Grazing Lease Access - no response from leaseholders

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

It is part and parcel of having a lease, if it is to much work for them perhaps they should give it up. It used to be that you would contact the area manager, I cannot remember the proper title, and if the lease holder would not talk to him, he would just give permission. Ranchers have figured out how to work the system and they do. I don't know what the answer is, a large part of the hunting fraternity consists of A holes and we all pay. I don't blame the ranchers for wanting to keep people off, but it is public land.

I should have specified the lease land is one small part of land they are being contacted about. What I was trying to convey is face to face always means more and if your voicemail gets ignored it's not cause they hate hunters or they are a bad guy etc it's likely getting lost in the sea of other permission calls.

[W921]

Originally Posted by tikka250

I happen to work on a ranch that deals with this exact thing as well as talk to the neighbors about the situation. The sentiment is something along the lines of "they need to see me in person before I even consider it" 2 neighbors in the area have gone to a permission slip method that needs to be signed by both hunter and landowner.
People need to realize landowners are not just sitting around waiting for you to call. they have very busy lives and they often don't have time to answer a whole pile of voicemails especially if the answer is no anyways.

You can make countless trips to their residence and never catch them home. They won't answer phones and most ignore emails.
What does happen is alot of lease land is basically private hunting grounds. You own enough land and keep everyone off then you can do whatever you want and who will know. That or give outfitter exclusive hunting opportunities.
Now on other side of the coin the government says the lease holder is responsible for any damages that a hunter does on the leased land. This is wrong.
Fire is huge risk however some ranchers just use it as an excuse. Two feet of snow on the ground and some would still say a fire risk.
Basically just no love for fellow man. Community doesn't exist much anymore. Hunting trophies is money sport really. Fellowship, sportsmanship, teaching skills and creating adventure memories with kids,etc gone with the wind.

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by W921

You can make countless trips to their residence and never catch them home. They won't answer phones and most ignore emails.
What does happen is alot of lease land is basically private hunting grounds. You own enough land and keep everyone off then you can do whatever you want and who will know. That or give outfitter exclusive hunting opportunities.
Now on other side of the coin the government says the lease holder is responsible for any damages that a hunter does on the leased land. This is wrong.
Fire is huge risk however some ranchers just use it as an excuse. Two feet of snow on the ground and some would still say a fire risk.
Basically just no love for fellow man. Community doesn't exist much anymore. Hunting trophies is money sport really. Fellowship, sportsmanship, teaching skills and creating adventure memories with kids,etc gone with the wind.

It's this type of broad generalization that causes such a rift between hunters and landowners. I'm literally telling you that from my experience living working and hunting with landowners that they WILL give permission on lease or private if proper decorum is followed.
There are bad apples everywhere and if we all used assumptions based on the bad stories I can guarantee nobody would have hunting permissions.
These are all things I have seen or heard from actual landowners leased and private.the common theme is "Hunters these days have ruined permissions for themselves. They no longer have any respect for the land or land owners."

"Last year I gave permission for a guy to go into our lease quarter near home. I don't usually allow walking but he had his kid so I said as long as he stuck to the main trail he could drive. well in the spring I went out to find trails all over the place and the native grass now looks like a stunted racetrack and with it being so dry it's not going to recover for years!"
"Had a guy driving around on the section we have that lost bull. All the guys I let on have been told not to go in there as we don't want to push him even deeper in the bush. Well when I drive up to him he's a complete stranger and when asked who gave permission he had the balls to tell me he was good friends with the landowner. I had to yell at him that I was the landowner and if he didn't get off right away I'd charge him! I went and chained all the gates to that pasture after that!"
"Told a guy walk on only. Turns out walk on only to HIM means until he shoots a deer then he's allowed to drive wherever he wants"
Told a some guys they could elk and deer hunt but no moose as my daughter has a cow tag they said they only had deer tags anyways. Went in there to find 2 moose gutpiles!"

[W921]

Originally Posted by tikka250

It's this type of broad generalization that causes such a rift between hunters and landowners. I'm literally telling you that from my experience living working and hunting with landowners that they WILL give permission on lease or private if proper decorum is followed.
There are bad apples everywhere and if we all used assumptions based on the bad stories I can guarantee nobody would have hunting permissions.
These are all things I have seen or heard from actual landowners leased and private.the common theme is "Hunters these days have ruined permissions for themselves. They no longer have any respect for the land or land owners."

