Lithium Batteries on the trailer

[densa44]

I'm not trying to start trouble, just need information.

I have 2 lithium batteries on my trailer and the rig is solar powered and works just fine. What I need to know is do I need to disconnect them and bring them into the warm garage for the winter?

Thanks

[pikergolf]

I don't know if you need to, but I wouldn't leave a battery outside for the winter.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by densa44

I'm not trying to start trouble, just need information.

I have 2 lithium batteries on my trailer and the rig is solar powered and works just fine. What I need to know is do I need to disconnect them and bring them into the warm garage for the winter?

Thanks

Yes, absolutely. Storage long term in very cold weather can completely ruin a Lithium battery.

[Tommy]

While your rig may be set up to charge the batteries via your solar panels like many are, I would never rely on it for long term storage in winter. As others have mentioned always remove the batteries for the winter.

Tommy

[densa44]

I'll go and do it now.

Thx.

[The Elkster]

Using a lithium battery at below zero is okay but charging them in sub zero conditions will permanently damage them. Good lithium batteries have low temp charge protection but I wouldn’t count on that. Best to bring them in. Good thing they are so light. Love mine.

[hayseed]

My thoughts are any battery not being used in storage for winter, should be taken out, saves the lifespan on the cells big time.

[mooseknuckle]

A small note, be sure not too store on a concrete floor. I heard it's not good for them? Not sure if there is truth to that but I put on a work bench off the ground and use one of those smart trickle chargers. Heated garage is a bonus too.

[mayuan]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckle

A small note, be sure not too store on a concrete floor. I heard it's not good for them? Not sure if there is truth to that but I put on a work bench off the ground and use one of those smart trickle chargers. Heated garage is a bonus too.

I'll add my two cents to this one...

The original batteries from ~100 yrs ago were made from wax paper cells(non-conductive). Plastics weren't available and most other non-conductive materials were fragile or very heavy(glass, clay, ceramics and so on). The problem with concrete is that is is porous and would leech the wax from the battery ultimately creating a leak in the battery. Moving forward because wax cells were terrible, we had other materials that also didn't react to being on the floor, but this was more to do with leeching the other direction. Rubber, wood, metals and other materials that the cases were made of would absorb and/or deteriorate due to fluids on the floor. hence putting something on the floor to put the battery on. Modern batteries don't have any of these issues.

Lithium on the other hand shouldn't be stored in a sub-zero environment. The cells will deteriorate by up to ~2% as per the studies that I've read. Also heard, storing the cells above 75% charge can cause issues, this is just anecdotal information with no real facts to back it up.

[densa44]

I couldn't get the batteries out of the trailer. The man who put in my solar system (I'm a satisfied customer) screwd the battery boxes down to the angle iron holding the batteries. The heads of the screws are under the batteries, and the Demptser hwy, has ground off the sharp ends. So the batties have no carring handle and I can't get enough of my fingers in the box to lift the batteries. I have put it all back together and telling the whole story.

The trailer is parked on its own pad next to the garage, it doesn't get really cold like it did on the prairie if that matters.

Princess auto had those Noco boosters on sale and I bought 2 and they are now fully charged and in the vehicles.

How do I test them if the battery on the car isn't dead?

I really appreciate all the help, as my mother would have said, "I must have been away they taught all this at school!". Thanks guys!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by densa44

I couldn't get the batteries out of the trailer. The man who put in my solar system (I'm a satisfied customer) screwd the battery boxes down to the angle iron holding the batteries. The heads of the screws are under the batteries, and the Demptser hwy, has ground off the sharp ends. So the batties have no carring handle and I can't get enough of my fingers in the box to lift the batteries. I have put it all back together and telling the whole story.

The trailer is parked on its own pad next to the garage, it doesn't get really cold like it did on the prairie if that matters.

Princess auto had those Noco boosters on sale and I bought 2 and they are now fully charged and in the vehicles.

How do I test them if the battery on the car isn't dead?

I really appreciate all the help, as my mother would have said, "I must have been away they taught all this at school!". Thanks guys!

These are handy for lifting batteries out of tight locations, and for carrying batteries with no handles.

[Dean2]

The one Elk shows work great bu if you can't fit the one elk showed here is a version that attaches to the posts.

[densa44]

Thank you both.

