Lethbridge Photo Radar

[JrProspector]

Hey guys and gals,

Just got a photo radar ticket in the mail going southbound on Whoop-Up Drive in Lethbridge.
The ticket is a fairly substantial amount, so I am not so keen on just paying it, but would like to either get it reduced or thrown out completely.

I was on my motorcycle, and there is a vehicle about 1-2 seconds ahead of me in the same lane or the lane to my right (cannot tell).

Since the motorcycle plates are smaller, and the camera was fairly far away, you also cannot definitively tell if the second letter on the plate is an x, y, or an i, as it is moderately blurry.

Looking for some advice as to how to get this reduced, or even better yet thrown out completely.

Thanks in advance !

[Hat in the Cat]

You can bet the actual photo on file has no issue identifying the letter (better resolution than what is printed on the letter). Often multiple pictures are taken which will identify if you were gaining or losing distance on the other vehicle.

Not very helpful I know but I am just trying to say that you shouldn't try to build a case on those factors.

[Ken07AOVette]

Were you speeding? Is the speed you were caught at accurate?

If you answer YES to one or both of these, why do you feel you do not have to comply with posted limits?

[JrProspector]

Appreciate the reply and information you provided.

From what I've read online (cant believe it all obviously), you can request calibration and other maintenance policies set by the manufacturer of the camera and then make sure they have maintenance records backing the manufacturer specs.
Do you know if this is generally a solid approach ?
Seems like most people just show up and ask for a reduction and are granted that.

I've also heard from friends that they have mailed the ticket in and never got anything back confirming the date to appear meaning it is dismissed?

Obviously I am not too familiar with this at all, but looking to see what kind of odds are stacked against me.

Originally Posted by Hat in the Cat

You can bet the actual photo on file has no issue identifying the letter (better resolution than what is printed on the letter). Often multiple pictures are taken which will identify if you were gaining or losing distance on the other vehicle.

Not very helpful I know but I am just trying to say that you shouldn't try to build a case on those factors.

[Bitumen Bullet]

They won't likely let you win on that and they don't send you all the evidence they have, hey nobody said the law was fair.

BUT if you have the time and money I'd say go for it. Start by researching the speed limits in the area, ask for the evidence against you, what machine was used, who was the operator, training, calibration and so on. Lots of info on the net on how to fight these tax grabs.

Wish I had the time to fight a ticket I got for going 60kph through Hinton, only stopped for gas at the Husky (no side road driving) but the picture was zoomed into my plate so I could not tell where the offense was alleged to have occurred along Hwy 16. I was also a little suspicious of going what appeared to be almost exactly what the posted limit was, usually I'm a little above or below.

But it takes time and money to fight and they know it.

[JrProspector]

Honestly I can not recall the date at all if I was or not, as the date of the ticket was just shy of a month ago.

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Were you speeding? Is the speed you were caught at accurate?

If you answer YES to one or both of these, why do you feel you do not have to comply with posted limits?

[Bitumen Bullet]

Originally Posted by JrProspector

Seems like most people just show up and ask for a reduction and are granted that.

I've also heard from friends that they have mailed the ticket in and never got anything back confirming the date to appear meaning it is dismissed?

Don't think it is dismissed in such cases. I had one case dismissed by the judge, no fine, and I got a letter from the court saying so. Years later it shows up on my record as unpaid. What a mess. Got it cleared up in part because the cop that gave me the ticket was transferred due to complaints and suggestions of criminal activity while on duty. They did set it straight but still what a mess. Get a letter, keep it forever.

I hate asking for a reduction when I'm innocent but the court does not want people thinking they have a right to a hearing or that hearings could result in Not Guilty. So the court likes it if you comply, bow, say they were right, you were wrong, even more so when you are innocent. It is a way to save money but I've always felt the price was too high.

It would be better if we all took questionable cases to court as it would expose the falsehood of the safety claim. It's a tax grab and that will be shown when it stops generating revenue.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Were you speeding? Is the speed you were caught at accurate?

If you answer YES to one or both of these, why do you feel you do not have to comply with posted limits?

If it was "substantial", he must really have been moving.

Grizz

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

If it was "substantial", he must really have been moving.

Grizz

And if that's the case I have no sympathy whatsoever.

[Bub]

My wife was going 57 in a 50 zone. The ticket was $120, if I remember correctly. I thought that was substantial. So it's all relative.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by JrProspector

snip
and there is a vehicle about 1-2 seconds ahead of me in the same lane or the lane to my right (cannot tell).
snip!

