Trophy Sheep 2012

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Twobucks

While we are playing "what if's". . .it seems to me that there should be some way of prioritizing dedicated sheep hunters.

What if draw eligibility was tied to either an educational requirement (like a sheep biology or mountain skills course) or a conservation volunteer requirement? Divide sheep tag draws into a Pool A and Pool B.

I realize it's not a perfect solution and that the government is not likely to be keen on more programs to administer. But especially with talk of more tags going to draw, there should be some mechanism that protects or bolsters opportunities for the truly dedicated.

This is a "tongue in cheek" funny comment..... right?

Once we start tiering hunting tags/seasons/etc. based on the "worthiness" of the hunter we have lost our way

....once you are eligible to hunt you may do so....

Because someone grew up in the mountains and knows their area are they more worthy of hunting sheep than a farm kid from the prairies?

Maybe the mountain men should learn some crop science before they can hunt white tail on farm land?

LC

[Twobucks]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

This is a "tongue in cheek" funny comment..... right?

Once we start tiering hunting tags/seasons/etc. based on the "worthiness" of the hunter we have lost our way

....once you are eligible to hunt you may do so....

Because someone grew up in the mountains and knows their area are they more worthy of hunting sheep than a farm kid from the prairies?

Maybe the mountain men should learn some crop science before they can hunt white tail on farm land?

LC

No - not tongue-in-cheek. Not really committed to the idea either. But people were floating ideas around pricing others out of tags or the ups and downs of draws.

The idea of prioritizing tags through draws is already accepted. There have been rumblings about more draws for sheep in future. I'm just suggesting that getting people to show they are serious about the opportunity by giving a few hours a year through education or volunteering might be a way of keeping a certain type of hunting viable for the future.

That system would only exclude or lessen the chances of someone who didn't spend the time. It would also provide some people for conservation projects.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Twobucks

While we are playing "what if's". . .it seems to me that there should be some way of prioritizing dedicated sheep hunters.

What if draw eligibility was tied to either an educational requirement (like a sheep biology or mountain skills course) or a conservation volunteer requirement? Divide sheep tag draws into a Pool A and Pool B.

I realize it's not a perfect solution and that the government is not likely to be keen on more programs to administer. But especially with talk of more tags going to draw, there should be some mechanism that protects or bolsters opportunities for the truly dedicated.

I can't believe that someone who calls himself a sportsman could promote such selfish discrimination of his fellow sportsmen. I'm betting that of course the poster believes that he would qualify for the privilege of the sheep hunt. But what if I wrote the rules and he didn't? Does that sound so brilliant then?

[Twobucks]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I can't believe that someone who calls himself a sportsman could promote such selfish discrimination of his fellow sportsmen. I'm betting that of course the poster believes that he would qualify for the privilege of the sheep hunt. But what if I wrote the rules and he didn't? Does that sound so brilliant then?

Easy does it Internet Hero - I don't think you actually read the post.

I'm just throwing out an idea, not trying to invite personal attacks.

[flipper62]

Time for the grown ups to get involved and close this thread.

What do you think moderators?

[CNR]

For the draw....the once in a lifetime deal is perfect. Equal opportunity for everyone. And if you are dumb enough, not to hunt...great you just made a monster ram bigger! The general tag....I think the time delay idea between shooting rams (1st ram - 1yr, 2nd ram - 3yrs....etc) is the best idea. I'd love to shoot a big ram every 2nd year but I think the resource can't take that amount of hunting pressure in 438. Cadomin is a mini city openning day....

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by CNR

For the draw....the once in a lifetime deal is perfect. Equal opportunity for everyone. And if you are dumb enough, not to hunt...great you just made a monster ram bigger! The general tag....I think the time delay idea between shooting rams (1st ram - 1yr, 2nd ram - 3yrs....etc) is the best idea. I'd love to shoot a big ram every 2nd year but I think the resource can't take that amount of hunting pressure in 438. Cadomin is a mini city openning day....