[mooseknuckle]

Originally Posted by mayuan

I'll add my two cents to this one...

The original batteries from ~100 yrs ago were made from wax paper cells(non-conductive). Plastics weren't available and most other non-conductive materials were fragile or very heavy(glass, clay, ceramics and so on). The problem with concrete is that is is porous and would leech the wax from the battery ultimately creating a leak in the battery. Moving forward because wax cells were terrible, we had other materials that also didn't react to being on the floor, but this was more to do with leeching the other direction. Rubber, wood, metals and other materials that the cases were made of would absorb and/or deteriorate due to fluids on the floor. hence putting something on the floor to put the battery on. Modern batteries don't have any of these issues.

Lithium on the other hand shouldn't be stored in a sub-zero environment. The cells will deteriorate by up to ~2% as per the studies that I've read. Also heard, storing the cells above 75% charge can cause issues, this is just anecdotal information with no real facts to back it up.

Good to know. Thank you.

[Tannerdog]

Since we are on the topic of lithium batteries. I have a couple of them in 1000 ah and it was recommended that I use a lithium charger (Lifepo specific) vs straight 12v led acid charger. A couple of my newer chargers do have separate "modes" for lithium vs lead acid/AGM but my RV does not. My question is, if installed in an RV or vehicle that came with lead acid, will the built in charging (RV or truck) damage the lithium battery due to wrong voltage or charge cycle? I use 2 6v Trojans in the camper now and would love to get rid of the weight

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Tannerdog

Since we are on the topic of lithium batteries. I have a couple of them in 1000 ah and it was recommended that I use a lithium charger (Lifepo specific) vs straight 12v led acid charger. A couple of my newer chargers do have separate "modes" for lithium vs lead acid/AGM but my RV does not. My question is, if installed in an RV or vehicle that came with lead acid, will the built in charging (RV or truck) damage the lithium battery due to wrong voltage or charge cycle? I use 2 6v Trojans in the camper now and would love to get rid of the weight

Yes it will cause problems and may actually burn down the trailer. Swap the chargers and controller out for Lithium specific chargers.

[Subaru297]

Storage of lithium batteries in cold temperatures is fine and it actually slows down the discharge rate. In fact many people store batteries in the freezer to prolong the life of the battery.
However, it was mentioned that charging them or discharging them when cold will hurt your batteries. So disconnect your solar and your trailer from the battery and it should be fine for the winter. I would also charge them to around 75% capacity for long term storage but your battery manufacturer website should tell you what is the preferred state of charge for storage.

As an aside I leave my lead acid batteries hooked up to solar and sitting outside all year long. In fact I don't think I have disconnected them in 10 years and they are still going strong!

Cheers

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Subaru297

Storage of lithium batteries in cold temperatures is fine and it actually slows down the discharge rate. In fact many people store batteries in the freezer to prolong the life of the battery.
However, it was mentioned that charging them or discharging them when cold will hurt your batteries. So disconnect your solar and your trailer from the battery and it should be fine for the winter. I would also charge them to around 75% capacity for long term storage but your battery manufacturer website should tell you what is the preferred state of charge for storage.

As an aside I leave my lead acid batteries hooked up to solar and sitting outside all year long. In fact I don't think I have disconnected them in 10 years and they are still going strong!

Cheers

Storing Lithium batteries in the freezer is a bad idea. That is a left over from Nickel/Metal Hydride battery days. EVERY makers of Lithium batteries tells you to store them above 0 C if at all possible. They also tell you to charge them in an environment above 0 C if you can.
This is from a large seller of Lithium batteries, so they are very pro Lithium and downplay any negatives. They still recognise, sub zero storage is not good.

Lithium Batteries In Cold Weather – Everything You Need to Know

Winter’s just around the corner but that doesn’t mean your adventures have to stop! It does, however, bring up a good question: how do different types of batteries hold up in cold weather? And not only that but how do you take care of your batteries despite the frigid temperatures?

Luckily for you, we’re here (and happy) to answer your questions! Follow along as we discuss helpful tips and tricks for safeguarding your batteries this season.

What Happens To Batteries In Cold Weather

We’re going to put it to you straight – lithium batteries fare far better in wintry conditions than other battery types, but even still you’re going to want to take care of them. With the right preventative measures, your batteries can survive and thrive this winter. To protect your batteries, let’s first look into why we need to protect them from harsh environments in the first place.

