Bedding a wooden stock

[gunluvr]

Can someone point me to a comprehensive step-by-step for glass bedding a wooden stock, particularly a Rem 700 CDL? The stuff on U Tube is sketchy.

[double gun]

Did you read the instructions that came with the bedding kit?

[gunluvr]

Haven't bought a bedding kit. Is that the best way to go?

[Dean2]

http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

One of the better and more complete articles. Personally I am not a fan of doing both pillars and bedding, one or the other is sufficient. In synthetic the pillars are faster and easier, though I still bed the majority of my synthetic stocks too. From personal experience I prefer bedded with Devcon 10110 in Walnut stocks. I believe it stabilises the action and wood better.

[colroggal]

Check out website terminal ballistics research. 3 part video is very in depth. There is also a video on stabilizing a synthetic stock. Great site.

Colin

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dean2

http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

One of the better and more complete articles. Personally I am not a fan of doing both pillars and bedding, one or the other is sufficient. In synthetic the pillars are faster and easier, though I still bed the majority of my synthetic stocks too. From personal experience I prefer bedded with Devcon 10110 in Walnut stocks. I believe it stabilises the action and wood better.

They serve two completely different purposes. One creates a stress free platform and the other prevents stock compression.

[Dean2]

Chuck

I agree completely. It is why I like Devcon Bedding, it gives me both the stress free bedding and completely stops any stock compression because it is so hard. It can actually be drilled and tapped and when used in industrial applications it is also machinable like steel.

If a fellow used Marine Tex, JB Weld or one of the other softer bedding compounds that don't resist compression and shrinkage as well, then the pillars would be beneficial in addition to bedding the rifle.

[Skytop B]

Without pillars you will still compress your stock and induce stress into the action regardless of what bedding compound is used.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Chuck

I agree completely. It is why I like Devcon Bedding, it gives me both the stress free bedding and completely stops any stock compression because it is so hard. It can actually be drilled and tapped and when used in industrial applications it is also machinable like steel.

If a fellow used Marine Tex, JB Weld or one of the other softer bedding compounds that don't resist compression and shrinkage as well, then the pillars would be beneficial in addition to bedding the rifle.

If you are pouring pillars then yes.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Skytop B

Without pillars you will still compress your stock and induce stress into the action regardless of what bedding compound is used.

You are entitled to your opinion but you are incorrect. The quote below is excerpts from MacMillan's website and they invented pillar bedding with aluminium inserts.

https://www.mcmillanusa.com/pillar-b...rticle-part-i/

Pillar Bedding Article – Part I

In the firearms industry, it seems there is always a “trend” that is accepted as state-of-the-art, at least until something else comes along to replace it. Right now aluminum bedding blocks seem to be the trend. I recently posted our views on the ABB, so I won’t go into that now, but there is a related trend that I think needs addressing—pillar bedding or bedding using aluminum pillars.

First, a bit of history is in order. When wood stocks ruled the world, few things could improve the accuracy of a rifle as much as glass bedding. Hardly any factory guns came bedded and most shot barely acceptable. In general, glass bedding enhanced accuracy, as well as increased the dependability by limiting the effects of humidity and weather, which plays havoc with point of impact (POI). By using an epoxy-based product reinforced with fiberglass (thus the term glass bedding) you could form a superior mating surface between the stock and the receiver. By reducing or eliminating any stresses caused by poorly matched surfaces, it allowed the rifle to shoot more consistently.

In the benchrest community, shooters found that by torqueing both guard screws with a torque wrench they could actually tune the way the gun would shoot. Shooters were constantly checking the torque between matches and even between groups. Most found that the more they shot their rifle, the more the amount of torque would decrease. It was reasoned that the stocks must be compressing due to the pressure and stress associated with shooting. As a result, they drilled out the holes around the guard screws to the next larger size (usually from 5/16 to 3/8 or 1/2 inch).Bedding the action would allow these larger holes to fill with bedding material. After removing the screws (of course, they waxed them first), they would then drill out the screw hole to 5/16”for some clearance, but that would in effect, leave a pillar of 1/16 to 3/16” wall thickness of bedding material. The bedding material was dense and rigid so it made a nice pillar that would keep the stock from compressing under the pressure of 40-60 lbs torque, plus the stress of firing the rifle.

Remember the front screw is always near the recoil lug (in some actions it screws into it) so having as much material intact is important. Though pillars give the stock compressive strength, they don’t offer much in the way of shear strength, which is what’s needed around the recoil lug. One last item on pillar bedding, I am often asked by customers who would like to bed their own stock but lack the confidence to try pillar bedding, “Do I need pillars?” Because of the construction techniques and materials we use in making our stocks, it is not necessary to use pillars. With the exception of benchrest stocks, which are always glued in and use a lighter fill in the action area than all of stocks, pillars are unnecessary.

Tests have proven that the materials we use to fill the action area of our stocks have less than one percent compression at 100 lb psi. What that means is that there is no way you are going to be able to torque your guards screws tight enough to compress the material under the action. Why do we put them in every bedding job we do when installing our stocks? Because it’s state-of-the-art. It’s what has become the excepted way to do things. It’s not a fad. It is a valuable technique that is necessary when bedding stocks that use a different method of construction (which almost all other synthetic manufacturers do). It’s just that with ours, it is not really necessary.