"Last year I gave permission for a guy to go into our lease quarter near home. I don't usually allow walking but he had his kid so I said as long as he stuck to the main trail he could drive. well in the spring I went out to find trails all over the place and the native grass now looks like a stunted racetrack and with it being so dry it's not going to recover for years!"
"Had a guy driving around on the section we have that lost bull. All the guys I let on have been told not to go in there as we don't want to push him even deeper in the bush. Well when I drive up to him he's a complete stranger and when asked who gave permission he had the balls to tell me he was good friends with the landowner. I had to yell at him that I was the landowner and if he didn't get off right away I'd charge him! I went and chained all the gates to that pasture after that!"
"Told a guy walk on only. Turns out walk on only to HIM means until he shoots a deer then he's allowed to drive wherever he wants"
Told a some guys they could elk and deer hunt but no moose as my daughter has a cow tag they said they only had deer tags anyways. Went in there to find 2 moose gutpiles!"

Was it actually the hunter and kid that you gave permission to that actually tracked up your field? I hope it wasn't . My experience is its the ones that don't ask permission that do the damage.
Hunters who get your permission to hunt a area would be more likely to report bad guys they see on your property so they don't get blamed for it. Plus the hunter with permission wants to be a benefit to you so he will have a place to hunt in the future.
I'm not labeling all lease owners the same way but I also know what is going on more and more every year.
There is a lot of public forestry example west of Longview that is basically private because no access. Lot of lease land in 305 that is basically used as private. Incredible amount of government pastures in South East Alberta that are basically private gifts to certain ones.
These government lands get hunted. Just not by the public.
I think the landowner license contributes. Supposedly used on specific quarter, not where elk happen to be or multiple times over if no public Hunters aound to see. Some people don't have to travel roads to get elk home.
We are loosing our gun hunting culture. Us older guys are less and less every year and more and more young people are basically urbanized and don't have the resources.
More and more regulations and prohibitions as more and more people think guns are dangerous and just used for bad.
Young people need places to shoot. Places to hunt. I fear our future will be like what's going on in former GREAT Britain right now

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by W921

Was it actually the hunter and kid that you gave permission to that actually tracked up your field? I hope it wasn't . My experience is its the ones that don't ask permission that do the damage.
Hunters who get your permission to hunt a area would be more likely to report bad guys they see on your property so they don't get blamed for it. Plus the hunter with permission wants to be a benefit to you so he will have a place to hunt in the future.
I'm not labeling all lease owners the same way but I also know what is going on more and more every year.
There is a lot of public forestry example west of Longview that is basically private because no access. Lot of lease land in 305 that is basically used as private. Incredible amount of government pastures in South East Alberta that are basically private gifts to certain ones.
These government lands get hunted. Just not by the public.
I think the landowner license contributes. Supposedly used on specific quarter, not where elk happen to be or multiple times over if no public Hunters aound to see. Some people don't have to travel roads to get elk home.
We are loosing our gun hunting culture. Us older guys are less and less every year and more and more young people are basically urbanized and don't have the resources.
More and more regulations and prohibitions as more and more people think guns are dangerous and just used for bad.
Young people need places to shoot. Places to hunt. I fear our future will be like what's going on in former GREAT Britain right now

Not my pasture just a story I was told. Honestly I don't even know why I'm in this thread as I barely big game hunt anymore as I just end up mad.
Rifle hunting has become such a gong show that I do my best to get my meat and get out because one way or another it seems at the end of the season %90 of the hunting population is mad, frustrated, fed up with anyone they can vent about from landowners to other hunters. Something about antlers that really brings out everyone's stupid.
I just wait for November to be over so I can go back to calling coyotes without fear of a truck driving over the hill at me.

[W921]

Originally Posted by tikka250

Not my pasture just a story I was told. Honestly I don't even know why I'm in this thread as I barely big game hunt anymore as I just end up mad.
Rifle hunting has become such a gong show that I do my best to get my meat and get out because one way or another it seems at the end of the season %90 of the hunting population is mad, frustrated, fed up with anyone they can vent about from landowners to other hunters. Something about antlers that really brings out everyone's stupid.
I just wait for November to be over so I can go back to calling coyotes without fear of a truck driving over the hill at me.

Don't get mad
Take a young fellow or a kid out. Let them do the shooting. Make it more about the adventure, the lunch, the experience.
You will find this more rewarding than you think.
Smile