Target practice, Marksman ship

switchsl · #1 06-13-2010, 01:37 PM

Alot of people shoot alot of guns. Alot of people are incredible marksmen, some not so much. Those who put in the time, not only on the range but on the books to learn their craft this thread is directed at you, and to those who wish to learn from it. Im no sniper, I know that, but Im learning, again, as I get back into shooting after a few years away. I see alot of threads and questions regarding proper technique, overcoming a flinch etc. I was hoping some people would share their training technique in all positions and disciplines. I would like to see some groups on paper aswell, for curiousity. I was never so humbles as to watch the long range BPCR shooters, and bench guys, and it is a real eye opener to look beyond your own front door to see the skill of all shooters and what is really "great marksmanship".

Myself, I only have a few long guns left these days, My trusted tried and true M70 in 3006, A lakfield 22lr, and my baby a Pensylvannia long rifle in .50 by traditions. I have always been a firm believer in dry fire training, and have practiced this with all my guns over the years except the rimfires, handguns included. Its great practice, a cheap and effective way to learn trigger and rifle control, and cheap... aswell you can do it inside your house. I have practiced this way prone, sitting and offhand, with and without sling. The next trainer I liked requires a partner, and you get him/her to slip a blank into your chamber and fire at the range, not knowing if they loaded a live or dummy round. Its great to asses and overcome a flinch. I find the air gun a great and cheap training tool, some people tell me to just shoot a real gun, those people please move on to another thread. The pellet gun and small bore shooting I do has taught me to be a much better shot with my hunting and large bore rifles, no doubt about it. Enough for now, Ill elaborate later in discussion if anybody is interested in this thread. Ill leave with a pic of my .22cal pellet gun with 3x9x40 tactical scope, and a target from yesterday. It is a 50ft oficial small bore rifle target (cut to fit my pellet trap) each ring with a ten shot off hand group. I think I did alright, the scope was set to 3x. The cluster in the middle, is a smile face I tried when I blew out the bulls on the targets. #shot groups in the eyes and tried to connect the dots for an open mouth underneath.

Cheers, switch.

catnthehat · #2 06-13-2010, 03:39 PM

be it with an air rifle, .22, or a centre fire, nothing can take take the place of practising, if one can't get ammo on an actual target, then dry fire practise using the ten principles of a shot sequence is invaluable , regardless of the discipline involved.

The basics do not change, no matter the calibre or type of rifle.
Patience is also a virtue, and in this department I sometimes could use an extra bucket of it!!

Cat

switchsl · #3 06-13-2010, 04:51 PM

I remember the frustration of getting a good group... patients is certianly a virtue. What was worse, I had to put the rifle away after 20 0r 30 rounds due to fatigue and loss of patients alot of times, especially with the higher recoil stuff. This prolonged the process, and drove me nuts. I learned on open sights, first learning principles of sight alignment stock and cheek weld. Aquisition and focus between rear and front sight and then target was a long process. After a while I could bring my rifle up eyes closed and the sight picture was near perfect, letting me concentrate on front blade and target. Alot of time was spent without pulling the trigger to learn to do that. Most of my practice and learning was done witout firing the rifle.

trooper · #4 06-13-2010, 05:02 PM

Hi Switchsl
I went out to the black powder trail yesterday had fun with the 54 cal flintlock and the 50 percussion. seems there are alot of trees down on the trail from wind?? Call me

marlin1 · #5 06-13-2010, 11:18 PM

at what range were you shooting your targets?

Soreneck Racing · #6 06-14-2010, 10:22 AM

Switchsl; I think that you are right on the money with this idea. In fact I was given the same advise by an old retired guy. He had alot of experience in the US military, with a fair bit of experience in various competitions.

His recommendations were for me to practise lots with my .22 LR in all sorts of conditions. The knowledge and "muscle memory" that I gained would be transferable to shooting my 308 during hunting season.

I wish I could spend more time with this fellow as I think he has more knowledge to impart . . .

In the meantime, I am going to google "the ten principles of a shot sequence" as mentioned by Cat n the Hat.

switchsl · #7 06-14-2010, 11:03 AM

marlin- its an oficial 50ft small bore rifle target I posted at 40feet-the limit of my indoor range.

