Youth hunters to use crossbows ??

[1bowhunter12]

I was just thinking about this tonight watching 5 or 6 nice Muley bucks in my hay field . It would be nice if youths were allowed to use crossbows up until a certain age for bow hunting .. I know a couple young guys that would love to bow hunt but aren’t able to safely draw 40-50 or 60 pounds ..what are your thoughts .. ??it would probably get abused like a lot of things but it would get a lot of youth into archery with real chances of making clean shots and being succesful..

[Desert Eagle]

I would be on board with that change for sure. My son is a year away, and would have to work really hard to reach 40 pounds in a year.

[bowshot]

35 pound minimum now.

[1bowhunter12]

Yahh that is a pretty low and a lot of kids could pull that .. and likely most of the ppl that have crossbow permits could to lets be honest … but I don’t want to derail my own thread .. I just think if youth could use crossbow they be able to practice a lot more and be far more successful .. string jump and poor shotshappens all the time with whitetails at 25 yards with bows shooting 270-320 fps Nevermind a youth shooting a 35 lbs bow .. just saying I think it would be a good idea

[Lefty-Canuck]

With recent changes, most 12 year olds who really want to hunt with a bow can by practicing and building those core back/chest muscle to pull back 35lbs. No need to press the easy button IMHO.

LC

[Desert Eagle]

Where are you guys finding the 35 pounds change? I’m looking in the 2024 regs and still see 40 pounds.

Thanks!

[CBintheNorth]

Nothing wrong with kids having to wait a bit.
I've been in the same boat with my kids, getting them to do everything as soon as they were legal to do it, but it just means I wind up doing more, and them less.
I've now adopted the "when you're physically able to do it" mentality.
I find it makes them work harder to get there, wherever "there" is.
My 2 cents.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Nothing wrong with kids having to wait a bit.
I've been in the same boat with my kids, getting them to do everything as soon as they were legal to do it, but it just means I wind up doing more, and them less.
I've now adopted the "when you're physically able to do it" mentality.
I find it makes them work harder to get there, wherever "there" is.
My 2 cents.

That's what we did with my kids as well. They grow up pretty quick, too. It's amazing what difference even one year makes!

[1bowhunter12]

Yes I get working towards something and practicing and building muscle are all important things but the reality is not all kids are built the same and I personally think crossbows as an alternative would also be a much more ethical way for them to hunt .. I wouldn’t consider it hitting the easy button .. everybody else is allowed to buy equipment / long range etc etc to help there odds in being successful I don’t understand why youth have to hunt with the odds against them and adults don’t essentially .. just my 2 cents

[sakogreywolf]

I say leave it as is. Stalking a mule deer in the prairies is way easier with a crossbow than a compound bow. It won’t take much longer for youth to pull back a bow and hunt.

[1bowhunter12]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

I say leave it as is. Stalking a mule deer in the prairies is way easier with a crossbow than a compound bow. It won’t take much longer for youth to pull back a bow and hunt.

I honestly expected a better reaction about this topic but I suppose people are more worried about losing hunting opportunities to all the 12 year olds that are gunna decimate all of our wildlife in Alberta ..

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Desert Eagle

Where are you guys finding the 35 pounds change? I’m looking in the 2024 regs and still see 40 pounds.

Thanks!

It was supposed to be put through in the regs, it missed being printed. I have heard the online regs are to be updated soon.

LC

[sakogreywolf]

Originally Posted by 1bowhunter12

I honestly expected a better reaction about this topic but I suppose people are more worried about losing hunting opportunities to all the 12 year olds that are gunna decimate all of our wildlife in Alberta ..

Lol! I suppose if your the type to advocate taking the easy way out, you wouldn’t understand that teaching youth to appreciate working for something, even if it takes a little longer might be worthwhile. I guess I also expect better….

[1bowhunter12]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

Lol! I suppose if your the type to advocate taking the easy way out, you wouldn’t understand that teaching youth to appreciate working for something, even if it takes a little longer might be worthwhile. I guess I also expect better….