AFAIK, if there are 2 vehicles in the photo there is no way to tell which one was speeding, and when questioned results in an automatic withdrawal of charges (or dismissal if they make you go to court).
(They may make you go to court just so the Officer can collect their 4 hrs (or more) @OT rate, for appearing on their day off, and the Prosecutor gets to bill for a case handled).

AFAIK, the standard Police procedure in cases of multiple vehicles in the photo is to just send tickets to both, as often one or both will just pay without questioning the validity of evidence.

If you go to court you can often negotiate a reduced fine (before court is in session) if you plead guilty to a reduced charge, as both the Officer and the Prosecutor will still get paid in full, and the Prosecutor will record it in their 'win' stats. In this case the Officer and you both get to leave before court convenes, but the Officer still gets their 4 hrs OT.
(Or the Officer may fail to show up.)

It is after all the 'just-us' system.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by qwert

AFAIK, if there are 2 vehicles in the photo there is no way to tell which one was speeding, and when questioned results in an automatic withdrawal of charges (or dismissal if they make you go to court).
(They may make you go to court just so the Officer can collect their 4 hrs (or more) @OT rate, for appearing on their day off, and the Prosecutor gets to bill for a case handled).

AFAIK, the standard Police procedure in cases of multiple vehicles in the photo is to just send tickets to both, as often one or both will just pay without questioning the validity of evidence.

If you go to court you can often negotiate a reduced fine (before court is in session) if you plead guilty to a reduced charge, as both the Officer and the Prosecutor will still get paid in full, and the Prosecutor will record it in their 'win' stats. In this case the Officer and you both get to leave before court convenes, but the Officer still gets their 4 hrs OT.
(Or the Officer may fail to show up.)

It is after all the 'just-us' system.

Good Luck, YMMV.

I got a photo radar ticket years ago and went downtown to see the full picture blown out to see if there was another vehicle...I suggest you start with that...

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Jet

A friend of mine makes a habit of getting speeding tickets, then whining about as he drives for his job, how he needs to get out of em. He does it a lot, and I won't get in a car with him.

He doesn't bother asking for a reduction prior to it. He just goes straight for the court case. If the cop booking him asks if he's gonna plead it, he says no, then goes to court, cos the cop scheduled it for a day he was away. A good chunk of the time when he turns up anyway, the cop doesn't and he gets away with it. Otherwise he pleads for a reduced speed and generally gets it. He says going in and asking for a reduction, takes more time than just going to court.

Break laws, learn how to beat the system, repeat. Your friend needs a kick in the ass. The 'legal' system needs some reform too. Stiffer penalties, demerits, vehicle seizure for ja's like him.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by Jet

A good chunk of the time when he turns up anyway, the cop doesn't and he gets away with it. Otherwise he pleads for a reduced speed and generally gets it. He says going in and asking for a reduction, takes more time than just going to court.

I seriously can't see a cop failing to appear if you have gone as far as a trial. Maybe it happened a few times, but to think its common is ridiculous.

While I don't know for sure, I would imagine their boss would krap all over them for wasting a judges and crown prosecutors time.

I can tell the OP a few things. If you decide to go and speak with the 1st appearance crown prosecutor, count on waiting a long time. You could be out in twenty minutes, but more likely it will take 5 hours.

It's not going to go like you think it will. These guys have heard every sob story under the sun. Some of them are straight up a-holes. Others are getting there from dealing with morons all day. Be professional and direct. You might get lucky and they will chop it in half. You better be able to answer this question "Why should we reduce the fine" - with a dang good answer.

After my experiences with 1st appearance. I would never again deal with them. Middle aged white guys don't get much sympathy from them. If you are going to fight it, just mail in your plea and start your prep. If you plan on going before a judge and actually speaking, you better be damn sure you can communicate well. It doesn't matter if the machine wasn't calibrated for fifteen years unless you know how to introduce that into the trail and get the judge to toss the ticket because of it. Neither the crown or the judge will let you stammer on about calibration records if a) you don't know anything about calibration records b) you don't know how the law applies to calibration records.

I suppose your alternative is to plead not guilty. Put on your best suit and bring your mama. Sit down at your trial and say "Prove me guilty"... because that's your right. I wish more guys did that. Yea you will be guilty, but the verdict will come after wasting thousands of dollars of tax money. Hopefully causing a bit of a rethink on this revenue ranger mentality.

[Mossyoak]

OP - you should fight every single photo radar ticket you ever receive.
At a minimum, you will have it reduced and/or ideally removed.
In many cases you can find a way out of this ridiculous tax, many like to call law enforcement.

The easiest is asking when the machine was last calibrated... google will give you many other examples of reasonable asks.

