Arctic Grayling Limit 0

[RisingRainbows]

Just took a look at the 2015 fishing regs and noticed there is now a 0 limit on arctic grayling province wide.

The bigger destruction of habitat problem is still there but this can't hurt.

[Xiph0id]

Agreed, but I don't think it will help much.

Not a lot of people keep grayling IMO.

Will help some but will only be a very small percentage of whats needed.

[FlyTheory]

It will definitely make a difference, I was very happy to see that on the new regs.

[McLeod]

In 20 years all flowing waters in Alberta will be C and R..

[ROA]

I live in grayling country. I don't know of one person that keeps grayling. I do however know of a half dozen creeks that no longer have many grayling in them from logging.

The new regulations are nice step but won't do much around here.

[Okotokian]

So we're all good with this? Industry destroys habitat so the answer is tag fishermen for a 0 limit????? That's going to fix the problem??? GET INDUSTRY AWAY FROM THE HEADWATERS INSTEAD OF LETTING THEM LOG EVEN CLOSER.

[thumper]

Yup, so the government is like:
"Grayling in trouble, institute a 0 limit on them. There, fixed that problem"

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

So we're all good with this? Industry destroys habitat so the answer is tag fishermen for a 0 limit????? That's going to fix the problem??? GET INDUSTRY AWAY FROM THE HEADWATERS INSTEAD OF LETTING THEM LOG EVEN CLOSER.

Oki, you know that makes entirely too much sense!

[Supergrit]

Won't make a difference creeks were I am no one fishes them there is small grayling if at all. Years ago I heard they all had great fish. Now when I go along bigger rivers I can't even have fish lunch while camping what a joke.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by McLeod

In 20 years all flowing waters in Alberta will be C and R..

This idea was proposed 20 years ago.

The current walleye management program was also proposed about 25 years ago.

This was when the late Dr. Paetz and the late Ernie Stenton were running the show.

[Gerv]

many of the rivers and creeks in this area are being drawn from very heavily by oil and gas companys. I'm not a radical environmentalist, i work in the industry, and i dont want to see them shut down. I only wish to see the resource developed in a responsible manner. i just can't understand how the regulators can think that drawing from these flowing waters during the winter, when they are covered with ice, and moving extremely limited volumes of water, could possibly be a responsible policy. Many people consider the little smokey river to be one of Alberta's finest grayling and bull trout fisheries. It is now being pillaged for fresh water fracs. We as anglers need to demand accountability from the Alberta Energy Regulator. Their board chairman, Gerry Protti, was an executive officer of Encana for fifteen years, and was the founding president of the CAPP. I fear we have left the fox in charge of the hen house.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Gerv

many of the rivers and creeks in this area are being drawn from very heavily by oil and gas companys. I'm not a radical environmentalist, i work in the industry, and i dont want to see them shut down. I only wish to see the resource developed in a responsible manner. i just can't understand how the regulators can think that drawing from these flowing waters during the winter, when they are covered with ice, and moving extremely limited volumes of water, could possibly be a responsible policy. Many people consider the little smokey river to be one of Alberta's finest grayling and bull trout fisheries. It is now being pillaged for fresh water fracs. We as anglers need to demand accountability from the Alberta Energy Regulator. Their board chairman, Gerry Protti, was an executive officer of Encana for fifteen years, and was the founding president of the CAPP. I fear we have left the fox in charge of the hen house.

Gerv:

Are you saying that beaver dams and other pools in the Smokey River are being sucked dry for fracing? The very place where our fish lay low for the winter?

Please tell me that is not true, and you are yanking our chains for B.S. Friday.

Otherwise, Do you have substantive evidence this activity is going on?

Show your cards. You may have created a major news story.

[spinN'flyfish]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

So we're all good with this? Industry destroys habitat so the answer is tag fishermen for a 0 limit????? That's going to fix the problem??? GET INDUSTRY AWAY FROM THE HEADWATERS INSTEAD OF LETTING THEM LOG EVEN CLOSER.

I totally agree. Not many fisherman keep 'em, but keepin two ain't gonna hurt as much as the industry

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

So we're all good with this? Industry destroys habitat so the answer is tag fishermen for a 0 limit????? That's going to fix the problem??? GET INDUSTRY AWAY FROM THE HEADWATERS INSTEAD OF LETTING THEM LOG EVEN CLOSER.

Talk to your beloved PC's about it Oki.

Sad situation.

[Gerv]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Gerv:

Are you saying that beaver dams and other pools in the Smokey River are being sucked dry for fracing? The very place where our fish lay low for the winter?

Please tell me that is not true, and you are yanking our chains for B.S. Friday.

Otherwise, Do you have substantive evidence this activity is going on?

Show your cards. You may have created a major news story.

I wish i was just yanking your chain greylynx. i do have a certain amount of evidence, and i will work on putting it together for you and anyone else who is interested. Many of the pools that arent being directly pulled from will likely still hold a certain amount of water, but i fear that without reasonable flow between these pools the oxygen and food in the pools will likely be used up before flow rates increase again in the spring. I am not a fisheries biologist, and i will be the first to admit that my knowledge in the field is limited. But after spending a considerable amount of time reviewing the numbers, and observing the operations in the field, i have come to the conclusion that the current policies are not sustainable. I will work on getting the numbers straight as i have no interest in putting out any information that im not certain to be correct. I am encouraged by your interest. Cheers

[ROA]

I'm with Gerv, the oil companys have quite often been pulling fresh water from creeks for many years, the thing is now with the fracs the amount of water needed is huge. One frac around here can use 20,000,000L of water if I remember correctly. Im not saying all of this is coming from creeks in the winter, but some no doubt does.

