Poor Teachers!

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by drhu22

Let me guess... you were the kid shooting spit wads.

What grade do you teach and what do we pay you per year?

[saskbooknut]

I taught Firearm Safety/Hunter Safety for many years. You could not pay me enough to teach teenagers full time. The good students are a treat, and the misbehaving whiners are to be endured.
I am sure you have your good teachers, a few stellar teachers and a few duds.
Seems like that in any profession.
Surely, I have seen more than my share of duds in the tradesmen I have hired. And even there, I will happily provide references for the stellar tradesmen of my acquaintance. I have many friends who are teachers. I believe they earned their salary and respect.
On this board we could spare a thought for how hard it is for teachers to get time off in hunting season. The teacher sportsman may have lots of time for fishing or clay target games, hunting not so much.
Bashing the other guy, most any other, seems like a well developed sport.

[RZR]

Teachers aren't as smart as one thinks.

[Jadham]

Just wanted to say hats off to all the teachers and educators on this board.

[Kim473]

I will let this speak for it's self.

COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT
BETWEEN
BOARD OF TRUSTEES
EDMONTON SCHOOL DISTRICT NO. 7
AND
THE ALBERTA TEACHERS’ ASSOCIATION
SEPTEMBER 1,2012 TO AUGUST 31, 2016

https://www.epsb.ca/media/epsb/ourdi..._2012-2016.pdf

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Jadham

Just wanted to say hats off to all the teachers and educators on this board.

Me too!

[hal53]

Does anyone else find it strange that a thread essentially bashing a profession that helps to shape our future can go on for 3 pages and if anything is said about a "profession" that is ruining things for our future generations it is shut down?

[pikergolf]

My Grandpa, rest his soul, always told me to beware of people that tear others down to make themselves look better.

[elkhunter11]

Wages are generally based on what the market will bear. That is usually determined by the skills required, or by the working conditions, or by the job location, or by a combination of those factors. When I started my career in the oilsands over 35 years ago, my aunt who is a teacher was outraged that I was making more than she was. She thought that it was unfair that she went to university, and had 25 years experience, and made less than I did. I asked her how she felt about working outside at -40, and she replied that she wouldn't like that. I asked her how she felt about working at +40, and she replied that people shouldn't have to do that. I asked her how she felt about working twelve hour night shifts for two or three months at a time, and once again, she told me that she wouldn't do that. I asked her how she felt about working 60 to 160 hours of overtime per month, and once again she replied that she wouldn't do that. I asked he how she felt about being around toxic gases that could kill a person, or flammable hydrocarbons that very easily catch fire or explode, and she didn't like that idea either. I then explained to her that she was making less money than I was because she worked in a nice temperature controlled school, she only worked days, and she had weekends and summers off as well as Christmas and spring breaks. I explained that she wasn't climbing 150 foot ladders every day and she wasn't under constant threat from toxic gases or explosions or fires. I explained to her that she wasn't breathing in hydrocarbons and other chemicals, some of which haven't even been identified every day. In the end, she still resented that she made less than I did, but she also admitted that she much preferred her job to mine.

Some people will mention the stresses that teachers endure dealing with children or teens, but other people also endure similar stresses. I have dealt with employees with drug abuse or alcohol abuse issues, people that suffered from depression, or had serious family issues, and I have dealt with the suicides of employees. On an every day basis I dealt with employees personal problems, as well as with pressure from upper management to cut costs, to do things faster,or to implement unpopular policies
In short, we all face stresses, of one sort or another, just because you are a teacher, or a lawyer, or a tradesman, or an engineer, does not necessarily make your job more stressful, or more difficult. Some jobs are more physically demanding, some are more mentally demanding, but all occupations involve both good and bad things, so don't bother trying to make it sound like you work harder than everyone else or deserve more pay than anyone else. Many professions involve work preparation at home, or while traveling to and from work, or after hours at the work site, so teachers are far from unique in that area.
Our country and our province are in a tough economic situation, many people have taken cut backs, or have lost their job entirely, so this isn't the time to demand more compensation because you supposedly work harder or work more hours than people in other occupations.

[teledogs]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

My Grandpa, rest his soul, always told me to beware of people that tear others down to make themselves look better.

Wise words.

Thanks to the educators.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

My Grandpa, rest his soul, always told me to beware of people that tear others down to make themselves look better.

Your grandpa was a wise man.

words to adhere to.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by roper1

In 30 years as a principal, how many teachers did you terminate?

The principal can only make a recommendation to the superintendent to terminate ...so none. About four recommendations for termination of "tenured" teachers. Probably a dozen that never got contract renewals after their first year ... or even finished that first year after "the talk".

[catnthehat]

I do not ow a single tradesman that would do the amount of unpaid overtime watched my wife did for over 30 years.
She was a high school English teacher, and a dammed good one.
marking homework every night (about 2 1/2 hour or more), weekends in lesson plans, staff meetings, unpaid extras like parent teacher interviews, helping students after school, the list goes on.
She did it because she was dedicated, not because it was a high paying job.
Cat

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by hal53

Does anyone else find it strange that a thread essentially bashing a profession that helps to shape our future can go on for 3 pages and if anything is said about a "profession" that is ruining things for our future generations it is shut down?

