Gun Registry Super Thread (please thank your Liberal/NDP friends)

32-40win · #1 03-21-2018, 03:46 AM

Figured I may as well post this, maybe a mod wants to sticky it for a bit, that way people can at least look at it;

http://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en.../first-reading

32-40win · #2 03-21-2018, 02:40 PM

And firearm lawyer Ian Runkle's quick interpretation of it;

Firearms Lawyer Ian Runkle's take on C-71
As quoted in another forum:

Thought this was a very interesting read. Copied and pasted from Ian's Facebook post:

"Okay, so I have been away most of the day, which means that my commentary on the new firearms bill is a little late. But, here goes.

Minor stuff:
* It incorporates the language used in the Criminal Code for definitions. This is sensible.

* Some grammatical changes, mostly which recognize that businesses/corporations exist.

More important stuff:

* Section 5(2) of the Firearms Act is amended to remove the "within the previous 5 years" that was previously incorporated. So instead of the CFO having to consider what happened in the previous five years, they now have to consider the issue generally. The effect of this is actually fairly minimal, because the courts had said that the CFO/etc are more than entitled to consider things outside the five year range, and the CFO/etc did consider it.

* Section 12 is amended by creating a new blanket grandfathering clause that can be done by regulation. Now, this suggests that the current government may intend to prohibit more firearms in future. However, it also suggests that they may grandfather in existing owners. This is a big warning sign for gun owners going forward, and one I haven't yet seen discussed. These firearms will also be excluded from the automatic ATT provisions. However, the new category of grandfathered firearms are not necessarily barred from being issued an ATT. This creates an uneven patchwork of laws that is exactly the opposite direction our firearms laws should be going.

* They are adding a specific grandfathering clause for the CZ 858 and the Swiss Arms rifles for owners who had one before June 30th, 2018. It's not yet June 30th... anyone feeling like giving me a present?

* Automatic ATTs for prohibited firearms are being clawed back, meaning most can't be taken to ranges. Those who have 12(6) firearms (short-barreled handguns) and who have registered as collectors will also not be issued an ATT that allows range trips for those firearms.

* Non-restricted firearms can now only be transferred if you call the CFO and get a reference number for the transfer. This is going to be a serious issue for gun shows, most of which happen on weekends, when the CFO is not open. It'll be a headache generally, because the CFOs office does not keep the hours they claim to keep (I frequently find that if I call in at 1:00 PM I may get the message that tells me that they closed at 4:00 PM and to call again the next day). This will also aggravate the issues associated with the CFO practice of placing a licence "under review", which is not permitted by the legislation, and effectively means that a person with a valid licence is nevertheless barred by CFO fiat from exercising transfers. This is a practice that I have been looking for an opportunity to challenge in court, though. Oh, and violating this is grounds for revocation of your firearms licence... though it'd also be grounds for criminal charges. The net effect of that is mostly something that interests folks like me, because it provides negotiation options.

* Businesses must now keep records of transfers for 20 years, which they provide very little details on confidentiality for. The Liberal Party has been spinning this as though the only way for the police or the CFO to get access to those records is via a warrant, and thus this is not a backdoor registry. This is either a lie or a fairly major oversight, because section 102 of the Firearms Act allows for inspection of a businesses records on fairly broad basis, including copying details. So... yeah. These records will be easily available to the CFO. Additionally, a business going under has to transfer the records to the CFO. So... not quite a registry, but definitely has some substantial monitoring.

* Major omission: Refusals to issue a reference number aren't enunciated in section 74 (referring decisions of a firearms officer to a court to have them reviewed). This means that challenges to this are going to be in a legal limbo. Arguably case law (including Runkle v. Alberta) says that this new creature will be reviewable by the section 74 process, but it would have been nice to clear up this particular disaster.

* It also revokes a ton of ATTs. So, there is going to be one hell of a backlog at the CFO's office the instant this gets proclaimed.

* Restores the prohibition on the CZ 858 and the Swiss Arms rifles.

* Allows the government to retain the long gun registry data.

* Removes the ability of the government to designate something as non-restricted by Order In Council.

Okay, so, some comments:

First, it makes sense that the same principles that allow a firearm to be designated as restricted by law or prohibited by law should allow the government to make it non-restricted. The whole "we need to take these decisions out of the hands of politicians" rhetoric is insane, because of course politicians decide the laws. The LPC just wants to ensure a 'ratchet' effect, where firearms can move to being more restricted, but cannot easily move back to being less restricted. This assumes that the government will never make an error, which is silly.

Second, there are indications in this bill of planned prohibitions to come. The people saying "Oh, they're not banning anything" are wrong, because there are clear plans laid to ban things.

Third, this legislation doesn't fix any of the legislative disaster that is our firearms laws, and generally makes things worse by making it an even more uneven patchwork of conflicting rules. I have no idea how laypeople are expected to navigate this.

Fourth, the business records provisions are not as described--because these records are not excluded from the application of s. 105, the promises that a warrant will be needed to get this information are flatly false. I leave it to the reader to decide if this creates a back door registry. If the goal is to create same, this is probably the worst of all possible worlds, as it will be highly unreliable for determining anything."
__________________

32-40win · #3 03-24-2018, 05:00 PM

some good info on resources to combat c71, some info that can be read, watched or listened to, addresses and e-mails for some gov't offices.

