Wildlife Management Systems

[CdnElJefe]

Howdy folks,

This is just a general question on different wildlife management systems. As I have gotten deeper into the hunting world the last couple years I have done some comparisons between our Alberta animal populations and those in the US.
My question is for anyone who has insight as to what the difference is between wildlife management styles that lead to states such as Oregon, Colorado, Wyoming, Washington etc. etc. having 4-10x as many elk as Alberta, even though they are 36-45% the size?

Curious if anyone has information or opinions as to why Alberta couldn't carry an elk herd of 150,000 when states like Colorado have more people and have around 250,000?

Regards

[MooseRiverTrapper]

We have world class habitat. Few provinces or states have habitat to support everything from antelope to mountain goats.

We have terrible management and year round hunting from natives.

[walking buffalo]

Alberta's habitat could easily support massive populations of elk.

The Alberta government manages for drastically lower populations in agricultural areas quite simply for agricultural reasons.

Our Elk populations in "wilderness" areas are severely depressed mostly due to what I consider to be weak and wrong government decisions on predator management, specifically wolves and bears.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

We have world class habitat. Few provinces or states have habitat to support everything from antelope to mountain goats.

We have terrible management and year round hunting from natives.

The US also has way better system for funding its wildlife management and enchantment programs.

You don’t get world class management on a welfare budget like we run and most provinces for that matter

[CBintheNorth]

This is what you get when hunting by non-natives is looked at nationally with nearly the same disdain as oil and gas.
Essentially, we're the only ones that give a rat's ass.

[elkhunter11]

Hunters are generally the largest supporters of game management , and here in Canada, hunters are under attack by the federal government/ RCMP so it's not surprising that game management is underfunded/understaffed. And here in Alberta, APOS gets much more consideration than the resident hunters, and their only consideration is the outfitters profits, not in managing the the resource for the future resident hunters. Lastly, unregulated hunting is a huge factor for some species, in some areas, and game can't be managed properly, unless all hunters are regulated.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Hunters are generally the largest supporters of game management , and here in Canada, hunters are under attack by the federal government/ RCMP so it's not surprising that game management is underfunded/understaffed. And here in Alberta, APOS gets much more consideration than the resident hunters, and their only consideration is the outfitters profits, not in managing the the resource for the future resident hunters. Lastly, unregulated hunting is a huge factor for some species, in some areas, and game can't be managed properly, unless all hunters are regulated.

Game management has been under funded in Canada long before attacks on firearms owners. It was less of an issue because there was a smaller population with less impact on wildlife habitat and numbers

APOS gets more consideration do to being a more organized user group, stronger lobbying, and ability to generate funding. Like it or not the are out working resident hunters and are more organized vs resident hunters who are too busy infighting

The US also has unregulated hunting by natives and like it or not this is not going away anytime time soon. One of the first things resident hunters need to do is stop trying to battle FN rights if they want to be taken seriously

First things first we need to admit resident hunters, their representation is a disorganized mess and change within is needed before resident hunters will be taken seriously

But I just got off nights and most would rather point fingers at everyone else instead of fix the issues within our own camp/ representation so it’s a waste of typing

[Grizzly Adams1]

Curious if anyone has information or opinions as to why Alberta couldn't carry an elk herd of 150,000 when states like Colorado have more people and have around 250,000?

Farmers and ranchers would be protesting in the streets.

Grizz

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Game management has been under funded in Canada long before attacks on firearms owners. It was less of an issue because there was a smaller population with less impact on wildlife habitat and numbers

APOS gets more consideration do to being a more organized user group, stronger lobbying, and ability to generate funding. Like it or not the are out working resident hunters and are more organized vs resident hunters who are too busy infighting

The US also has unregulated hunting by natives and like it or not this is not going away anytime time soon. One of the first things resident hunters need to do is stop trying to battle FN rights if they want to be taken seriously

First things first we need to admit resident hunters, their representation is a disorganized mess and change within is needed before resident hunters will be taken seriously

But I just got off nights and most would rather point fingers at everyone else instead of fix the issues within our own camp/ representation so it’s a waste of typing

While game management has always been underfunded, the situation has gotten much worse. There are fewer officers in the field, and many of the offices that used to exist in the smaller communities were closed. All this is going on while our population has increased dramatically.
You are correct about APOS and money, money does buy influence, and APOS has money while resident hunters don't have a formal way to use money to buy influence.
As for the USA, unregulated hunting and trespassing on private property while hunting, are taken much more seriously there. Landowners get much more support from the authorities there. Meanwhile here you can get the RCMP to rush out and interfere with a lawful goose hunt, two days in a row on the very same property, with a phone call, yet good luck getting quick response when you report trespassing or night hunting to RAP.

[3blade]

Pay off the AG lobby and crop damage, fix the habitat, fix the predator population (to the screams of KVT and his NDP ecoterrorists)…10-20 years later the elk population increases …. AND… the treaty hunters will switch to elk and undo everything with the full (unconstitutional, as if that matters) backing of the federal government

No point.