Soreneck- Im not sure of all 10, that sort of threw me. I remember the military acronyms HABIT (Hold, Aquire, Breath, Intinctive position, Trigger) and BRASS (Breath, Relax, Aim, Slack, Squeeze) I really had to think abou it to remember those. Within each there are a set of skills relating to your position, aquisition, breathing, hold, trigger control and follow through... I guess making up the ten? Hopefully Cat will elaborate he is a knowledgable fellow. I was taught by my father to Get into body position and determine hold, assure my eye was level and true with the sight, have a firm proper butt weld, cheek weld, make sure I was comfortable and not straining or being akward in any muscle group, to line my front blade to the target and aquire the shot, to focuss on the rear sight then the front to get into proper sight picture, focus on the front and then the target and exact shot placement, to breath once while on target, re-check back sight front sight target, breath and hold in natural pause, to squeeze the trigger with the tip of my finger allowing it to straighten as it came straight back not curl around, take up any slack, fire, to follow through by starting from the beginning of the sequence... therefore making a fast follow up easier and making a better chance of staying on target while firing due to after shot routine. A common misconception I hear from alot of shoters is the gun should scare the hell out of you when it goes off. I disagree, I think you should be in complete control and be well aware of exactly where you are in the trigger sequence and know exactly when it will go off. I have heard some people claim that precision shooting requires you to not only control your breathing and slow your heart rate, but to fire between beats, as a sling or body rest will transfer pulse through your weapon and therefore cause movement. I am no where near that dedicated, and have yet to meet somebody who is trained so well to do so. I have always wanted to be shown to properly use a sling in the 4 positions, as it improves my shooting greatly offhand with a hunting rifle as a hasty sling.

catnthehat · #8 06-14-2010, 02:34 PM

The ten princples ( or steps) of a shot sequnece that I mentioned aply to prone shooting, there are also variations of these ten steps, but these are the basics to a shot sequence pertaining to target shooting .
Interestinly enough, they can also be applied to target archery , Al Henderson explained them in a book he wrote some years back.
each step is important to the make up of a good shot sequence, and there are several steps to ensuring each is done properly.
I don't shoot competitively anymore, but still practice each step when shooting.
Now there are some that may say parts can be omitted for a huntig rifle shot, and that may be so, but of they are learned properly, they will be performed subconsciously.

Theyare 1: Target aquisiton
2: loading
3: initial positioning
4: Automatic alignment check ( some call it "natural alignment")
5: target focus
6:breathing
7:trigger squeeze/shot break
8:follow through/shot call
9:gun unloaded
10: rest
Cat

CletusT · #9 06-14-2010, 05:21 PM

The key is consistancy. Everything has to be the same every time. I'm by no means am I benchrest shooter, but do pride myself on accuracy with every caliber. The "it'll kill a deer" atitude just isn't good enough. The biggest issue I have is trigger pull. Here's a trick I was tought that seems to help;

Place your firearm in something sturdy (I use the leadsled rest).
Place a coin on the end of your barrel and practice trigger pull.
When perfect the coin should not move.

If your concerned about dry firing you can also buy those spring loaded cartridges.

No proof, But have shot a few good groups;

3-shots .337" with 300 WSM
consistenly have shoot .2's with 243

CletusT · #10 06-14-2010, 05:23 PM

Before people start breathing down my neck about my accuracy. Distance was 100 yards, and I enfisize I'm not a bench rest shooter and have a long way to go before I get there.

catnthehat · #11 06-14-2010, 07:26 PM

The ten steps I laid out are for three position match shooting , they will vary a bit for bench rest competition , but not much.
The difference would be in setting up the bench and your body positioning, because the gun is rested more on the bench than the shooter's bone structure.
Cat

switchsl · #12 06-15-2010, 11:10 AM

Thanks for the explanation Cat. Most of my competition shooting was done in offhand, and a bit of sillhouette, the rules and positions are different. Walking a BP trail is an altogether different shoot, as your targets and distances not to mention elevations change on every shot. Never the less, all the principles apply to any fire arm. If I wasnt so tied up I would sure like to go out and do some range work. Sucks that its an hour drive for me.