.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-10-2024, 04:05 PM
traderal traderal is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: East Central AB
Posts: 1,321
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
You are partially correct in the above. You are forgetting one simple thing- I know a little bit better how do Russians think and what they are thinking now in regards to the war situation. Putin is a problem for Russia and for the rest of the world but he is too smart for the current western leaders to dismiss him and his abilities. The biggest problem is this- you can’t run him into the corner! He can’t accept the defeat and he can’t win at the same time. So do you want to continue to spill the blood of Ukrainians and Russians? I know it’s easy to say YES sitting here in a nice house with a cold drink thousands of miles from bombs and bullets. But it will take a very strong diplomacy from people who want this war to end to negotiate peace with both sides. America started this war to weaken Russia and we all know that. America didn’t want Russia to become a powerhouse and join forces with China for the new world economic and political hegemony. America has to end this. My hopes are for Trump to put the end to this madness.
That’s what I think.
Putin was friends with Klaus Schwab of WEF since 1991. I listened to a speech he gave to his member states where he said that his version of a New World Order was different than that of the West, so he is now more aligned with China and India. We now have two large entities vying for world control. Unfortunately they will both lose out in the last few years leading up to Armageddon. The best laid plans of mice and men aft gang aglae as the saying goes. There is a book whose last part tells exactly how this will go but you know, men just have to see who can pee higher up the tree. What is happening now has nothing to do with logic. The Greek, Babylonian, and Roman empires fell, and ours is going down too and we are witnesses to it.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-10-2024, 04:29 PM
BuckCuller's Avatar
BuckCuller BuckCuller is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,988
Default It’s not that simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urban rednek View Post
Anybody that is willing to let the Russian criminals invade and steal as much of Ukraine as they can take because the Russian citizens are a bunch of useful idiots should also be OK with letting the HAMAS criminals take as much of Israel as they want; because the Palestinians are useful idiots.
Whether they can see it or not, it's the same thing.

The same people should also be OK with letting violent criminals invade their property. After they rape and murder their family members, they should be willing to negotiate a peaceful deal that gives title of the property to the criminals.
And those that do not wish for a peace deal to end the Ukraine/Russia war wishes death upon all citizens of Ukraine in the end.
They will not win the war whether you like it or not.
__________________
As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-10-2024, 05:15 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
You are partially correct in the above. You are forgetting one simple thing- I know a little bit better how do Russians think and what they are thinking now in regards to the war situation. Putin is a problem for Russia and for the rest of the world but he is too smart for the current western leaders to dismiss him and his abilities. The biggest problem is this- you can’t run him into the corner! He can’t accept the defeat and he can’t win at the same time. So do you want to continue to spill the blood of Ukrainians and Russians? I know it’s easy to say YES sitting here in a nice house with a cold drink thousands of miles from bombs and bullets. But it will take a very strong diplomacy from people who want this war to end to negotiate peace with both sides. America started this war to weaken Russia and we all know that. America didn’t want Russia to become a powerhouse and join forces with China for the new world economic and political hegemony. America has to end this. My hopes are for Trump to put the end to this madness.
That’s what I think.
No. I don’t want to continue the war. I want Russia to stop. I want Ukraine to make their own decisions regarding their freedom. If they want to fight, they have my support.

It’s crap to say America started this war. I’m amazed you’d even suggest that.

Ukraine was no where’s near NATO acceptance. NATO was already closer to Moscow than Ukraine.

Your logic is flawed also. Russia would gain more power in the world by flowing oil and building their economy for their population. Instead the attacked Ukraine without provocation including capturing territory before their last 2 week… special operation started. Its crushed their economy over desire for a land grab.

One can put a Russian goggle over their eyes using Putin propaganda but facts are self evident. Russia started it. Their propaganda machine has been working hard to justify it and some have fallen hook line and sinker for it.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 08-10-2024, 07:51 PM
BuckCuller's Avatar
BuckCuller BuckCuller is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,988
Default Lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
No. I don’t want to continue the war. I want Russia to stop. I want Ukraine to make their own decisions regarding their freedom. If they want to fight, they have my support.

It’s crap to say America started this war. I’m amazed you’d even suggest that.

Ukraine was no where’s near NATO acceptance. NATO was already closer to Moscow than Ukraine.

Your logic is flawed also. Russia would gain more power in the world by flowing oil and building their economy for their population. Instead the attacked Ukraine without provocation including capturing territory before their last 2 week… special operation started. Its crushed their economy over desire for a land grab.