In the summer around fox creek you will see them pulling this amount of water out of creeks and rivers. You see diesel pumps with hoses strung out to gigantic portable "swimming pools" on the well site. Hauling this water by truck is expensive, pumping it from a nearby creek is cheap.

Some company's will try to use produced water (the stuff that comes out of the ground with the oil) for the majority of the frac water, if it is the cheapest alternative. In the end cheapest always wins.

I would love to see them put an end to drawing fresh water from the creeks, especially in the winter. 100% ban would be a nice place to start.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Gerv

I wish i was just yanking your chain greylynx. i do have a certain amount of evidence, and i will work on putting it together for you and anyone else who is interested. Many of the pools that arent being directly pulled from will likely still hold a certain amount of water, but i fear that without reasonable flow between these pools the oxygen and food in the pools will likely be used up before flow rates increase again in the spring. I am not a fisheries biologist, and i will be the first to admit that my knowledge in the field is limited. But after spending a considerable amount of time reviewing the numbers, and observing the operations in the field, i have come to the conclusion that the current policies are not sustainable. I will work on getting the numbers straight as i have no interest in putting out any information that im not certain to be correct. I am encouraged by your interest. Cheers

The best person to turn any information over is with our own Rob Miskosky.
He has the means to validate your posting. As much as I hope it is not true.
But......

Please contact our AO Rob. He will know what to do.

Thanks Gerv.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by ROA

I'm with Gerv, the oil companys have quite often been pulling fresh water from creeks for many years, the thing is now with the fracs the amount of water needed is huge. One frac around here can use 20,000,000L of water if I remember correctly. Im not saying all of this is coming from creeks in the winter, but some no doubt does.

In the summer around fox creek you will see them pulling this amount of water out of creeks and rivers. You see diesel pumps with hoses strung out to gigantic portable "swimming pools" on the well site. Hauling this water by truck is expensive, pumping it from a nearby creek is cheap.

Some company's will try to use produced water (the stuff that comes out of the ground with the oil) for the majority of the frac water, if it is the cheapest alternative. In the end cheapest always wins.


I would love to see them put an end to drawing fresh water from the creeks, especially in the winter. 100% ban would be a nice place to start.

So true.

Edit: Oh and the Grayling....good to hear the new reg. Hope it helps?

[WillyOneStyle]

So we don't like the changes the Harper government made to the fisheries act? That didn't take long. Are we saying that encroaching on habitat might have a negative affect fish of cultural or economic value? Are we sure that these oil and logging companies are not just installing culvert projects for agricultural purposes? Why wouldn't DFO biologists issue stop work orders? Ya want to know what happened to the grayling, Alberta, look in the mirror.

Catch and release for Grayling is a good thing.

[Supergrit]

The run off destroys the creeks less trees on hills and more roads in the trees. It rains the creeks flow high and muddy it's stops raining they become a trickle. Trees stop this up down cycle to more clean even flow. Around whitecourt zero catch limits won't make a difference one bit in the creeks. Barley anyone fishes them any ways and I believe the size limit was around 12 inches not very much of those around.

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by McLeod

In 20 years all flowing waters in Alberta will be C and R..

I don't see a problem with this

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by greylynx

This idea was proposed 20 years ago.

The current walleye management program was also proposed about 25 years ago.

This was when the late Dr. Paetz and the late Ernie Stenton were running the show.

That was more like 40 years ago

[Bhflyfisher]

Originally Posted by Chief16

I don't see a problem with this

I dont see a problem with stunting fisheries either. Makes it easier to catch the little fish.

[recce43]

Originally Posted by Chief16

I don't see a problem with this

some people like to eat one fish in awile from a river you know wild fish not that farm fish crap in the grocery store ..

[Chief16]

Originally Posted by Bhflyfisher

I dont see a problem with stunting fisheries either. Makes it easier to catch the little fish.

That's why wab is stunted right? And the ram?

[7magtime]

I saw a news story last night on the FRAC'ing in Fox Creek causing higher than normal frequency of earthquakes/tremor's in that area recently. No mention of water use but where there's smoke there is usually fire especially when it comes to oil companies finding the cheap alternative. Hopefully some of the ways they do business are now brought to light......

[Bhflyfisher]

Originally Posted by Chief16

That's why wab is stunted right? And the ram?

You have two prime examples, one of which you have 0 experience with, the other an exception. These things are cyclical, the Ram, not so much. Mostly due to the limiting factor of wintering water. Obviously you've never witnessed the ram in the fall, because you'd be quick to realize theres about 3 pools that hold all the fish. The rest, dont survive in a canyon that is -30c throughout its entire winter, the sun never hits it. Wab is currently "dead"/dying as pike sizes are on the rapid decline while more smaller pike are showing up on a regular basis (Ya catch and release is really working) while the Ram is simply, low productivity, minuscule amounts of wintering water, and fish that mature at a very very old age. The amount of fish that die every year just on hooking mortality is a lot higher than you might think. (IE the one I hooked in the eye, any idea on how long it takes to grow a 16" fish in there?) Its at its peak, it will never get better.

[italk2u]

Originally Posted by 7magtime

I saw a news story last night on the FRAC'ing in Fox Creek causing higher than normal frequency of earthquakes/tremor's in that area recently. No mention of water use but where there's smoke there is usually fire especially when it comes to oil companies finding the cheap alternative. Hopefully some of the ways they do business are now brought to light......

Fox Creek isn't the only area where fraccing is causing increased seismic activity.
Read this:
http://www.accuweather.com/en/featur...ction/44133757

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by italk2u

Fox Creek isn't the only area where fraccing is causing increased seismic activity.
Read this:
http://www.accuweather.com/en/featur...ction/44133757

Good read and information, thanks for the link. The news article I watched didn't mention if there was any property damage around the Fox Creek area. I wonder how long it will be before there is if heavy FRAC'ing continues.....