[Big Grey Wolf]

The Grand Prairie/Peace River area is good example of how successful elk numbers can be developed. When I was young we had "NO Elk" in entire Peace Country. Now we have probably 70% of entire Alberta elk population. Some Wmus they give out over 1000 tags each fall to try control the numbers.
However farmers like my cousins not to happy as elk over run their hay stacks in the winter.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

While game management has always been underfunded, the situation has gotten much worse. There are fewer officers in the field, and many of the offices that used to exist in the smaller communities were closed. All this is going on while our population has increased dramatically.
You are correct about APOS and money, money does buy influence, and APOS has money while resident hunters don't have a formal way to use money to buy influence.
As for the USA, unregulated hunting and trespassing on private property while hunting, are taken much more seriously there. Landowners get much more support from the authorities there. Meanwhile here you can get the RCMP to rush out and interfere with a lawful goose hunt, two days in a row on the very same property, with a phone call, yet good luck getting quick response when you report trespassing or night hunting to RAP.

You broken record BS about APOS on here and FB is funny.

Where is all this money APOS and outfitters have? I have yet to see it.

[300magman]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

We have world class habitat. Few provinces or states have habitat to support everything from antelope to mountain goats.

We have terrible management and year round hunting from natives.

Bingo.

Another aspect is placing financial value on the wildlife to alleviate the damages that come from them to producers. I know people here hate the idea of paid access, but when you place financial value on the access to hunt, it makes supporting a healthy population of say elk on your property much more palatable than only incurring the damages for no financial gain. Does it offset the damages……the amount it helps depends on the quality of animals and what you can charge for a hunt or contract your land to an outfitter for. Like or not, that’s a big factor we don’t have and leads to producers wanting/needing numbers controlled to a lower density here.

[matt1984]

The sad thing is that in many of the states their elk population is booming in the mountains. Here our mountains are nearly devoid of elk now. The harvest reports in the 400’s are depressing. Need to deal with the wolves and bears.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

You broken record BS about APOS on here and FB is funny.

Where is all this money APOS and outfitters have? I have yet to see it.

What is funny is that APOS made McMahon, probably the most convicted poacher in Alberta a director. And Brown a past president is also a convicted poacher. The outfitters certainly don't operate for free.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

What is funny is that APOS made McMahon, probably the most convicted poacher in Alberta a director. And Brown a past president is also a convicted poacher. The outfitters certainly don't operate for free.

Good to see your not calling him the president anymore.

[Trappingman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

What is funny is that APOS made McMahon, probably the most convicted poacher in Alberta a director. And Brown a past president is also a convicted poacher. The outfitters certainly don't operate for free.

Most outfitters are poachers outfitting needs to go the way of commercial fishing

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Good to see your not calling him the president anymore.

No reputable organization involved with wildlife, would put a convicted poacher in any kind of executive position. At least Brown only had one conviction under the Wildlife Act, McMahon had many, as well as criminal convictions.

[wildalberta]

our climate isnt overly forgiving on game animals for one. i tend to believe that the wide open killing spree's in decades gone by is really rearing its head with our influx of population and hunting involvement in the last 20 years. lots of things are wrong and will likely never be fixed properly. its all about feeding the hungry mouths these days it seems.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Trappingman

Most outfitters are poachers outfitting needs to go the way of commercial fishing

2x..

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

No reputable organization involved with wildlife, would put a convicted poacher in any kind of executive position. At least Brown only had one conviction under the Wildlife Act, McMahon had many, as well as criminal convictions.

The minister making decisions about game management these days is an outfitter, the head of a family that outfits. If one thinks that APOS doesn’t have open access to this minister and a great deal of privilege and influence on game management decisions, that would be very naive.

[Smoky buck]

And as the different wildlife user groups go round and round fighting things will continue to decline

Right now it’s cheaper and easier for government to play referee dolling out the scraps well everyone tries to get more or eliminate the other user group so they are happy with the present state of things

The government doesn’t intend to get rid of GO’s, FN, or resident hunters anytime in the near future. They welcome the way the groups are distracted fighting rather than pushing issues to improve wildlife numbers and habitat.

OP you see how fast bickering about the different groups started in this thread alone that is a huge part of why we can’t have nice things

As long as this mindset is common nothing will change

[270person]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Good to see your not calling him the president anymore.

Who cares what position he holds really? APOS painted themselves with the same brush by 1) allowing snakes as members and 2) allowing snakes to sit in positions of influence.

APOS is their own worst enemy.

[wwbirds]

Interesting first post. Prepared the popcorn before the show started.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by CdnElJefe

Howdy folks,

This is just a general question on different wildlife management systems. As I have gotten deeper into the hunting world the last couple years I have done some comparisons between our Alberta animal populations and those in the US.
My question is for anyone who has insight as to what the difference is between wildlife management styles that lead to states such as Oregon, Colorado, Wyoming, Washington etc. etc. having 4-10x as many elk as Alberta, even though they are 36-45% the size?

Curious if anyone has information or opinions as to why Alberta couldn't carry an elk herd of 150,000 when states like Colorado have more people and have around 250,000?

Regards

Markymark is that you!

[sns2]

Originally Posted by wind drift

The minister making decisions about game management these days is an outfitter, the head of a family that outfits. If one thinks that APOS doesn’t have open access to this minister and a great deal of privilege and influence on game management decisions, that would be very naive.

In the extreme.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

How do you blame APOS for the elk being non existent in the 400 wmus? You would think they would want the opposite.

[CdnElJefe]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Markymark is that you!

Not I haha

[CdnElJefe]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

interesting first post. Prepared the popcorn before the show started.

🍿🍿🍿😂😂