You'll notice many people on here have varying opinions on this matter.
Best to keep it to yourself or use google search- the feedback isn't always positive or practical on here in regard to this kinda thing.
For example - some will say they never ever break the law in one thread but then say they will never wear a helmet on an ATV even now that it's the law....

Show up, be polite and ask for a reduction - it always works if you have the time.

[catnthehat]

Really?
The last photo radar ticket I had was because I forgot to drop my speed from 60 to 50 in a very well marked area where I gave driven to work fir tgekadt 10 years at least - it is alongside a high school
As soon as I saw the light flash I looked at the speedo and realized I had forgotten to slow down.
How the heck do you take THAT to court with a clear conscience??
Cat

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Break laws, learn how to beat the system, repeat. Your friend needs a kick in the ass. The 'legal' system needs some reform too. Stiffer penalties, demerits, vehicle seizure for ja's like him.

So? Is it ok when cops break the law, hide behind the big blue wall - and beat the system?

Courts are there for a reason - everyone gets their day in court, innocent until proven guilty?

Ever get the full blast of a photo radar buggy when coming the other direction? It's blinding - and downright dangerous to oncoming drivers.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

So? Is it ok when cops break the law, hide behind the big blue wall - and beat the system?
Courts are there for a reason - everyone gets their day in court, innocent until proven guilty?
Ever get the full blast of a photo radar buggy when coming the other direction? It's blinding - and downright dangerous to oncoming drivers.

I never am in this situation, why do you suppose that is?

I have never had to go to court because I was driving the speed limit. Try it sometime.

[Countryguy]

I wish they would hire more police and have less photo radar so everyone that thinks speeding is a joke can loose demerits and one day their license before they kill someone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Countryguy

I wish they would hire more police and have less photo radar so everyone that thinks speeding is a joke can loose demerits and one day their license before they kill someone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you know of someone who thinks excessive speeding is a joke?

This subject has been beat to death already. No reasonable person is ok with excessive speeding. But if you think going 112 on a wide, rural secondary hwy in good driving conditions is cause for concern

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by Countryguy

I wish they would hire more police and have less photo radar so everyone that thinks speeding is a joke can loose demerits and one day their license before they kill someone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd like to see more.enforcement towards the retards who drive slow in the left lane and back up traffic. Driving this Hill everyday I see alot of people who drive 80km/hr in the left lane because they are turning left 4 intersections after you get to the top. This causes frustration, road rage, and speeding.

[amosfella]

As I see it, the OP has broken the letter of the law, but not the equity of the law...

Where is an actual injured party?? Or is the only injured party the Crown, and it's only injury is that it's arbitrary rules have been broken??

Many speed limits in Lethbridge are at least 20 KM/H too low.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

All I said is stop breaking laws. Everyone that gets a ticket gets it for a reason. Real simple to figure out, stop speeding. Wether you agree with it or not, the law is there.

And for self righteousness- you are right, more like us law abiding drivers would mean less problems on the roads.
I have lived clean my entire life, have passed it on to my children who will pass it on to theirs. Your problem with that is not mine.

Im not advocating breaking a law. Im not advocating lying to a judge. One of my points is people harp about speeding being a public safety problem when it is not. Another point is you are whitewashing an underhanded money grab.

I am happy to hear you live a clean life, I hope your children continue that tradition.

[JrProspector]

Guys, just to clarify I am by no means racing around the city getting a plethora of tickets, nor am I whining about my photo ticket, I am simply asking what may or may not work in the court which I have a right to be in.

My last speeding ticket was many many years ago when I was 16.
As some of you may know when riding a motorcycle you have quite a bit of potential at the fate of your wrist and sometimes genuinely do not realize your speed.

I am fully aware that I may have been in the wrong.
However, some of you may also share the same frustration of how many of these speed traps have been set up in what I would consider chincy places.

Such as when going down a steep hill, or in a merging lane roadway where the limit is 60 or 70, but merges into traffic going 100.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Im not advocating breaking a law. Im not advocating lying to a judge. One of my points is people harp about speeding being a public safety problem when it is not. Another point is you are whitewashing an underhanded money grab.

I am happy to hear you live a clean life, I hope your children continue that tradition.

You can't say speeding is not a public safety concern. A hell of a lot of people can't drive safely at or even under the speed limit because they don't care, haven't learned, drive stupid or distracted, or just buck the system.
I'm not whitewashing, I am law abiding.

And thank you. I hope so too.

[catnthehat]

This thread has gone the very same as any other thread about speeding tickets
Cops break the law, speeding tickets are nothing but revenue getters and the speed limits are too low and people should challenge every ticket because they can be beaten .
After that it deteriorates into members insulting other members ,
Cat