Adding a second level on a bungalow

[El Carnicero]

Hi guys.

We have been looking at doing some renos and have wondered about adding a second level, rather than selling the house and moving from the area we love.

Firstly, We now it can be done, as we know a few people, (since lost touch with so can't ask them questions) who have done it with success.

Does anyone on the forum have experience personally in doing this or know of some reputable companies that do this type of reno?

We are currently in Calgary, in Midnapore. The house was built in 76, with 2x4 construction and is 1100 Sq/ft.

We would like to add a master bed, bathroom and a nice sized "owners retreat" area.

As well we would add a 200 Sq/ft section onto the main floor of the house to square off the shape (currently an L shaped house) and create a front entry, and sitting/hobby area.

We understand there is a significant cost to this type of reno and we have weighed out the options of selling and moving vs. building, and have come to the conclusion that even finding a house to buy in the area here that is bigger is going to cost us significantly more than doing the reno. (not to mention we only have 95,000$ left on the mortgage of the house.

So anyway. Any personal experience or know of some reputable companies that you guys could offer would be great.

[Hawkhills]

Did a major Reno in 2003.Moved the front of a bilevel out 12 feet including basement. Lived in it with 2 small kids and 2 dogs.WOULD NOT RECOMMEND.If you have alternate living accommodations maybe.The end goal is worth it but minimum 6 months of hell to get there.Good luck

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

[Cement Bench]

one thing in life that I am familiar with and have always told others when making major decisions like this is to carefully consider

THE DOWNSIDE RISK

this could drain,your finances, drain your marriage, drain your bank account, drain your money in litigation for bad or incomplete construction

in my not so humble opinion don’t

house is to old and with 2 by 4 construction just get a new house


if I,am wrong I buy you a pop

if right, you owe me nothing as you,will be broke and in counselling

just trying to be helpful, cared in 4 lawsuits of this nature and no winners for,the,homeowner

[MyAlberta]

My neighbours did this. A couple team that renos. She works city engineering. They did a wonderful finish both in and out. The only downsize was my property assessment increased. Location and characteristics of neighbourhood will determine the level of payback you’d get. Don’t build something that is hard to sell.

PM if you want a contact.

[2 Tollers]

We had a 1400 sq bungalow (2 x 4 perimeter walls) and we were faced with the same decision on needing a larger home, liking the area and would the investment be worth it. Our lot gave us the ability to expand the width and length of the house. We explored going up a level and the costs of this (changing perimeter walls, beams new exterior wall skin vs expanding one level. I had structural and architectural people that do home renos provide concepts and budgets to help us on the which way we would go.

We ended up going expanded single level and did not add to the basement as it had limited re-investment value. We added just under 800 sq ft on grade beam with a crawl space and fully re-configured / modernised the old main floor. The home is fully re-skinned with extra depth of insulation added to the outside walls which we were able to do, as we changed all windows and doors. We have a custom roof line and front entrance so the house does not look like a reno / add on.

We lived in the basement while this work was done (6 months).

There are a couple of homes nearby that are the same style that have demolished the main floor, kept the foundation and built a 2 story on top which might be cheaper now with the framing kits.

If you are seriously thinking on adding a 2nd story to the 2 x 4 perimeter and interior bearing walls I would start with a structural / architect review as the first step in planning. For the amount of work that will be involved there may not be much left on the main floor and you may wish that you cut it off and re-built new on the foundation. Alternatively look at a horizontal expansion with an increased footprint.

[expedition]

Plan on total gut in basement and of course main . No living in building while construction underway. If you're going that far knock 2x4 walls down start over! guaranteed to rain . People say tarp it . The first thing that happens before a evening thunderstorm is always heavy winds. Headache forsure .

[Redneck 7]

You could always rip off the roof, strip the exterior 2x4 wall and reframe a second wall 1” inside of the exterior wall and put up another 2x4 wall. Re wire, plumb where needed and better R value when re insulated. Then you’ll have a better load bearing exterior for a second floor. Just a thought.

