Minimum Poundage for Hunting

[nekred]

Ok enough of the debate, the laws are pretty clear....

These were developed by archery organisations in the us when lobbying for bowhunting seasons as being able to penetrate far enopugh for a lethal shot, based on historical eveidence.

55 lb bow.... Lots for anything in North America when used at under 45 yards as per IBEP recomendations. Arrow placement is king... 40lb bow in the heart is better than a 100# bow into a tree.

[walking buffalo]

First off... Nekred,
I think the OP's question has been well answered here, including your sage contribution.



And to Neil, as you likely perceive, I am not arguing, rather taking this as a friendly discussion.


The quoted paragraph from the Hunting Regulation Synopsis which is NOT a legal document.


Can anyone show me where Arrow length is mentioned in the Wildlife Act or Wildlife Regulations?


Wildlife Act
http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/sta...00-c-w-10.html


Wildlife Regulations
http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/reg...-143-1997.html


How about using 6" bolts from a crossbow, legal?

Yes, there is a reason behind this madness.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

First off... Nekred,
I think the OP's question has been well answered here, including your sage contribution.



And to Neil, as you likely perceive, I am not arguing, rather taking this as a friendly discussion.

The quoted paragraph from the Hunting Regulation Synopsis which is NOT a legal document.


Can anyone show me where Arrow length is mentioned in the Wildlife Act or Wildlife Regulations?

Wildlife Act
http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/sta...00-c-w-10.html


Wildlife Regulations
http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/reg...-143-1997.html


How about using 6" bolts from a crossbow, legal?

Yes, there is a reason behind this madness.

lol...love the madness...walking buffalo...sorry if my post came off as anything other than a friendly fact finding mission...lol..all is friendly ...no arguement from me...all good...I respect all others opinions and questions...

this is right from the ....

Wildlife Regulations
http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/reg...-143-1997.html
...........
also

Hunting with bow

105(1) A person shall not hunt big game, wolf, coyote or game birds with a bow (excluding a legal cross‑bow) and arrow unless he holds a bow hunting permit in addition to the licences, if any, that are otherwise required.

(2) A person shall not hunt big game with a legal cross‑bow during an archery only season unless the person holds a cross‑bow licence.

(3) A person shall not use an arrow that is less than 24 inches in length with any kind of bow that is not a cross‑bow for the purpose of hunting big game.AR 143/97 s105;134/2002


*For Crossbow there is no restriction on arrow or bolt length

Neil

[walking buffalo]

Thanks Neil, I kneel corrected.

And no need to apologize, I never took your comments in any other way than friendly.




So.....


I can use a 24" arrow and a bow that draws 40lbs@28"?

I guess that in function, there is no set minimum draw weight regulation.


Out of curiosity, for anyone with a 40lb@28" bow, what is the draw weight at 24"?

[Tox]

for traditional equipment I believe it is on average about 3# per inch lost, so 28# plus or minus.

[Tox]

The problem I see with the regulation is that it only works for traditional equipment or genesis type compounds. A compound with a 28" draw length is not designed to be drawn 24" so what is the minimum for a bow with a 24" draw length?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Tox

The problem I see with the regulation is that it only works for traditional equipment or genesis type compounds. A compound with a 28" draw length is not designed to be drawn 24" so what is the minimum for a bow with a 24" draw length?

Easy.... 24" Arrow @ 40 lbs

Technically

*Your rest location should dictate arrow length.
The most forgiving setup is the rest contact point at the berger hole (which is 1 3/4" less than the bow's DL). The arrows then should be cut 3/4-1" in front of rest contact, putting them about 1" less than the DL.

In english true draw is 1 3/4 from berger to roughly front of riser...with full containment rest on can down arrow even down mid riser...

SO a 24" draw compound shooting a 24" arrow is plenty...

and every bow smaller than 24" draw...have no choice BUT to shoot a 24" arrow...

