Bitcoin pushing $70k...

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

False.

The card is a physical asset. It will always be so unless you burn it.

A Bitcoin can be worthless just cause. And you only are left with nothingness.

Lots of people push crypto. Why? Because it’s a legal Ponzi scheme.

It’s something worthless until someone tells you it’s worth something. They then say it will be worth more so buy some. That person then buys some and tells the next person they bought some so it’s valuable and they too should buy some.

Eventually someone says… hey… why is it worth something. Maybe I’ll sell. Then the price drops. The next person sells and so on. Meanwhile in the background someone is saying it’s falling and a great time to buy. That helps people get out.

Eventually some people have some but what’s it worth? Either the process restarts or the fad ends.

So the fact you can hold this card makes it an asset? I can open a granola bar, eat the bar and hold on to the wrapper, based on your logic, the wrapper is an asset. As I can physically hold it, however, it is completely worthless.

There are millions upon millions of hockey, baseball cards out there that are completely worthless, but people still hold them. That does not make it an asset.

Anyone talking about how crypto is all a ponzi scheme, has not spent any time researching or learning about crypto at all. Absolutely without regulation there are going to be scams out there, as anything else you need to do your research and understand what you are investing in.

Technically you are correct, Bitcoin is a digital currency, and that is really its only functionality. There are several other crypto's out there are solutions out there with real world problems.

Just because you don't understand how it works or what it does, does not mean it is a scam. seriously look at other top performing crytptos and learn what they do. Web 3 is going to be huge, and in the next 10 years, it is likely how you will access this site.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbest...h=4e6027c858df

All the naysayers pop in this thread when the price drops or something bad happens. Guess what, we are currently in what is called Crypto winter. the market is going to be like this for at least another year until the next bitcoin halving, which is in 2024. Prices will likely start to climb mid to late 2023 leading up to this. If you understood the crypto market you honestly could have predicted the drop from 65k to 20k.

Now is the time to stack at discounted prices.

Did you happen to see in 2021 how by using Reddit people manipulated GME and AMC causing hedgefunds to lose billions. That was done on a regulated stock market, which I do not believe you are calling a scam. 2008 Lehman Brothers went belly up, caused the entire market to crash.

Crypto is young and in the early stages, you have every right to sit on the edge and not jump in. I would recommend doing some research, probably start with Ethereum. I believe it is likely going to flip Bitcoin in the future (it will be a while). So many things are being done and developed on the Ethereum block chain it is going to be the future.

[bdub]

“It’s partly fraud and partly delusion. That’s a bad combination. I don’t like either fraud or delusion, and the delusion may be more extreme than the fraud.”

Munger added that he does not believe crypto is a real asset—and it should have never been allowed.

“This is a very, very bad thing,” Munger said. “The country did not need a currency that was good for kidnappers…There are people who think they’ve got to be on every deal that’s hot. They don’t care whether it’s child prostitution or bitcoin. If it’s hot they want to be on it. I think that’s totally crazy.”

"Good ideas, carried to wretched excess, become bad ideas," Munger said. "Nobody's gonna say I got some s*** that I want to sell you.

Recent take from Charlie Munger lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Roderek

So the fact you can hold this card makes it an asset? I can open a granola bar, eat the bar and hold on to the wrapper, based on your logic, the wrapper is an asset. As I can physically hold it, however, it is completely worthless.

There are millions upon millions of hockey, baseball cards out there that are completely worthless, but people still hold them. That does not make it an asset.

Anyone talking about how crypto is all a ponzi scheme, has not spent any time researching or learning about crypto at all. Absolutely without regulation there are going to be scams out there, as anything else you need to do your research and understand what you are investing in.

Technically you are correct, Bitcoin is a digital currency, and that is really its only functionality. There are several other crypto's out there are solutions out there with real world problems.

