Worker Missing After Dozer Goes Through Ice

[Jims83cj5]

Originally Posted by Positrac

Absolutely awful news. As previously said, condolences to the friends and family of the operator.

Some of you need to step away from your keyboards and take a few minutes to compose yourself. All that has been stated is that a dozer went through ice on a Tailings pond and the operator is unaccounted for. No other details but it would be safe to say the dozer would not have been out working in the middle of a frozen pond like some of you are thinking. They do push material around the edges of them all day, every day though. Any quick search on the net would show you that. Be assured that the incident will be thoroughly investigated by the authorities and OH&S, and they will place blame where it is do.

Interesting that there is nothing in the news about it right now. It looks like Elks snippet came from a company issued bulletin.

Thank you, some common sense finally

[sns2]

You’d almost think this involved a police shooting in a Nova Scotia firehall. Wowzers, some love to argue. A young man died.

[Jims83cj5]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

So sad to hear.
You and I both know that some still pencil whip the hazard assessments, not saying this is what happened but it does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If anything is being “pencil whipped” then there is a liability for the contractor and the prime. Supervision should be checking the flra and be doing the daily tool boxes as well as the weekly safety meeting. The prime should be attending some of these and signing off on them. All subcontractors being managed by any prime will need to meet the primes safety requirements or exceed them before a contract is awarded. Prime 101 people. There will be almost 0 chances that there is not something in place to prevent this from happening. Then there is the obligation to intervene and to refuse unsafe work on the workers part. Something went wrong when the fail safes where in place in any serious incident. If charges are laid it will be because something was not done correctly and in order for that to happen there would need to have been a known correct way to do it.

[elkhunter11]

The simple fact, is that things happen that shouldn't, and lives are lost. I remember two contractors losing their lives, because one went into a vessel to recover a wrench that he had dropped, and he passed out, because the vessel was under a nitrogen purge. The second man had no idea what was going on, and went in to save his friend, and collapsed as well. By the time someone went to check on the missing men, both had suffocated. There was a "no entry" sign at the entrance to the vessel, and any vessel entry requires a special permit, but the man disobeyed the sign, and entered with out a permit. His co-worker did not immediately report the man down, contrary to all basic training that all workers receive, and he also disobeyed a sign, and had no permit. So when an incident like this occurs, it is usually the result of multiple failures, not just a single oversight. The same is true with the dozer operator, for him to drown, it took several failures, not just one oversight.
As I was told when I started at the plant back in 1980, we aren't making cookies, there are explosive gases, poisonous gases, extreme flammables, high voltage, high pressure steam, harmful chemicals, hot surfaces, and many other hazards present, so we had a system of safety practises in place to protect everyone and to keep us from harm, but the system is useless, if everyone doesn't follow the rules. We had many close calls over the years, but usually, even if there was one failure, another safety protocol prevented a serious incident from occurring. And the most important thing to remember, is that every worker needs to protect himself, you don't depend on someone else protecting you, even if they are supposed to.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Jims83cj5

If anything is being “pencil whipped” then there is a liability for the contractor and the prime. Supervision should be checking the flra and be doing the daily tool boxes as well as the weekly safety meeting. The prime should be attending some of these and signing off on them. All subcontractors being managed by any prime will need to meet the primes safety requirements or exceed them before a contract is awarded. Prime 101 people. There will be almost 0 chances that there is not something in place to prevent this from happening. Then there is the obligation to intervene and to refuse unsafe work on the workers part. Something went wrong when the fail safes where in place in any serious incident. If charges are laid it will be because something was not done correctly and in order for that to happen there would need to have been a known correct way to do it.

I hear you on this, intervention, prevention etc but the stuff I saw especially later into a shut down, turn around, jobs not frequently done just baffles me at times from all levels.


Then there are the incidents/accidents/near misses that even though all the boxes were checked things went south real quick.

Just sad to loose a life.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The simple fact, is that things happen that shouldn't, and lives are lost. I remember two contractors losing their lives, because one went into a vessel to recover a wrench that he had dropped, and he passed out, because the vessel was under a nitrogen purge. The second man had no idea what was going on, and went in to save his friend, and collapsed as well. By the time someone went to check on the missing men, both had suffocated. There was a "no entry" sign at the entrance to the vessel, and any vessel entry requires a special permit, but the man disobeyed the sign, and entered with out a permit. His co-worker did not immediately report the man down, contrary to all basic training that all workers receive, and he also disobeyed a sign, and had no permit. So when an incident like this occurs, it is usually the result of multiple failures, not just a single oversight. The same is true with the dozer operator, for him to drown, it took several failures, not just one oversight.
As I was told when I started at the plant back in 1980, we aren't making cookies, there are explosive gases, poisonous gases, extreme flammables, high voltage, high pressure steam, harmful chemicals, hot surfaces, and many other hazards present, so we had a system of safety practises in place to protect everyone and to keep us from harm, but the system is useless, if everyone doesn't follow the rules. We had many close calls over the years, but usually, even if there was one failure, another safety protocol prevented a serious incident from occurring. And the most important thing to remember, is that every worker needs to protect himself, you don't depend on someone else protecting you, even if they are supposed to.