Neil

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

We can thank the min arrow length to the Overdraw shooters of the 80's...super long overdraws with a 16" arrow on a 29" draw 73 LB....long list of dangers...including well exceeding min GPI for bow....was like dry firing a bow every shot

Rests at the time...The Golden Key-Futura prong style [high tech stuff then] was the order of the day...hard to keep arrow on rest...even with guard an overdraw near your elbow with arrow coming of rest on shot was anything BUT safe!!!

Neil

[nekred]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

We can thank the min arrow length to the Overdraw shooters of the 80's...super long overdraws with a 16" arrow on a 29" draw 73 LB....long list of dangers...including well exceeding min GPI for bow....was like dry firing a bow every shot

Rests at the time...The Golden Key-Futura prong style [high tech stuff then] was the order of the day...hard to keep arrow on rest...even with guard an overdraw near your elbow with arrow coming of rest on shot was anything BUT safe!!!

Neil

That would need like a 13" brace height or a slot cut into the overdraw for the string.... maybe a bit of exageration!....

I have seen 5" overdraws....

As for the comment about forgiveness.... how do you get an ugly cookie up to the berger button?

There actually is some debate on forgiveness and flex points some people believe it is most forgiving to have rest above the wrist (where the ugly cookie sits) not at the berger button... or where hand meets the bow handle which is where the berger button is located.... Or somewhere in between to negate both flex points...

but if you use an angled out grip then all flex points are removed.... thus you put the rest where it fits....

Of course and I tell people where I think they should put the ugly cookie!....since it also resembles a starfish...

[nekred]

Speaking of long overdraw... a friend of mine had the arrow flip off the rest and around the overdraw and rest right onto his wrist with a broadhead... it fell with enough force it actaull broke the skin and stuck in about an 1/8 inch and there he was stuck at full draw....BY HIMSELF.. In immense pain he had to grab arrow with his teeth and draw back string hard enough (soft wall bows then) to pull string out of nock and then let down beside arrow held in teeth with 100# draw!.... (guy was nuts)

I bought his bow for giggles and brought it to a range...cranked to the pin (I took off overdraw) I shot a 31" ACC3-71 with 125 grain tip through the butt, and into the back overhead door... and tip stuck through the door....

I belive it was a Hoyt Raptor before the went to the tek risor....

Awesome bow but you almost shat yourself when drawing it.... pretty cool a 540 grain arrow doing 310 fps.....

[nekred]

remember the accuriser which shot a 6" arrow!.....string was in a slotted tube.....almost like a vertical crossbow....

[Tox]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Easy.... 24" Arrow @ 40 lbs

Technically

*Your rest location should dictate arrow length.
The most forgiving setup is the rest contact point at the berger hole (which is 1 3/4" less than the bow's DL). The arrows then should be cut 3/4-1" in front of rest contact, putting them about 1" less than the DL.

In english true draw is 1 3/4 from berger to roughly front of riser...with full containment rest on can down arrow even down mid riser...

SO a 24" draw compound shooting a 24" arrow is plenty...

and every bow smaller than 24" draw...have no choice BUT to shoot a 24" arrow...

Neil

I understand it can be done with an overdraw, but look at it backwards.
Minimum draw weight is 40# with a 28" arrow drawn to it's head. If you only draw 24" there is nothing that says it has to be 40#@24"

[nekred]

I know it is crazy... you have a bow that is 40# at 28" and you have a draw length of 25" and not drawing all the way back... it is still legal!.....

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by nekred

That would need like a 13" brace height or a slot cut into the overdraw for the string.... maybe a bit of exageration!....

I have seen 5" overdraws....

As for the comment about forgiveness.... how do you get an ugly cookie up to the berger button?
There actually is some debate on forgiveness and flex points some people believe it is most forgiving to have rest above the wrist (where the ugly cookie sits) not at the berger button... or where hand meets the bow handle which is where the berger button is located.... Or somewhere in between to negate both flex points...

but if you use an angled out grip then all flex points are removed.... thus you put the rest where it fits....

Of course and I tell people where I think they should put the ugly cookie!....since it also resembles a starfish...

lol...