Just because you don't understand how it works or what it does, does not mean it is a scam. seriously look at other top performing crytptos and learn what they do. Web 3 is going to be huge, and in the next 10 years, it is likely how you will access this site.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbest...h=4e6027c858df

All the naysayers pop in this thread when the price drops or something bad happens. Guess what, we are currently in what is called Crypto winter. the market is going to be like this for at least another year until the next bitcoin halving, which is in 2024. Prices will likely start to climb mid to late 2023 leading up to this. If you understood the crypto market you honestly could have predicted the drop from 65k to 20k.

Now is the time to stack at discounted prices.

Did you happen to see in 2021 how by using Reddit people manipulated GME and AMC causing hedgefunds to lose billions. That was done on a regulated stock market, which I do not believe you are calling a scam. 2008 Lehman Brothers went belly up, caused the entire market to crash.

Crypto is young and in the early stages, you have every right to sit on the edge and not jump in. I would recommend doing some research, probably start with Ethereum. I believe it is likely going to flip Bitcoin in the future (it will be a while). So many things are being done and developed on the Ethereum block chain it is going to be the future.

Not a gamble I’m interested in. There are millions who now feel the same way. The system relies on new people being unaware of past losses jumping in on the hype.

I’ll leave it to others to buy imaginary currency with no financial backing and hope it goes up

It may or may not.

The system relies on fewer and fewer bitcoin being made each year.

Kinda like people making toys… limiting the number to boast sales by appearing to be limited supply. People still need to buy a toy. But at least you have a toy.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by bdub

“It’s partly fraud and partly delusion. That’s a bad combination. I don’t like either fraud or delusion, and the delusion may be more extreme than the fraud.”

Munger added that he does not believe crypto is a real asset—and it should have never been allowed.

“This is a very, very bad thing,” Munger said. “The country did not need a currency that was good for kidnappers…There are people who think they’ve got to be on every deal that’s hot. They don’t care whether it’s child prostitution or bitcoin. If it’s hot they want to be on it. I think that’s totally crazy.”

"Good ideas, carried to wretched excess, become bad ideas," Munger said. "Nobody's gonna say I got some s*** that I want to sell you.

Recent take from Charlie Munger lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Warren Buffet has also been on the record as being averse to tech stocks as he is a novice and does not understand them. So it does not surprise me that Munger would have a similar stance on it. Crypto is tech!

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...0-1-1028845920

I doubt we will ever get to hear if he regrets not investing in Crypto, since he is 92 years old and we are likely another decade or more away from it being mainstream. Only time will tell.

Personally, I have read enough that I believe Crypto is here to stay. I still invest the majority of my money through conventional methods, Stocks, and real estate, but started putting a little bit towards crypto over the last few years. I did pretty well when I first started and I did take some profits, so I never lost money although, most of what I left in are now way down. They are all solid projects that will bounce back. So for the next year and a bit I will hold them and continue to stack at discounted prices.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Roderek

So the fact you can hold this card makes it an asset? I can open a granola bar, eat the bar and hold on to the wrapper, based on your logic, the wrapper is an asset. As I can physically hold it, however, it is completely worthless.

There are millions upon millions of hockey, baseball cards out there that are completely worthless, but people still hold them. That does not make it an asset.

Anyone talking about how crypto is all a ponzi scheme, has not spent any time researching or learning about crypto at all. Absolutely without regulation there are going to be scams out there, as anything else you need to do your research and understand what you are investing in.

Technically you are correct, Bitcoin is a digital currency, and that is really its only functionality. There are several other crypto's out there are solutions out there with real world problems.

Just because you don't understand how it works or what it does, does not mean it is a scam. seriously look at other top performing crytptos and learn what they do. Web 3 is going to be huge, and in the next 10 years, it is likely how you will access this site.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbest...h=4e6027c858df

All the naysayers pop in this thread when the price drops or something bad happens. Guess what, we are currently in what is called Crypto winter. the market is going to be like this for at least another year until the next bitcoin halving, which is in 2024. Prices will likely start to climb mid to late 2023 leading up to this. If you understood the crypto market you honestly could have predicted the drop from 65k to 20k.