Like a McMillan Stock, Devcon is NOT compressible, so as long as you have drilled out the stock bolt holes, filled them with Devcon and then relieved them a little when set, you effectively have pillars made of Devcon. Even without doing that, Devcon is so hard that compressing the stock under the full action would take a tremendous amount of torque and I doubt the screws would take the pressure.

[Skytop B]

Fair enough, personally I think it much simpler just to glue the pillars in before bedding the action. Last couple I did I used the Devcon Ti just cause I couldn't find any 1010, liked the results.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Dean2

The quote below is excerpts from MacMillan's website and they invented pillar bedding with aluminium inserts.

They invented pillars? So that isn't a pillar in the old M96 military stock?

ARG

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

They invented pillars? So that isn't a pillar in the old M96 military stock?

ARG

Actually, pillars have been around since the days of Matchlocks, and were used on some of the gun carriages from the 1600s. I said they invented pillar bedding using "Aluminium" inserts, and to be totally accurate it was "pre-cut Aluminium" pillar process that they developed.

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

jb weld works just as good and is cheaper

[REDLINE]

I have a Boyds stock on the way for my Savage, is Devcon easily available in Edmonton or will a bedding kit do the same job?

[Dean2]

Acklands and most industrial supply place carry it. I order mine from the states as it save quite a bit as Acklands is over $106 for the 1 LB tub, smallest it comes in, while Allspec is $42 and MSC is only $59. It pays to check the Canadian mail order price first, Travers link below, however. Last time it was cheaper buying it local, when you figured exchange and mailing costs. (Suggest to always use USPS when shipping from the states. Avoids the ripoff surcharges by UPS and fedex.)

http://www.all-spec.com/products/10110.html

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...60059&fromRR=Y

http://www.traverscanada.com/product...catalog=130220

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Acklands and most industrial supply place carry it. I order mine from the states as it save quite a bit as Acklands is over $106 for the 1 LB tub, smallest it comes in, while Allspec is $42 and MSC is only $59. It pays to check the Canadian mail order price first, Travers link below, however. Last time it was cheaper buying it local, when you figured exchange and mailing costs. (Suggest to always use USPS when shipping from the states. Avoids the ripoff surcharges by UPS and fedex.)

http://www.all-spec.com/products/10110.html

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...60059&fromRR=Y

http://www.traverscanada.com/product...catalog=130220

I went to Greg Distributors to purchase Devcon at the last price quote of ~$46 but they did a price increase to ~$57, so I just added it to a current Brownells order @ US$36.99 (+exchange +USPS postage @ ~2.50/lb) total cost Ca$45.33/lb delivered. Most Canadian suppliers act like we do not have any alternatives, Acklands is just OTL.

If you purchase from a high price Canadian supplier the stock is probably a lot older as it sits on the shelf longer waiting for a desperate buyer who needs it NOW. Epoxy does have a 'best before date'.

Good Luck, YMMV

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by qwert

I went to Greg Distributors to purchase Devcon at the last price quote of ~$46 but they did a price increase to ~$57, so I just added it to a current Brownells order @ US$36.99 (+exchange +USPS postage @ ~2.50/lb) total cost Ca$45.33/lb delivered. Most Canadian suppliers act like we do not have any alternatives, Acklands is just OTL.

Good Luck, YMMV

Hell of a good deal from Brownells. Never even checked them for price despite buying lots of stuff from them. Thanks for the tip.

[REDLINE]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Acklands and most industrial supply place carry it. I order mine from the states as it save quite a bit as Acklands is over $106 for the 1 LB tub, smallest it comes in, while Allspec is $42 and MSC is only $59. It pays to check the Canadian mail order price first, Travers link below, however. Last time it was cheaper buying it local, when you figured exchange and mailing costs. (Suggest to always use USPS when shipping from the states. Avoids the ripoff surcharges by UPS and fedex.)

http://www.all-spec.com/products/10110.html

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...60059&fromRR=Y

http://www.traverscanada.com/product...catalog=130220

So you recommend ordering online vs somewhere local like Greggs to buy Devcon?

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by REDLINE

So you recommend ordering online vs somewhere local like Greggs to buy Devcon?

If you are in a hurry and the extra 13 dollars doesn't faze you then Gregg's is fine. I usually buy 5 LBs at a time so I don't mind waiting to save 80 bucks. Next order I am going to qwert's suggestion of Brownell's.

1 LB will do at least 8 rifles so on a one pound buy, I would probably just go to Gregg's too.

[REDLINE]

Great!! Thanks for the advice. I'm planning on documenting my project and posting it here in the forum.

Bedding compounds that are incompressible? Does that mean their compressive strength approaches infinity? Do poured pillars suffer shrinkage? What about entrapped air, or air pockets .... very compressible last i recall. When does the chemical reaction stop and what happens if the mix ratios are off? Exposure to chemicals? On metal parts you have a much higher degree of certainty when it comes to mechanical properties. Interesting questions.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Precisionshooter

Bedding compounds that are incompressible? Does that mean their compressive strength approaches infinity? Do poured pillars suffer shrinkage? What about entrapped air, or air pockets .... very compressible last i recall. When does the chemical reaction stop and what happens if the mix ratios are off? Exposure to chemicals? On metal parts you have a much higher degree of certainty when it comes to mechanical properties. Interesting questions.

That you have all the answers for?

[Skytop B]

Originally Posted by chuck

That you have all the answers for?

Metal pillars regardless of who invented them I have been making mine out of 304 stainless lately. If using properly installed pillars all you really need bedded is the rear of the recoil lug, the rest is strictly cosmetic.