Any Ugly Cookie can be perfectally aligned with berger hole...with the exception on the cheapest model with the straight bar and rod that has no vertical adjustment which still can line arrow perfectally with the berger....but the top of the cookie leans slightly forward instead of top back slightly 1/16 for the ultimate shooting cookie..

The rest of the models have vertical adjustment to make this simple as any other.... I suggest the Ballistix CoPolymer Power Shot.


NOw as far as berger button and rest location...the berger is much more than a rest bolt hole...

the Berger is the center of the bows universe...most bows are designed starting at berger...Brace height ...valley of grip...same thing as berger...

arrow has to seat in the X spot for balance of bow ..limbs cam all other specs...
does the arrow seat center of a bow...NO...it seats at Berger as designed...center of bow is your grip/shelf where hand pressure should fall in pivot point...

wheeeeeeeeeeeee

lol

Neil

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Tox

I understand it can be done with an overdraw, but look at it backwards.
Minimum draw weight is 40# with a 28" arrow drawn to it's head. If you only draw 24" there is nothing that says it has to be 40#@24"

Your not getting it...yes you can still shoot a 28" arrow at 24" draw...LAW says you have to crank it up to 40LB to hunt...

here's how it reads

"An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). "



so
you can have a draw of...2" or 100" the bow still has to be 40LB and the arrow 24" to hunt period....lol

clear like mud huh...lol
Neil

[nekred]

Neil how about the 16" arrow in a 29" draw how does that work with overdraw?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by nekred

That would need like a 13" brace height or a slot cut into the overdraw for the string.... maybe a bit of exageration!....
I have seen 5" overdraws....

As for the comment about forgiveness.... how do you get an ugly cookie up to the berger button?

There actually is some debate on forgiveness and flex points some people believe it is most forgiving to have rest above the wrist (where the ugly cookie sits) not at the berger button... or where hand meets the bow handle which is where the berger button is located.... Or somewhere in between to negate both flex points...

but if you use an angled out grip then all flex points are removed.... thus you put the rest where it fits....

Of course and I tell people where I think they should put the ugly cookie!....since it also resembles a starfish...

looky you N catching on and chit...lol

Neil

[nekred]

Today's bows are built centred around berger button for the most part... they used to be centered on the deepest part of the handle... thus why tiller tuning was so important....

vertically now bows for the most part center on the berger button.

Horizontally some people like the rest at the berger button (which also coincides for the most part with the deepest part of the grip) some over their wrist....like jesse broadwater whose rest definitely far back compared to most...

and getting fancy with an ugly cookie is like putting lipstick on a pig or chrome on a Mack....

[Tox]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Your not getting it...yes you can still shoot a 28" arrow at 24" draw...LAW says you have to crank it up to 40LB to hunt...

here's how it reads

"An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). "



so
you can have a draw of...2" or 100" the bow still has to be 40LB and the arrow 24" to hunt period....lol

clear like mud huh...lol
Neil

My mistake you are correct.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

I think the confusion is how they wiegh in stick bows 50 LB " @ 28"

regardless bow cant be less than 40 Lb and arrow cant be less than 24"

Neil

[Tox]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

I think the confusion is how they wiegh in stick bows 50 LB " @ 28"

regardless bow cant be less than 40 Lb and arrow cant be less than 24"

Neil

That's exactly it.
so a longbow that is 40#@28' is illegal if your length is 27 63/64" LOL.

[nekred]

nope just has to be 40# when drawing a 28" arrow to its head....

problem is the law was developed BEFORE compounds and BEFORE solid back walls.....

then the nodified it to 40 lb draw weight.....

Now they go by PEAK draw weight meaning if bow is 40# but turned down.... and less than 28"....

All in All it is time for a revamp to stop the confusion... back to the OP 55# is more than enough....

Now here is a wrinkle with compounds if you are a 27" draw and you draw a 28" arrow to its head the draw weight is actually 16# on a 40# peak draw...

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Lol ...oh geez giddy up

Neil