I most certainly am not that type of person . In fact quite the opposite ..I was aiming more toward ethics I guess … I don’t exactly expect my daughter when she’s 12 to shoot an elk at 30 yards with a bow at 35 lbs .. it’s just not that practical … but I see this thread is going nowhere

[calgarychef]

I agree about not pressing the easy button. Buy a bow, learn to shoot it.
If the kid can’t shoot the bow, they aren’t ready to hunt with one.

[honda610]

Honestly my 13 year old daughter is a small framed girl and in one summer she has managed to achieve 41 pounds with her bow. And that's not a crazy amount of shooting either. In my opinion 35 is too low. Someone will use mechanical broad heads and won't have enough kinetic energy to open and kill the animal. Or enough penetration on a larger ungulate.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by honda610

Honestly my 13 year old daughter is a small framed girl and in one summer she has managed to achieve 41 pounds with her bow. And that's not a crazy amount of shooting either. In my opinion 35 is too low. Someone will use mechanical broad heads and won't have enough kinetic energy to open and kill the animal. Or enough penetration on a larger ungulate.

If you use a mechanical broad head without 60-65KE… you need to reevaluate your setup.

Many people at 50lbs shouldn’t be using a mechanical head either.

I’m on the fence on the 35lbs change, many states have made the change to that and with current cam technology it’s possible if the hunter really limits their range (30 absolute max) and waits for a good shot opportunity.

Ironically the change was made so the youth could hunt sooner…. And we still have people wanting to use a X-Bow when they are able bodied.

LC

[honda610]

I agree completely you should not be using mechanical broad heads unless your north of 65 ibs. My wife is at 50 and my daughter is at 41 both using fixed 3 blades. Daughter is max shot of 20 yards. Wife is 30. Tree stands and ideal shot windows are all set for this or no shot will be taken.

[CNP]

Not for picking winners and losers. Youth but exclude seniors? What I'm for is inclusion of crossbows into authorized equipment for anyone. Doesn't really impact me as I have a lifetime crossbow license. But if you want to push this, don't pick winners and losers.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I agree about not pressing the easy button. Buy a bow, learn to shoot it.
If the kid can’t shoot the bow, they aren’t ready to hunt with one.

True; the same can be said about rifles.

Some kids may be able to shoot a .22 at 13, at maximum, others a .270.

With my kids, I would buy them licenses, but I'd get them to rattle and call for me etc. until they were strong enough and confident enough to handle a big game rifle. They were patient and now they out-hunt me (which is easy to do!)

Originally Posted by CNP

Not for picking winners and losers. Youth but exclude seniors? What I'm for is inclusion of crossbows into authorized equipment for anyone. Doesn't really impact me as I have a lifetime crossbow license. But if you want to push this, don't pick winners and losers.

Good point.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Update on the 35# draw weight reg change I saw on Facebook

Update on 35# reg change

Aug 29, 2024

From ABA President Brent Watson

Hi all – we just want to update everyone as to the 35# minimum draw weight reg change. The change did not show up in the printed or online version of this year’s regs as we had anticipated and hoped. In a conversation with Minister Loewen and myself (ABA President Brent Watson) late summer, Minister Loewen indicated he had signed off on that regulation change.
​
I emailed Matt Besko (Executive Director, Hunting and Fishing Branch, Alberta Forestry and Parks) the day the regs came out to ask what happened and Matt was surprised that it was not in there, but he would get the change updated on the online version and follow up on what was going on. In emails Matt Aug 27, Matt updated me on the situation with this pending reg change.
​
Even though Minister Loewen signed off the briefing note approving the amendment, it is scheduled to be taken to Cabinet this fall for final approval and change in legislation.
​Once cabinet approves it, it is usually declared within 24 hrs and becomes law. Likely would be in place for the very end of some seasons like the Dec-Feb elk, and Spring 2025 Black Bear for sure and for fall 2025.