[let it fly]

If you are going the 2nd story route, strip it right to the floor, you will likely want to remodel some and rewire. The hassle of the reno and building up walls isn’t worth it plus it’s way easier to take it all down instead of just parts, so that would likely be quicker too. Add to that possibly moving your stairwell to accommodate the 2nd story one. It will likely take your contractor 1-2 days to be back to being ready to put your 2nd floor on, plus it’s the way it should be. I considering doing this to my house but the ROI just wasn’t there.

My 0.02.
Wish you luck

[fishtank]

Sell it and buy another one .... like other have said you will probably run into unexpected things and it will cost allot more then you planned. It’s would be easier and less stress and headache .


Would it be option to knock it down and build it up ?? you will get to redesign the house and make sure the basement foundation is good . While it’s getting build , Rent another place, Probably for 9-12 months .

[JB_AOL]

I have friends that did this, Major renovation, spent big $ (close to $200k). Still aren't happy with the "end" product.

There are just some things you can't do.

Truly ask yourself WHY you want to do this. Is it worth the hassle? Remember, you won't be able to stay in your house for most of it (if at all), that means renting something. Short term rentals aren't cheap. Will you get your return on investment? As in, depending on where you are in midnapore, being able to get the value added by the renovation when you sell might be VERY hard.

I suspect your math is off if you think doing the addition is cheaper than buying a larger home, which in today's market should be cheap.

Another thing to keep in mind is, the reno's won't stop. Unless you have been regularly updating your house, wifey will want an updated addition, which means now that she will want to update the rest of the house. Nothing is worse than a house with a 70's kitchen and a 2010's master bedroom/bathroom.

[Stinky Buffalo]

We considered this as well - and given the original house condition, the neighborhood and the lot size, we took the second-storey option off the table. We then had to choose between doing an infill or moving.

Found another house we liked, better neighborhood and schools etc., and bought that one instead.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by El Carnicero

Hi guys.

We have been looking at doing some renos and have wondered about adding a second level, rather than selling the house and moving from the area we love.

Firstly, We now it can be done, as we know a few people, (since lost touch with so can't ask them questions) who have done it with success.

Does anyone on the forum have experience personally in doing this or know of some reputable companies that do this type of reno?

We are currently in Calgary, in Midnapore. The house was built in 76, with 2x4 construction and is 1100 Sq/ft.

We would like to add a master bed, bathroom and a nice sized "owners retreat" area.

As well we would add a 200 Sq/ft section onto the main floor of the house to square off the shape (currently an L shaped house) and create a front entry, and sitting/hobby area.

We understand there is a significant cost to this type of reno and we have weighed out the options of selling and moving vs. building, and have come to the conclusion that even finding a house to buy in the area here that is bigger is going to cost us significantly more than doing the reno. (not to mention we only have 95,000$ left on the mortgage of the house.

So anyway. Any personal experience or know of some reputable companies that you guys could offer would be great.

El.. I think I know the exact Bungalow you are in. I have seen the $$ spent and can advise on the return. As well, I have a builder who has done these expansions in Bonavista, Parkland and I think Sundance.
I will send you a PM with some contact info.

Jamie

[artie]

One thing to consider is architectural design. In some sub divisions they have rules on what you can and cannot do to your house.
I once was going to build a log house in Calgary but found out I can't because all the houses in the sub division have to be the same.
Unless you have cash check with your banker to see how much money they will lend you. I know one person building a new home in Calgary the bank said they would not lend him anymore money to complete the project. The project was shut down until he found a new bank to get more funds.
Really do your homework as some inspectors will let you continue building and then one might come along and say well you can't do that here.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Golfed with friend who did this few years back. Welcome to hell, live at least one year somewhere else etc. No end to the problems they went through. Sell the bugelow and buy a 2 storey.

[El Carnicero]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Another thing to keep in mind is, the reno's won't stop. Unless you have been regularly updating your house, wifey will want an updated addition, which means now that she will want to update the rest of the house. Nothing is worse than a house with a 70's kitchen and a 2010's master bedroom/bathroom.

Funny/frustrating this about this comment is that you are absolutely right.
we did a kitchen reno a few years back and it looks great. Not out of place with the rest of the hosue at all, and took out a wall to make it feel bigger, which is nice. But the wife is definitely spirring on the room to room renos and then she comes up with this.