Now is the time to stack at discounted prices.

Did you happen to see in 2021 how by using Reddit people manipulated GME and AMC causing hedgefunds to lose billions. That was done on a regulated stock market, which I do not believe you are calling a scam. 2008 Lehman Brothers went belly up, caused the entire market to crash.

Crypto is young and in the early stages, you have every right to sit on the edge and not jump in. I would recommend doing some research, probably start with Ethereum. I believe it is likely going to flip Bitcoin in the future (it will be a while). So many things are being done and developed on the Ethereum block chain it is going to be the future.

GME and AMC were companies with sales and assets.

Bitcoin has a value pulled from the air… it’s a social delusion in which people just say it’s got value. Good for them. Not for me.

Also the manipulation was in response to hedge funds preying upon legit businesses.

Yes… manipulation can occur in a stock or commodity… but the risk is far great in crypto.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

GME and AMC were companies with sales and assets.

Bitcoin has a value pulled from the air… it’s a social delusion in which people just say it’s got value. Good for them. Not for me.

Also the manipulation was in response to hedge funds preying upon legit businesses.

Yes… manipulation can occur in a stock or commodity… but the risk is far great in crypto.

Crypto is not just Bitcoin.

GME and AMC stocks were over inflated and lots of people lost a lot of money not just the hedge funds for exactly the same reason, got in for FOMO chasing green candles when the price was high, and now it dropped.

What is the Canadian dollar backed by? US dollar used to be backed by gold but it is not anymore.

What is price of gold backed by? It is the fact it is considered a precious metal and a limited resource. What happens to the price of gold when they figure out how to mine asteroids or they find a major supply of it somewhere on earth. Suddenly gold isn't rare anymore and the market is flooded with it. All forms of currency started somewhere.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Roderek

Warren Buffet has also been on the record as being averse to tech stocks as he is a novice and does not understand them. So it does not surprise me that Munger would have a similar stance on it. Crypto is tech!

I doubt we will ever get to hear if he regrets not investing in Crypto, since he is 92 years old and we are likely another decade or more away from it being mainstream. Only time will tell.

Personally, I have read enough that I believe Crypto is here to stay. I still invest the majority of my money through conventional methods, Stocks, and real estate, but started putting a little bit towards crypto over the last few years. I did pretty well when I first started and I did take some profits, so I never lost money although, most of what I left in are now way down. They are all solid projects that will bounce back. So for the next year and a bit I will hold them and continue to stack at discounted prices.

Buffet has somewhat come around on tech I would argue, a tech stock (Apple) is now his largest single holding by far.

Buffet and Munger share similar opinions which he shared recently.

"it’s not a productive asset and it doesn’t produce anything tangible. Whether it goes up or down in the next year, or five or 10 years, I don’t know. But the one thing I’m pretty sure of is that it doesn’t produce anything,” Buffett said. “It’s got a magic to it and people have attached magic to lots of things.”

Good that you're not all in on the crypto and have some diversification. Thats one of the few free lunches around.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Roderek

Crypto is not just Bitcoin.

GME and AMC stocks were over inflated and lots of people lost a lot of money not just the hedge funds for exactly the same reason, got in for FOMO chasing green candles when the price was high, and now it dropped.

What is the Canadian dollar backed by? US dollar used to be backed by gold but it is not anymore.

What is price of gold backed by? It is the fact it is considered a precious metal and a limited resource. What happens to the price of gold when they figure out how to mine asteroids or they find a major supply of it somewhere on earth. Suddenly gold isn't rare anymore and the market is flooded with it. All forms of currency started somewhere.

Gold is backed by gold itself. It’s a physical commodity. Gold is used in electronics, aviation, jewelry, technology…

The Cdn dollar or US dollar is backed by the Canadian GDP or American GDP respectively and their economy. Things you can see as it’s public info. You have physical money you can exchange for fixed value. It’s why currency rates fluctuate.