As of this moment, the 35# minimum is still not “legal” this fall but will be as soon as Cabinet approves it in the coming months. Sorry for the confusion and disappointment. The wheels of government turn slowly and are complex. Something that you would think is a simple change, turns out not to be so simple.

Brent
2024 ABA President

[501s]

If the kid hasn't put the time and energy into becoming proficient with a bow, hasn't practiced, or isn't strong enough why would we try and find easier options for them? Let them earn the opportunity.

I understand the thinking, unfortunatley I don't agree. I watched my son practice for 2 years from age 10-12 dilligently, and got himself up to 42 lbs and harested his very first buck at 12 from a treestand making a perfect heart shot. He's also a really small kid and only weighed 60lbs at the time. None of it would have happened without dedication. If they want it bad enough they will make it happen. Why rob them of earning this just to make it easier?

[1bowhunter12]

For me it’s more about ethics and opportunity I guess .. how come you can’t shoot a moose or deer with a 22 ???? Yahhhh it can get the job done but it’s not legal for a reason ..it’s not very ethical in most situations ..you can lower the draw weight to 5 pounds and get 3 year olds hunting but that doesn’t solve anything ..this has nothing to do with the easy way out you guys ..I just think it would be a good way for kids to get out hunting with a real chance at success and still being efficient …

[sns2]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Nothing wrong with kids having to wait a bit.
I've been in the same boat with my kids, getting them to do everything as soon as they were legal to do it, but it just means I wind up doing more, and them less.
I've now adopted the "when you're physically able to do it" mentality.
I find it makes them work harder to get there, wherever "there" is.
My 2 cents.

Couldn’t agree more

[StiksnStrings]

The whole crossbow/ verticale bow thing is something I've gone back and forth on in my thinking. No crossbow here in Alberta without a medical but, in other parts of the country no problem. Me, I'd be okay with either during archrey season. As for making it easier for our youth, if it does why not? Being proficent with the weapon at hand and being able to make clean kills should be first and foremost. I think that as parents/mentors of young hunters that is up to us to insure. When my son was building up to heavier poundage I'd just tweak the bow a wee bit now and again without him knowing until one day he mentioned his arrows were flying odd. I confessed and bought him some correct spined arrows. He had gone from 30ish to 45lbs without ever knowing.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by 501s

If the kid hasn't put the time and energy into becoming proficient with a bow, hasn't practiced, or isn't strong enough why would we try and find easier options for them? Let them earn the opportunity.

I understand the thinking, unfortunatley I don't agree. I watched my son practice for 2 years from age 10-12 dilligently, and got himself up to 42 lbs and harested his very first buck at 12 from a treestand making a perfect heart shot. He's also a really small kid and only weighed 60lbs at the time. None of it would have happened without dedication. If they want it bad enough they will make it happen. Why rob them of earning this just to make it easier?

That’s an awesome story about your son! Congrats, Dad.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by StiksnStrings

The whole crossbow/ verticale bow thing is something I've gone back and forth on in my thinking. No crossbow here in Alberta without a medical but, in other parts of the country no problem. Me, I'd be okay with either during archrey season. As for making it easier for our youth, if it does why not? Being proficent with the weapon at hand and being able to make clean kills should be first and foremost. I think that as parents/mentors of young hunters that is up to us to insure. When my son was building up to heavier poundage I'd just tweak the bow a wee bit now and again without him knowing until one day he mentioned his arrows were flying odd. I confessed and bought him some correct spined arrows. He had gone from 30ish to 45lbs without ever knowing.

The crossbow thing in Alberta is tough because of the way tags are allocated here and what triggers general archery zones to go on draw. Other areas are not like that. Until you understand the mechanism it seems like “no big deal” however it is a big deal.

If harvest rate of a zone exceeds 15% (even though 18% of hunters are bow hunters) that general archery only goes to a draw… so crossbow inclusion is great for 2-3 years till everything goes on draw and bowhunting gets destroyed in Alberta.