I think part of the issue is there are guys who have been putting in for sheep since long before the draw priority system....and have top priority now and have not yet been drawn in certain WMU's, to toss aside all those years in one fell swoop and put them on an equal playing field to a "first timer" is not cool.

The one option is to allow those folks to put into different areas without losing priority OR to allow their names to go into the draw the same number of times equivalent to the priority they hold...P15 = 15 times your name goes in.....

The system was created years ago I think before certain things were really "thought about"....IMHO.

The top priority 30+ guys are competing for 5 tags (in theroy within 6 years they will all have been drawn)....the very next priority behind them holds almost 2K guys (if I am not mistaken).....so basically if you are not top priority you are drawing for a once in a lifetime tag anyhow.

LC

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Twobucks

Easy does it Internet Hero - I don't think you actually read the post.

I'm just throwing out an idea, not trying to invite personal attacks.

I read it, I couldn't believe that someone would actually say something that discriminatory and self serving out loud and pretend it was for the good of the sport.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I read it, I couldn't believe that someone would actually say something that discriminatory and self serving out loud and pretend it was for the good of the sport.

X2. thats pretty weak.

its no secret that 11000 people apply for the sheep draws because its only 3 bucks. make an application 25 for the premier species and youll put a stop to guys applying in their wifes name, their daughters name, the neighbour, the neighbours kid, the dog, grandma who died last year............

25 bucks aint too much for anyone that can afford to hunt, but it would likely be enough to stop the insanity. that and prosecute the dingleberries that shoot these animals on their wifes, daughters or dogs tag too. im still not sure how the guy that shot a muntain goat on his wifes tag talked his way out of that one with eyewitnesses reporting it.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

X2. thats pretty weak.

its no secret that 11000 people apply for the sheep draws because its only 3 bucks. make an application 25 for the premier species and youll put a stop to guys applying in their wifes name, their daughters name, the neighbour, the neighbours kid, the dog, grandma who died last year............

25 bucks aint too much for anyone that can afford to hunt, but it would likely be enough to stop the insanity. that and prosecute the dingleberries that shoot these animals on their wifes, daughters or dogs tag too. im still not sure how the guy that shot a muntain goat on his wifes tag talked his way out of that one with eyewitnesses reporting it.

Exactly. It has to be something. Whatever that something is. Whether it is 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 200 etc. It needs to be more than $3 regardless of what the forum politicians think.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by chuck

Exactly. It has to be something. Whatever that something is. Whether it is 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 200 etc. It needs to be more than $3 regardless of what the forum politicians think.

X3!!!...I would be all for it, as long as the extra $$$ go directly to the SRD (?) budget and not IBM, or general revenue.....I guess directly to the fish and wildlife resource management

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by hal53

X3!!!...I would be all for it, as long as the extra $$$ go directly to the SRD (?) budget and not IBM, or general revenue.....I guess directly to the fish and wildlife resource management

I would hope.

Originally Posted by hal53

X3!!!...I would be all for it, as long as the extra $$$ go directly to the SRD (?) budget and not IBM, or general revenue.....I guess directly to the fish and wildlife resource management

All licence money that makes it to the government goes into general revenue.....sadly.

[Hooter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

All licence money that makes it to the government goes into general revenue.....sadly.

You are correct, however perhaps it could be written that the "premium" paid for "premium" species draws/tags (i.e. sheep) could go directly to SRD. Just a thought....

[Twobucks]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I read it, I couldn't believe that someone would actually say something that discriminatory and self serving out loud and pretend it was for the good of the sport.

Either you didn't read it or your reading comprehension is poor.

There is nothing self serving about what I suggested: if a person wanted to be eligible for a tag (or have better odds in a draw) they would have to take a one day course or give x amount of hours to volunteer for sheep conservation.

The only people that would exclude are the people unwilling to take a course or give one day a year to conservation.

Under such a system everyone in the province would be on the same footing.

Nowhere did I suggest that the province throw out the years of priority some have built in sheep draws.

I also agree that higher draw prices for some "premium" species might be a good solution.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Twobucks

Either you didn't read it or your reading comprehension is poor.