If a currency drops like crypto… it means the country’s economy is toast.

Putting the few anomalous stocks up as a reason to support crypto… actually does the opposite.

Also…what does one do now with their crypto wallet? Do you store it with a company and hope their neither steal it nor lose it or go bankrupt or do you keep it at home or in a safe and hope the wallet doesn’t malfunction?

I suppose you can reduce that risk by investing in a bank fund.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Gold is backed by gold itself. It’s a physical commodity. Gold is used in electronics, aviation, jewelry, technology…

The Cdn dollar or US dollar is backed by the Canadian GDP or American GDP respectively and their economy. Things you can see as it’s public info. You have physical money you can exchange for fixed value. It’s why currency rates fluctuate.

If a currency drops like crypto… it means the country’s economy is toast.

Putting the few anomalous stocks up as a reason to support crypto… actually does the opposite.

Also…what does one do now with their crypto wallet? Do you store it with a company and hope their neither steal it nor lose it or go bankrupt or do you keep it at home or in a safe and hope the wallet doesn’t malfunction?

I suppose you can reduce that risk by investing in a bank fund.

My point on gold is, its price is based on its scarcity, I understand it is used for things, but what happens if they find a way to get a lot more of it. The price is based on supply and demand. They have already discovered large asteroids made of precious metals, they jsut need to figure out how to mine them.

If Trudeau keeps printing money our CDN is going to be worthless.

Do not keep your coins on any exchanges get a wallet or a ledger and keep it safely. Honestly this is no different than a bank. If I have my money in a bank and they go belly up, likely I lose all my money.

If I have a safety deposit box with my gold in it and the bank gets blown up or goes bankrupt, guess what I likely lose access to my safety deposit box.

There are several instances around the world where banks have limited the amount of money you can get out, and people standing in line for days to try an access their money.

Currently with wallets/ledgers you can recover them with a pass phrase, so as long as you keep that somewhere safe you can recover it. But yes if you lose that you could be screwed.

Currency came about as it was a system that was easier then bartering. The currency system can be anything, coins were just the first thing, as they were light and easy to replicate same size/shape for value.

Are you ok with online banking e transfers etc?

When I sell something on market place most times people send me an e transfer, I never actually touch the money, I get a transaction number and money goes in, then I use a debit card and money comes out. I was never actually given a physical thing to represent the money, it was just sent to me through the bank.

Have you tried to just walk into your bank and take out a large some of money lately? Most of them have a 2k per day limit without 48 business hours notice.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Roderek

My point on gold is, its price is based on its scarcity, I understand it is used for things, but what happens if they find a way to get a lot more of it. The price is based on supply and demand. They have already discovered large asteroids made of precious metals, they jsut need to figure out how to mine them.

If Trudeau keeps printing money our CDN is going to be worthless.

Do not keep your coins on any exchanges get a wallet or a ledger and keep it safely. Honestly this is no different than a bank. If I have my money in a bank and they go belly up, likely I lose all my money.

If I have a safety deposit box with my gold in it and the bank gets blown up or goes bankrupt, guess what I likely lose access to my safety deposit box.

There are several instances around the world where banks have limited the amount of money you can get out, and people standing in line for days to try an access their money.

Currently with wallets/ledgers you can recover them with a pass phrase, so as long as you keep that somewhere safe you can recover it. But yes if you lose that you could be screwed.

Currency came about as it was a system that was easier then bartering. The currency system can be anything, coins were just the first thing, as they were light and easy to replicate same size/shape for value.

Are you ok with online banking e transfers etc?

When I sell something on market place most times people send me an e transfer, I never actually touch the money, I get a transaction number and money goes in, then I use a debit card and money comes out. I was never actually given a physical thing to represent the money, it was just sent to me through the bank.