To top it off… many zones are open early and crossbows can be used! Just people aren’t passionate about using them… you will find though many archers use their bow throughout the season even in general areas where rifle is open. I don’t know many that passionate about crossbows that do that I’m sure there are some.

There is a method to the seeming “madness”. Sept 1 you can use crossbows in many North and East zones… Sept 17 elk are open… you can “rut hunt” with a crossbow, more seasons open on the 23rd of Sept for general seasons… crossbows allowed! Oct 25th the “bowzones” allow crossbows. All general seasons crossbows are allowed…

LC

[StiksnStrings]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The crossbow thing in Alberta is tough because of the way tags are allocated here and what triggers general archery zones to go on draw. Other areas are not like that. Until you understand the mechanism it seems like “no big deal” however it is a big deal.

If harvest rate of a zone exceeds 15% (even though 18% of hunters are bow hunters) that general archery only goes to a draw… so crossbow inclusion is great for 2-3 years till everything goes on draw and bowhunting gets destroyed in Alberta.

To top it off… many zones are open early and crossbows can be used! Just people aren’t passionate about using them… you will find though many archers use their bow throughout the season even in general areas where rifle is open. I don’t know many that passionate about crossbows that do that I’m sure there are some.

There is a method to the seeming “madness”. Sept 1 you can use crossbows in many North and East zones… Sept 17 elk are open… you can “rut hunt” with a crossbow, more seasons open on the 23rd of Sept for general seasons… crossbows allowed! Oct 25th the “bowzones” allow crossbows. All general seasons crossbows are allowed…

LC

I used to be be one that just hunted with a bow so interesting stats that I was not aware of. A number of years ago a wmu I like to hunt went to archery draw and I thought it odd as I seldom see other bowhunters. Now I know.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The crossbow thing in Alberta is tough because of the way tags are allocated here and what triggers general archery zones to go on draw. Other areas are not like that. Until you understand the mechanism it seems like “no big deal” however it is a big deal.




If harvest rate of a zone exceeds 15% (even though 18% of hunters are bow hunters) that general archery only goes to a draw… so crossbow inclusion is great for 2-3 years till everything goes on draw and bowhunting gets destroyed in Alberta.






To top it off… many zones are open early and crossbows can be used! Just people aren’t passionate about using them… you will find though many archers use their bow throughout the season even in general areas where rifle is open. I don’t know many that passionate about crossbows that do that I’m sure there are some.

There is a method to the seeming “madness”. Sept 1 you can use crossbows in many North and East zones… Sept 17 elk are open… you can “rut hunt” with a crossbow, more seasons open on the 23rd of Sept for general seasons… crossbows allowed! Oct 25th the “bowzones” allow crossbows. All general seasons crossbows are allowed…

LC

Tell this to your ABA President Brent Watson.

It was just a few years ago that Brent was the Province's strongest advocate for Mule Deer be put on an Archery draw because "there are too many bowhunters" (his words)....


He passive aggressively lobbied to have many WMU's put on draw even though the data showed that harvest was well below the 15% threshold.
He refused to submit accurate harvest data to the government that would have greatly limited the number of areas put on draw.
He refused to lobby for an increased Archery harvest percentage based on user demand....
Quite simply, he wanted Archery seasons to be on a draw.

Hopefully some day soon the ABA membership will open their eyes.


Let's follow Brent's lead and allow kids up to 18 to use crossbows, if seasons have to go on draw, so be it.
After all, there already are "too many bowhunters"....

[heretohunt]

From my experience, I would say definitely no to crossbow. If they want to use a crossbow, there is the general season.
Three of my kids learned to shoot a bow proficiently by 12 years old. In the process, they strengthened their muscles enough to all be able to pull over 40 pounds. I don’t believe there should be an easy button for that. Overcoming the challenge is part of the process.
If they are not able to pull the 40 pounds by hunting season, they can still hunt birds, rabbits, and squirrels with a bow. Tagging along with their mentor will encourage them to practice.