One can put a Russian goggle over their eyes using Putin propaganda but facts are self evident. Russia started it. Their propaganda machine has been working hard to justify it and some have fallen hook line and sinker for it.
It’s not Zelenskyy that is making the decisions. It’s the ones that put him in power and are feeding him arms that are calling the shots.
Who wanted to sell Europe natural gas and who blew up the Nord Stream pipeline?
__________________
As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 08-10-2024, 08:20 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckCuller View Post
It’s not Zelenskyy that is making the decisions. It’s the ones that put him in power and are feeding him arms that are calling the shots.
Who wanted to sell Europe natural gas and who blew up the Nord Stream pipeline?
Ahh the conspiracy of the CIA blew up the pipeline. Even though Russia boats were seen at the exact spot.

Russia had everything to gain by limiting gas THROUGH Ukraine.

Put pressure on the EU to not support Ukraine to protect gas shipments.

Zelenskyy isn’t making the decisions. He is part of a political party that is balancing many factors from what is worth… fighting or surrendering.

A few people are advocating for surrendering. I am so happy they were not Canadians at the start of WW2.

Freedom for some can be bought and sold and bargained for short term considerations and promises… but making a deal with a dictator is making a deal with the devil.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-10-2024, 08:28 PM
BuckCuller's Avatar
BuckCuller BuckCuller is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,988
Default What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Ahh the conspiracy of the CIA blew up the pipeline. Even though Russia boats were seen at the exact spot.

Russia had everything to gain by limiting gas THROUGH Ukraine.

Put pressure on the EU to not support Ukraine to protect gas shipments.

Zelenskyy isn’t making the decisions. He is part of a political party that is balancing many factors from what is worth… fighting or surrendering.

A few people are advocating for surrendering. I am so happy they were not Canadians at the start of WW2.

Freedom for some can be bought and sold and bargained for short term considerations and promises… but making a deal with a dictator is making a deal with the devil.
Sooooo your saying that Russia blew up their own pipeline instead of just turning off the taps?
Now that sounds like a conspiracy theory.
__________________
As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-10-2024, 08:33 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckCuller View Post
Sooooo your saying that Russia blew up their own pipeline instead of just turning off the taps?
Now that sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Yes. Because they can’t then say they are purposefully turning off the taps as that would erode their certainty in delivering gas.


If Russia uses energy as a political leverage, they become an unreliable supplier. The EU could say gas is shut off through Ukraine due to the war so ship it all on the other pipeline. Now that the other pipeline is gone… EU’s only option is to maintain gas flow through a war zone. Supporting Ukraine in the war means risking your own energy security. Russia can then say support us or risk the pipeline getting damaged in the war.

Very simple premise and far more likely than a far fetched CIA conspiracy.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-10-2024, 08:41 PM
BuckCuller's Avatar
BuckCuller BuckCuller is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,988
Default Bahahahahaha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Yes. Because they can’t then say they are purposefully turning off the taps as that would erode their certainty in delivering gas.


If Russia uses energy as a political leverage, they become an unreliable supplier. The EU could say gas is shut off through Ukraine due to the war so ship it all on the other pipeline. Now that the other pipeline is gone… EU’s only option is to maintain gas flow through a war zone. Supporting Ukraine in the war means risking your own energy security. Russia can then say support us or risk the pipeline getting damaged in the war.

Very simple premise and far more likely than a far fetched CIA conspiracy.
That’s some serious mental gymnastics you did right there.
You should be in the Olympics!
__________________
As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 08-10-2024, 08:51 PM
AxeMan's Avatar
AxeMan AxeMan is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,242
Default

Nord Stream sabotage:

No Sundance, not as simple as your statement of blame on Russia by saying Russian boats were seen at the exact spot. I always check your claims of fact now.

The investigations led to a chartered yacht called the Andromeda that was proven to have traces of the same explosive that was used to blow the underwater pipeline. That yacht was chartered by people with ties to the Ukraine.

Who knows though, the investigations continue. A false flag operation perhaps. We will likely never know for sure.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ns-2023-09-26/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/...ge-one-year-on
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-10-2024, 08:59 PM
roper1 roper1 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wheatland County
Posts: 5,890
Default

The senseless death, destruction, grief and cost could have easily been avoided. When Putin was massing 100,000 troops along the border, have Western money & technology spent then, never would have been a war. My .02
__________________
If you're not a Liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Conservative when you're old, you have no brain. Winston Churchill

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Edmund Burke
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-10-2024, 11:11 PM
6.5 shooter's Avatar
6.5 shooter 6.5 shooter is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 4,512
Default

So? The Ukrainians have take 48 Sq. miles of territory and captured hundreds of Russians and several villages and towns in 4 days. All without a navy or a sizable air force! And the Russians with the "second best/largest military in the world" have failed to capture as much ground in 365 days? Yup seems like a winning team to me.