Have you tried to just walk into your bank and take out a large some of money lately? Most of them have a 2k per day limit without 48 business hours notice.

If gold ever becomes a limiting factor for society… maybe. However gold isn’t scarce from a technology perspective. It is however horded which increases its value. In the qualities an asteroid may have… finding it would render it near worthless as supply would far exceed demand.

Now rare earth metals are in short supply. But alas you have digressed.

Yes… inflation devalues currency. We’ve dropped 5 cents. No where near the swing of a speculative crypto. It’s extreme exaggeration to say our dollar will soon be worthless.

Money in the bank has some protection insofar as Canadian Deposit Insurance Corp. up to $100,000 per bank. However banks are also heavily regulated and publicly owned so transparent financial. There is zero protection for crypto.

Suggesting your bank stored gold being blown up as feasible reasons to invest in crypto… well your wallet could also be in the bank safety deposit vault and the usb stick melted. The melted gold can be sold. The destroyed usb… not.

E-transfers come with risks. Type in the wrong name or amount and you can be screwed. As is sharing your banking info and / or passwords. You can also mistype you crypto wallet password and recovery info…

The money in the bank is money in the bank. Subject to inflation.

An etransfer is a transfer in a tangible currency backed by the Canadian economy. You are sending tangible money… just electronically.

Few people take large sums out frequently and in a rush… however recently I did transfer out $100,000. No problems. Took 2 minutes.

You can’t convince me to gamble on crypto. That said knock your own socks off.

[The Cook]

Personally I think swampland in Florida is a safer investment.

[eric2381]

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[eric2381]

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[eric2381]

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[HVA7mm]

I admit to knowing very little about crypto. However, until I'm paid in crypto and all retailers accept all/any form of crypto, I'm afraid that I'm out. I really don't see it happening in my lifetime.

I do appreciate those that have taken the time to educate themselves and understand the concept however (especially those that have made bank, lol).

[Mb-MBR]

It appears some people have lost some money, a few people have made a lot of money and a lot of people have lost a lot of money. So, what's the secret, invest/buy and monitor hourly and as soon as you think you've made enough cash it in? Leaving and owning long term seems to be a losing proposition.

And ultimately if you don't know the game stay away from it, which applies to me.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

It appears some people have lost some money, a few people have made a lot of money and a lot of people have lost a lot of money. So, what's the secret, invest/buy and monitor hourly and as soon as you think you've made enough cash it in? Leaving and owning long term seems to be a losing proposition.

And ultimately if you don't know the game stay away from it, which applies to me.

The game relies on the greater fool theory. Thats the secret. 100% speculation that someone else will buy it at an ever increasing price.

Hopefully the FTX blowup take this giant pump and dump scheme out for good. It would be nice to see these celebrities that helped suck in the gullible go broke and end up in prison when it's all said and done.

[Bergerboy]

Didn't something similar to this happen with the ostrich market in the late 80's early 90's?

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Didn't something similar to this happen with the ostrich market in the late 80's early 90's?

Don't forget the llama market about the same time.
Then, when they couldn't come up with a new, latest and greatest commodity to pump and dump, they switched to the virtual world of dot coms; most of them were non-existent companies. This is just the latest iteration of their legal Ponzi schemes.

[eric2381]

Don’t forget the weed stocks. Which also suckered in a pile of people based on the stories “my neighbour, my co worker, somebody my buddy knows, etc etc etc, made a ton of money off the weed stocks”. People pile in based on greed. People pile in based on the fear of missing out. People get tunnel vision because they haven’t researched anything else, and they’re emotionally attached to the idea of owning it.

[Mb-MBR]

It appears SBF has been arrested in the Bahamas, so I'm assuming the FTX fiasco will be investigated...

[eric2381]

Btt

[Dean2]

Glad you bumped this one too. Makes very interesting reading to go back through the last couple of years. Given the Trillions lost in Crypto I am kind of amazed there are still fans of this. I get why criminals and terrorists love it, but not anyone else.