A battery’s job is to store and release energy. Cold weather can get in the way of these important functions. Just like it takes your body several minutes to warm up after being outside, the same is true for your battery. Cold temperatures increase the internal resistance of a battery. This can lower the battery’s capacity. AKA – the battery can’t release as much energy or retain a charge as well in cold temperatures.

You guessed it -this means you’ll need to charge those batteries more frequently during wintery weather. Another important thing to remember is that the lifespan of a battery only includes so many charging cycles. This is something you want to preserve, not waste. Lithium deep-cycle batteries are rated to last between 3,000 to 5,000 cycles. But lead-acid, on the other hand, typically lasts around 400 cycles, so you’ll want to use those cycles more sparingly.


Lithium Batteries & Cold Weather Storage

As you know, winter weather isn’t something you have any control over. Mother Nature does what she wants. Still, you can take a few precautions to treat your battery as best as you can while it’s in the cold. So, what are these safeguards we’re talking about? Let’s get to it…

Keep Your Battery Clean

It’s important to keep your battery clean on summer days and wintry ones too, especially if you have a lead acid battery. It’s especially important before a long season in storage. Dirt and corrosion can cause some major issues for certain battery types and make them discharge quicker. We’re looking at you lead acid. With a lead acid battery, you’ll want to clean it with baking soda and water before putting it into storage. Lithium batteries, on the other hand, require zero maintenance. You heard that right.
Warm Up Your Battery Before Using It

As we said before, adventures don’t have to end just because Old Man Winter’s arrived. Maybe you’re a snowbird looking to take your RV south for the winter. We don’t blame you. Or maybe you’re ready for hunting season? Either way, don’t let the freezing temps stop you! Just like you’d warm your car for several minutes before cruising, do the same for your deep cycle batteries. Warm them up! That way you don’t shock your battery with a sudden jump.


Store Your Battery In Mild Temperatures

Now, this is something you won’t have perfect control over depending on where you keep your battery. However, it’s still important to know the ideal temperature for battery storage. That range is between 32 degrees Fahrenheit and 80 degrees Fahrenheit, but that doesn’t mean your lithium batteries won’t function beyond those temperatures. They will, but with lesser capacity. You may notice that they lose their charge quicker than normal.

Charge Your Battery Often

Unlike many battery types, Ionic Lithium Batteries can be used and discharged no matter how cold it gets, without causing damage. Phew.

But you don’t want to charge your battery in temperatures below 32 degrees Fahrenheit. It’s important to get your battery out of the freezing zone before charging it. Using solar panels may be an excellent option! Solar panels can help keep your batteries up and chugging, even in practically arctic conditions.

Lithium Batteries Vs. Lead Acid Batteries

Picture of Ionic lithium battery with heater.

While no battery performs perfectly in freezing weather, lithium batteries perform much better than lead-acid and other battery types. There are a few things that make the initial higher price tag worth it, such as:

Lithium batteries perform better in extreme temperatures.
Practically feather-weight, lithium batteries weigh ½ the weight of most lead acid batteries. They’re much easier on the back.
Ionic lithium batteries run an average of 3,000 to 5,000 cycles vs lead acid’s 400 cycles. Talk about a difference!

Lithium batteries outperform the competition by a long shot. This makes the initial price tag well worth the investment because you’ll save money in the long run.

When you aren’t concerned with your battery life, you have more freedom to tackle new adventures. Have we mentioned that our batteries also come Bluetooth-equipped? By using our Ionic App, you can tell the exact status of your batteries at any moment in time.

[bezzola]

I had one that hooked to the posts. Picked it up and the post broke off the top of the battery

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by bezzola

I had one that hooked to the posts. Picked it up and the post broke off the top of the battery

Ouch, I was thinking the same when I saw the picture of that carrier.

Thankfully my batteries have tabs to hook the carrying straps into.

[densa44]

I made a lifter to pull the batteries out of the trailer. I found that they aren't lithium, but 45 lbs G24DC Canada Proof lead acid,(I guess) I can't believe that Lithium ones would be so heavy. Anyway they are sitting on a small moving dolly, all washed fully charged and ready for next year. I turned the solar power to the batteries off.

Thanks for all the help, I was able to make a lifter like one of the designs you sent a picture.