But please do tell me more.
__________________
Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 08-10-2024, 11:18 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AxeMan View Post
Nord Stream sabotage:

No Sundance, not as simple as your statement of blame on Russia by saying Russian boats were seen at the exact spot. I always check your claims of fact now.

The investigations led to a chartered yacht called the Andromeda that was proven to have traces of the same explosive that was used to blow the underwater pipeline. That yacht was chartered by people with ties to the Ukraine.

Who knows though, the investigations continue. A false flag operation perhaps. We will likely never know for sure.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ns-2023-09-26/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/...ge-one-year-on
It would make more strategic sense for someone in Ukraine to blow it up as it then protects the pipeline through Ukraine which also supplies them gas in the winter if I recall. But the CIA theory is a joke.

Plus there is still evidence of Russia with bombing capable ships in the area at the time.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65461401#

Would a random yacht that someone could hire be capable of such an operation and do it in secrecy? Less doubtful. Is Russia capable of smearing some explosive residue on the yacht?

But yes… these two theories are plausible.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 08-10-2024, 11:20 PM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roper1 View Post
The senseless death, destruction, grief and cost could have easily been avoided. When Putin was massing 100,000 troops along the border, have Western money & technology spent then, never would have been a war. My .02
Their second front seems to be doing okay as well.

I am however wondering how many troops and assets are being committed and is there a steady stream moving in or one force. Is the flank protected. Are they widening the excursion or lengthening.

I’m suspecting this will be a textbook example in years to come for a success… and Putin’s 2 week special operation as a colossal failure.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 08-10-2024, 11:54 PM
Mr Flyguy Mr Flyguy is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharrozap View Post
Post #31 by Sundance is the best so far. Excellent describing what is going on in Russia.
I doubt it. Is there an imodium equivalent for verbal diarrhea?
__________________
I fish, therefore I am.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 08-11-2024, 12:37 AM
sailor sailor is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Edmonton,AB
Posts: 1,009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Their second front seems to be doing okay as well.

I am however wondering how many troops and assets are being committed and is there a steady stream moving in or one force. Is the flank protected. Are they widening the excursion or lengthening.

I’m suspecting this will be a textbook example in years to come for a success… and Putin’s 2 week special operation as a colossal failure.
Thanks for all your support but you won't get true answer this time on your question.
Be patient...
__________________
you know I prefer to shoot off hand

Last edited by sailor; 08-11-2024 at 12:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 08-11-2024, 10:16 AM
Sundancefisher's Avatar
Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 19,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Thanks for all your support but you won't get true answer this time on your question.
Be patient...
The vast majority of the world want Ukraine to have a major success here.

Fingers crossed.
__________________
Observing the TIGSCJ in the wilds of social media socio-ecological uniformity environments.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 08-11-2024, 10:25 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Near Drumheller
Posts: 7,028
Default

Ukes needed something positive, a morale and image booster for the population and the world to see. Whether it works for or against them, has yet to be seen.
At the moment, they seem to be in a precarious position. Maybe they know something about the Russians they are willing to gamble on, maybe it's an effort they were forced into a corner to make. Holding what they've gained there seems like a fool's errand, but, maybe they can, as long as Belarus stays out of it, they might, depends what the Poles are ready to do if Belarus gets involved. Russia is also in something of a precarious position, they can't handle a bigger war, and some Russian "provinces" aren't necessarily all that friendly to them.
Russia needs the Black Sea, it just managed to trap itself in the Baltic, maybe the Chinese would like some of their eastern seaboard turf back, and some of the Siberian resources. I don't think China is up for that, they have enough issues internally, without the external ones, but, you never know, as they have been playing some games over there. US can't handle a big long war on multiple fronts, but, with some help, can certainly screw China hard. And, N America has to remember it isn't out of range like it was in previous wars.

I hope the Ukes can pull this off and gain something out of it, but, there are a lot of traps in the way for them.
__________________
You should also be a member;
CCFR
CSSA
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 08-11-2024, 10:25 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,615
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter View Post
So? The Ukrainians have take 48 Sq. miles of territory and captured hundreds of Russians and several villages and towns in 4 days. All without a navy or a sizable air force! And the Russians with the "second best/largest military in the world" have failed to capture as much ground in 365 days? Yup seems like a winning team to me.

But please do tell me more.
That's what happens when the Ukrainians are finally given the nod to go ahead and use the weapons the west has supplied. For far too long they have been limited to fighting a defensive war because western powers have been scared of the crazy russians ramping up the war. Well guess what...the russians have proven that they don't have the man power, the ability, or the cash that they have been bragging about. If they even tried to ramp up the conflict any longer they will now find that they are vastly outclassed by surrounding well armed countries that remember all the years of russian abuse that they've been subjected to. It's time for the russian people to finally have a little taste of what they've been doing to their neighbours.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.