[Dean2]

Either knock it down completely and rebuild with 2x6 Energy efficient design, modern wiring, triple pane windows, modern heating etc or sell it and buy a new house. Half measures are REALLY expensive and never get the end result you really want. You will also wait a really long time to get your money back out. In the current market you can buy a relatively new top end house far cheaper than building, and even a new build is far cheaper than renovating.

[El Carnicero]

There is definitely some good points brought up here.
we have already thought of the moving out while doing any renos as staying sounds like a trail all in its own.

The most frustrating part is that we love the area, but any other houses that come up around for sale that are bigger end up being WAY out of price range. and even those need some manner of updating be it windows or flooring, bathrooms ect.

We did some looking around in newer areas and we just find a lot of claustrophobic streets, houses and yards. I get that the developers want to put in as many people in an area as possible to make money, but jeez a big of space from your neighbors and not fighting for a parking spot on the street ever night would be nice.
We love the older areas for the wider streets and the bit more room between each house and the back yard for the kids. Yet none of the new areas seem to have what we are looking for.

Hence the reno idea. As far as getting our money out of it, we look at this as a long term situation. We've owned the house for 13 years already, and will have it paid off in another 5 tops. We would be happy to raise the kids to adults in the neighborhood. The area is so convenient with everything from groceries and shopping to schools and playgrounds. Reno'ing the house would definitely make our house stick out in the area, but that's not to much of a concern for us.

I put some feelers out today to some companies around town and we will see what comes back.

[nast70]

Good friends of ours did this with their house about 10yrs ago. Built it for them, empty nesters, big bedroom for them, office space, entertaining etc. Turned out to be a huge b-stard to sell. Didn't get their money out of it. Very small market for that type of house in a mainly family orientated neighborhood.
Like others have said, think about long term repercussions.

[sharpstick]

El, along with many on here, I would opt for either knocking yours down and starting over if you love the area/lot that much or selling and buying a different place. I have never met anyone that have done major renos that would do it again. Everyone of them have said they should have knocked it down and built new or found a different/new place. No matter what renos you do to your place, it will still be considered a 1976 house and that doesn't do you any good on resale. Also, the horror stories I have heard with construction companies lately is horrendous. I good friend of mine is in litigation as we speak over this exact scenario, although it is in Cochrane.
Best of luck to you.

[Dean2]

You will have to touch back once you get pricing and decide what you are finally going to do. Would be very interested to hear the outcome.

Whatever you decide, rent an apartment, house, or whatever close by and move completely out while they rebuild. Even a travel trailer is a better option than living in the house undergoing major work. You will save your sanity, and maybe even your marriage. Trying to live in a basement with all the workers, dirt and dust is just a terrible experience for a guy and will drive most women completely nuts.

[El Carnicero]

I will definitely keep posting updates on this.

I contacted 3 companies this morning around 10 AM and all 3 got back to me by 230 pm and have meetings set up with all of them within the next week.

[cankhun3]

you can always weigh your options either selling or doing the Renos .... which is best for you

[jpohlic]

My two cents after designing houses for 22 years...

If all you are looking to add on the second floor is an owners bedroom/retreat and bath, you might not need all 1100 sq ft of your footprint area. If the stair location works then maybe consider attic trusses with a few dormers instead of a second floor system and exterior walls. It wouldn't look as out of place and could be cheaper to build.

I thought of doing attic trusses to our previous house - we did a full reno on it but it was still too small, just a lot nicer. We ended up building new to get more space but sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't have built up the old house instead.

[EZM]

If the existing main floor footprint changes quite a bit like enlarging the kitchen or relocating bathrooms, etc... consider taking it down and building a 2 story on the same footprint from scratch. The price difference is negligible and you will get new 2x6 walls, windows, wiring and plumbing.

We have done one exactly as you described and budgeted $150-$180/ft and blew past it and spent closer to $260/ft when it was all said and done.

The second story option, pretty much a brand new home, was priced at $250/ft.

We should have done that, it would have been the same money and actually been finished quicker.

That was about 10 years (or more ago) for a 1200ft2 bungalow built in 1958. Probably similar to your situation. Prices might be higher now.