Hal, its not often that we don't debate the topic, but I'm pretty sure we're on the same page with this.

Not to belittle anyone but I think you brought up one important fact, teaching is a profession. Most folks in a profession make it their life's work and stay their until they retire at 65 plus. Another member brought up paramedics. They are important in their own way to society too, but it is not a profession, but rather a job they do for a while. Few stay in that field for their whole working career, I see very few 50+ year olds doing that job. I'm not belittling it, but a profession and a job are two different things. A profession is generally held to require at least a university degree.

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[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by RZR

Teachers aren't as smart as one thinks.

And not as smart as they claim to be.

Grizz

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by avb3

Where are you getting the info on paramedics? The ALIS site says differently, with the average being $48K

http://occinfo.alis.alberta.ca/occin...e.html?id=3234

http://www.nait.ca/program_home_76727.htm

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by RZR

Teachers aren't as smart as one thinks.

From inane comments like this it is obvious some actually did have poor teachers in school...or simply failed to apply themselves...which is it RZR?

[chad66]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I was a teacher for 32 years (30 of them I held designation of Principal). Wondering about what the job is like ... ask me questions and you'll get honest answers.

I believe teachers who are fast tracked into Principalships do little to help the problem with bad teachers or the profession of teaching. This is still an ongoing problem whereby inexperienced teachers (almost always men) are put in charge of a school. They do not have the instructional leadership experience necessary to guide the professional and non professional staff they supervise. Period.

Having a deep understanding of even a single curriculum doesn't occur in a year or two in the classroom. Until a teacher can prove they have this ability, they have no business in a leadership role.

Chad

[hal53]

Originally Posted by chad66

I believe teachers who are fast tracked into Principalships do little to help the problem with bad teachers or the profession of teaching. This is still an ongoing problem whereby inexperienced teachers (almost always men) are put in charge of a school. They do not have the instructional leadership experience necessary to guide the professional and non professional staff they supervise. Period.

Having a deep understanding of even a single curriculum doesn't occur in a year or two in the classroom. Until a teacher can prove they have this ability, they have no business in a leadership role.

Chad

As in any profession, some are ready for advancement prior to others...

[chad66]

Originally Posted by hal53

As in any profession, some are ready for advancement prior to others...

I don't think you understand what an instructional leader is. Many jurisdictions have the admin handbook online.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by chad66

I don't think you understand what an instructional leader is. Many jurisdictions have the admin handbook online.

I don't think you understood my post....but that's for another thread...

[SBE2]

Originally Posted by JustMe

Hal, its not often that we don't debate the topic, but I'm pretty sure we're on the same page with this.

Not to belittle anyone but I think you brought up one important fact, teaching is a profession. Most folks in a profession make it their life's work and stay their until they retire at 65 plus. Another member brought up paramedics. They are important in their own way to society too, but it is not a profession, but rather a job they do for a while. Few stay in that field for their whole working career, I see very few 50+ year olds doing that job. I'm not belittling it, but a profession and a job are two different things. A profession is generally held to require at least a university degree.

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Wow, the sense of arrogance is pretty obvious here. Couple things to point out, and I don't work in either profession. The reason you likely don't see a lot of paramedics over 50 is the physical toll it takes on the body and the continuing of which would likely lead to injury. Most teachers biggest physical exertion is a medium paced walk, you can keep that up into your 70's pretty easily. So, and this makes me want to throw up, in your words, "a profession and a job are two different things. A profession is generally held to require at least a university degree." WOW! When I read most of your posts I come away thinking this guy must be a total clown, I am very appreciative of you for confirming my suspicions. Carry on with your head up your azz and your nose held high sir.

[JustMe]

Originally Posted by SBE2

Wow, the sense of arrogance is pretty obvious here. Couple things to point out, and I don't work in either profession. The reason you likely don't see a lot of paramedics over 50 is the physical toll it takes on the body and the continuing of which would likely lead to injury. Most teachers biggest physical exertion is a medium paced walk, you can keep that up into your 70's pretty easily. So, and this makes me want to throw up, in your words, "a profession and a job are two different things. A profession is generally held to require at least a university degree." WOW! When I read most of your posts I come away thinking this guy must be a total clown, I am very appreciative of you for confirming my suspicions. Carry on with your head up your azz and your nose held high sir.

And then, instead of adding anything to the debate, you appear to have no other argument than name calling and trying to belittle anyone who doesn't agree with a redneck point of view. You sir, and your thought processes, are one if the reasons so many of these threads get shut down. Oh and BTW, as stated earlier, I am not a teacher nor do I hold a university degree. I do however see that education is one of the most important facets of any civilized society.....

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[lilsundance]

I think enough is enough. This topic comes around every time a contract is up for negotiation.