There is nothing self serving about what I suggested: if a person wanted to be eligible for a tag (or have better odds in a draw) they would have to take a one day course or give x amount of hours to volunteer for sheep conservation.

The only people that would exclude are the people unwilling to take a course or give one day a year to conservation.

Under such a system everyone in the province would be on the same footing.

Nowhere did I suggest that the province throw out the years of priority some have built in sheep draws.

Just curious as to what this would achieve or hope to achieve?

Take a course to be allowed to hunt sheep?....volunteer time to be eligible for the draw?

Maybe I just can't think outside the box. I am interested in the approach you are suggesting.....can you explain your vision a little bit more please?

My understanding is there is a finite number of draws on any given year....the priority system has been in place since the new draw system. To further segregate sheep hunters into separate pools would just exclude too many people....now if you are talking about 2 pools where nonresidents and outfitters vs. residents were concerned (on a relative percentage basis say 20:80 ratio)....I would listen!

LC

[Twobucks]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Just curious as to what this would achieve or hope to achieve?

Take a course to be allowed to hunt sheep?....volunteer time to be eligible for the draw?

Maybe I just can't think outside the box. I am interested in the approach you are suggesting.....can you explain your vision a little bit more please?

LC

I don't think it's fair to scrap the existing priority system - and with just two years back in the province, believe me, that system isn't helping me any! I'm talking about something that might apply to zones that would go to draw in future.

As I said in a previous post - I'm not committed to the idea, but it's worth a little thought. Some are concerned about competition for a limited number of sheep tags, and that some people will apply for anything just because of the low threshold: $3 and you're in!

So set a requirement that is still relatively easy to meet but would discourage casual applicants. In some ways it's the hands on alternative to just bumping up fees.

Education seems the weaker of the two ideas - but with the number of questions on this forum about mountain skills and sheep in general, a short course might put better prepared hunters in the field and might discourage people who think "Aw, might as well. . ."

Conservation is simpler - and maybe it wouldn't have to be for sheep specifically. You want to get a chance to draw, then you have to give a few hours on an approved wildlife project.

Think in the case of Wainwright - hunters have to attend a mandatory morning briefing. This idea isn't that different.

There are other practical problems with the idea, but I don't see how it is unfair to anyone.

[walking buffalo]

This and the Sheep Licence Price thread are disturbing.....



Why are so many hunters suggesting ways to limit sheep hunting when there is NO PROVEN CONCERN WITH SHEEP POPULATIONS?


I suspect a little of two spices are taking effect. Those who inherently want to make hunting an elitist activity, and those who are believing the anti-hunting biologists propoganda.

.

Many people are working behind the scenes on the Sheep management issue. To date, the Government has refused to allow ANYONE other than themselves to see the sheep data. The government refuses to put habitat or predator management issues ahead of simply limiting hunting in a very significant way.



Don't Drink the Cool-Aid.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

This and the Sheep Licence Price thread are disturbing.....

Don't Drink the Cool-Aid.

X2.....I agree

LC

[Pillage]

[QUOTE=walking buffalo;1540443]


This and the Sheep Licence Price thread are disturbing.....


X2.. Getting sick of checking back on these threads.




.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Twobucks

Either you didn't read it or your reading comprehension is poor.

There is nothing self serving about what I suggested: if a person wanted to be eligible for a tag (or have better odds in a draw) they would have to take a one day course or give x amount of hours to volunteer for sheep conservation.

The only people that would exclude are the people unwilling to take a course or give one day a year to conservation.

Under such a system everyone in the province would be on the same footing.

Nowhere did I suggest that the province throw out the years of priority some have built in sheep draws.

I also agree that higher draw prices for some "premium" species might be a good solution.

Sure it is self serving. You want to cull the number of people who could enter the draw and increase your own chances. You don't expect us to believe that you wouldn't be entering the draw do you?
Segregating hunters into elite and regular rankings is a very firm first step down the road to paid hunting.

[Pathfinder76]

I'd think anyone in Alberta who has a WIN card should be automatically entered randomly into one of the lottery sheep draws and then get the next two draw applications of their choice for free.