[eric2381]

I think the people that are investing in it are emotionally attached to it or the idea behind it. They’ve “researched” enough to believe the stories being told and they love to tell those stories and talk about it. It’s become part of their personality in a way.

[The Elkster]

The Tether story is the best part of this and eventually will likely be the crypto killer. Basically Tether is the main currency of crypto and its background is sketchy and vague. They print billions of Tether like monopoly money claim its backed by USD but provide no verifiable details and are headquartered offshore so not subject to regular scrutiny. Then this endless Tether monopoly money backstops a large portion of all other crypto buying thus inflating the whole market. Currently there is +80 BILLION tether in circulation with a claimed value of 1USD/ea. And Tether only has around 40 employees Hmmmm sounds reasonable. One day there will be a movie...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevene...h=5968049c73fa

[Roderek]

It's funny, always seems to be people not interested in crypto coming in and bumping the thread. Almost like they want to hit you with an I told you so.

This downturn (Crypto Winter)was predictable every Bull run in crypto has had a major downturn close to 90%. Not going back to read all the posts but am confident I have mentioned this before. It is also predictable that when we get close to the next Bitcoin halving(which correlates to all the big historical runs) you will see prices run up again.

I have also mentioned this in the past that the next Halving is anticipated to be March of 2024, so you should see the price start to go up late 2023 early 2024.

You can be happy with your decision not to invest in Crypto. And I can be happy in my decision to invest in crypto.

[eric2381]

Good Luck. I’m just hoping the crypto talk can stay in this thread.

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by Roderek

It's funny, always seems to be people not interested in crypto coming in and bumping the thread. Almost like they want to hit you with an I told you so.

This downturn (Crypto Winter)was predictable every Bull run in crypto has had a major downturn close to 90%. Not going back to read all the posts but am confident I have mentioned this before. It is also predictable that when we get close to the next Bitcoin halving(which correlates to all the big historical runs) you will see prices run up again.

I have also mentioned this in the past that the next Halving is anticipated to be March of 2024, so you should see the price start to go up late 2023 early 2024.

You can be happy with your decision not to invest in Crypto. And I can be happy in my decision to invest in crypto.

No Doubt, like buying $2000 in FEG in feb 2021 and cashing out @ $440,000 10 weeks later. I will say it's closer to gambling than investing IMO. But I'm still holding several coins.

[ehrgeiz]

Originally Posted by eric2381

I think the people that are investing in it are emotionally attached to it or the idea behind it. They’ve “researched” enough to believe the stories being told and they love to tell those stories and talk about it. It’s become part of their personality in a way.

Originally Posted by eric2381

Good Luck. I’m just hoping the crypto talk can stay in this thread.

I can't help but wonder if this comment was directed at me, or perhaps I'm just being too sensitive?

It's no secret that I'm passionate about cryptocurrencies. I actively participate in the market and possess a wealth of knowledge about it, surpassing that of your average investor or enthusiast. Like anyone else, I accumulate this knowledge through reading, listening, and firsthand experience. How do you learn? Do you invoke some ethereal muse to bestow newfound knowledge upon you?

Let's consider a hypothetical scenario: In 2025, the USD-Bitcoin trading pair exceeds $100,000. I typically don't focus on price predictions, but I believe this could be a possibility due to the halving. If that were the case, all-time high buyers, whom we sympathize with now, would have a profit. Would you still consider it a scam?

If crypto endures for another 5, 10, or 20 years, or if more corporations and sovereign nations adopt it, would you still dismiss it as a scam? What would it take for you to change your mind?

By the way, Eric, who appointed you the gatekeeper of discussion topics? The other thread refers to a financial market meltdown, so if stocks are no longer plummeting, isn't that off-topic as well? After all, these are discussion threads – if you're not interested in talking about crypto, simply choose not to read or engage.

[eric2381]

It’s not directed at you. It is a generalized comment. You are being too sensitive.