I'm betting this worker had no training on working on the ice with heavy equipment. Or no documented training for the job on the ice. One thickness is required for moving equipment, a totally different thickness required for being parked on ice.

When I drove on the ice roads to the diamond mines and others in the area, we were required to take a course on traveling on ice. It covered ice thickness required for the different weights. In dispatch offices concerns with ice on different lakes was posted with maximum speeds for these lakes and no parking on these lakes etc..

We will never know what or if he was trained, it's sad but his life could have been saved.

BW

[Jims83cj5]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

I'm betting this worker had no training on working on the ice with heavy equipment. Or no documented training for the job on the ice. One thickness is required for moving equipment, a totally different thickness required for being parked on ice.

When I drove on the ice roads to the diamond mines and others in the area, we were required to take a course on traveling on ice. It covered ice thickness required for the different weights. In dispatch offices concerns with ice on different lakes was posted with maximum speeds for these lakes and no parking on these lakes etc..

We will never know what or if he was trained, it's sad but his life could have been saved.

BW

The chances of this unfolding the way you said is almost zero!

[honda610]

Such a sad incident.
I have spent 24 years in the oil sands.
From base plant, syncrude, suncor, cnrl, to syncrude mines at Aurora and base mine. All as a contractor either maintenance, construction or directly with the client on loan.
By far the amount of close calls and near catastrophic incidents that go hidden, kept hush hush or just don't make the news is ridiculous. People go into these plants planning on going home everyday....not in a body bag.
But the lack of proper training, common sense, Preventative Maintenance is grossly mismanaged.
Alot of people up there are upside down on there mortgages and will do more to keep the boss happy.
Nepotism is rampant, my son or cousin needs a job etc.
I know of area managers who were drug dealers in high school still might be.
The plant likes to burn and explode, the mine crushes and drowns you.
The tailings ponds are not typical ice roads or ponds in the traditional sense.
Imagine a vast pile of sand, water, oil, that undercuts what was safe at lunch doesn't freeze in the middle.
I would not drive a tailings dozer for all the rice in China.
The north provided me with a great childhood and a awsome start in life. But after Exxon and all the changes in the last 15 years I would not recommend a young man or women heading north for the oilseeds money. It's not there and neither is the community it once was.
No one should have an end like that.
Condolences to the family's of the deceased may they rest in peace.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Suncor is killing a contractor a quarter. That Mark Little should have never been allowed to retire with a fat pension.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Jims83cj5

Have you seen the price of oil, come up with another reason to blame someone

Western Canadian Select was under $35/barrel for the 12 months preceding this incident. If I remember correctly, the price even went negative for a period.

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by NCC

Western Canadian Select was under $35/barrel for the 12 months preceding this incident. If I remember correctly, the price even went negative for a period.

Suncor is fully integrated, so they’re a lot more insulated from WCS price swings than other upstream producers, and the negative period was a matter of future contracts for a few days—and that was close to three years ago now.

[Jims83cj5]

Originally Posted by NCC

Western Canadian Select was under $35/barrel for the 12 months preceding this incident. If I remember correctly, the price even went negative for a period.

But that’s not now

[Penner]

Regardless of the size of the dozer 17” of ice? I’m just starting to feel comfortable driving a 1/2ton on 17” of ice never mind a dozer.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Penner

Regardless of the size of the dozer 17” of ice? I’m just starting to feel comfortable driving a 1/2ton on 17” of ice never mind a dozer.

And tailings ponds are not like a typical lake, the ice can be very unpredictable. A backhoe operator drowned in a CNRL tailings pond in 2008, and an operator on foot, drowned at a tailings pond at Suncor in 2014. I have walked on a tailings pond to out extensions on vent pipes, and we pushed an aluminum boat across the ice, and wore life jackets and tether ropes to the boat, and a rope on the boat, that could be used to pull us and the boat to shore, if we broke through.