Some extra reading/viewing material:

Join the Conservative Party of Canada: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...arty-of-Canada

Firearms Lawyer Ian Runkle's take on-C-71: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...s-take-on-C-71

Swiss Arms Research project: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...search-project

Brian Lilley: http://brianlilley.com/goodales-gun-...-doesnt-exist/

Rod Giltaca: http://gundebate.ca

CBC - Solomon Friedman confronts Wendy Cukier on bill C-71 (at the 1:25:45 mark): http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1190740547573/

Tony Bernardo goes up against Wendy Cukier: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1352180

Ralph Goodale speaking out of his @ss: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1352177

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Larry Smith larry.smith@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-996-8555
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Eric Forest Eric.Forest@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-996-2171
Rosa Galvez rosa.galvez@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-996-2210
Marc Gold marc.gold@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-995-9211
Leo Housakos Leo.Housakos@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-947-4237
Serge Joyal serge.joyal@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-943-0434
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Thanh Hai Ngo thanhhai.ngo@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-943-1599
Victo Oh senator.oh@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-943-1880
Ratna Omidvar Ratna.Omidvar@sen.parl.gc.ca 613-943-4330
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CCFR (Canadian Coalitian for Firearms Rights):
Rod Giltaca, Tracey Wilson
Membership $40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Np_l0OefYkY
https://youtu.be/mzfbTGnsAzI

Bellero · #4 03-24-2018, 11:13 PM

Great post, thank you.

32-40win · #5 03-25-2018, 09:56 PM

A very good guide to communicating with your MP and any others you e-mail and write to, from the CSSA;

http://web-extract.constantcontact.c...D1520958259000

Boogerfart · #6 03-25-2018, 10:23 PM

Awesome, thanks for taking the time to share all the info.

32-40win · #7 03-26-2018, 12:17 AM

Standing Commitee on National Safety and Public Security (SECU) members and contacts;

32-40win · #8 03-30-2018, 04:22 AM

Just bumping to keep the info in a spot where it is easy to find

32-40win · #9 04-01-2018, 02:10 PM

nuther bump

32-40win · #10 04-01-2018, 03:47 PM

Thought I should add this video to point out that how you respond to the Liberals is important, keep it civil, don't rant at them, earn some respect from them instead of having them dismiss you as a uneducated ranting gun nut.
CCFR and NFA are both saying the same thing in that regard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tZhr43b0J0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NltB...ature=youtu.be

32-40win · #11 04-01-2018, 07:21 PM

https://www.nfa.ca/nfa-executive-sum...-guy-lavergne/

32-40win · #12 04-05-2018, 04:57 AM

Apparently the SECU is the bunch to concentrate on at the moment, let them know your opinion, nicely. They will send it back for third reading. Apparently the head of that committee is fairly decent.

32-40win · #13 04-08-2018, 09:03 PM

Bimp.

32-40win · #14 04-12-2018, 02:02 PM

apparently this was presented to the SECU this week, a paper on how the LIbs twisted figures;
http://justiceforgunowners.ca/bill-c...a-red-herring/

32-40win · #15 04-13-2018, 01:37 PM

Some comments fro John Hipwell from Wolverine in Manitoba;
https://thegunblog.ca/2018/03/22/wol...bans-business/

32-40win · #16 04-13-2018, 01:43 PM

And some comments from the CSSA and the RCMP;
https://thegunblog.ca/2018/03/20/new...rcmp-responds/

32-40win · #17 04-16-2018, 03:11 PM

Nothing too special going on. It appears Cdn Tire may be taking on a policy of recording personal info from PAL's and calling in PAL's, to buy ammo, starting June 1st. Keep an eye on that.

32-40win · #18 04-19-2018, 03:12 PM

A presentation to the SECU committee;

32-40win · #19 04-21-2018, 05:26 PM

CSSA AGM vid on what they are doing regarding Ruger 10/22 mags and how the gov't is treating this in C71. Worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMlc...ature=youtu.be

32-40win · #20 04-30-2018, 03:01 PM

bimp agin

32-40win · #21 05-01-2018, 04:03 AM

Decent podcast from the CCFR, interview with MP Bob Zimmer, discussing C71, some stuff about C75 as well, and what goes on in Parliament behind the scenes. Apparently a lot of rural Liberals are not very happy with C71 or C75. On one hand they are pushing new un-necessary regulations down gun owners throats, and giving people like smugglers and terrorist supporters, a break.
Trudeau certainly seems to have an agenda, probably not a smart one. Defense lawyers are not very happy about it either, there are processes in there that are indicating their clients could get steamrolled under certain situations.
If you are interested, Google "Bill C75 lawyer reviews".

https://podcast.ccfr.ca/episodes/ccf...april-29-2018/

32-40win · #22 05-05-2018, 01:55 AM

SECU meets on Tues may 8th. You can watch it if you like. This is where the amendments to C71 can be made;

http://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentVie...ing-112/notice

32-40win · #23 05-08-2018, 01:22 PM

Here is the SECU meeting video from today. Mr Goodale presented his side and took questions on it. Draw your own conclusions, make sure to watch the whole thing, it is 2 hrs.

http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/XRender/en/...0Safari/537.36

Newview01 · #24 05-08-2018, 02:50 PM

I couldn't get through 5 minutes. The crap coming from Goodale makes me physically ill.

His claim that this legislation is going to make Canada safer is a bald faced lie.

32-40win · #25 05-09-2018, 03:51 AM

Ralphy wasn't stating it, but he has more planned revelations to come that he hinted at. I think there was a little stage play from Damoff and the DOJ, it stinks like a setup to the next round after C71, after watching the second go round, it appears to be pre-scripted. The boys from AB made them a bit uncomfortable, there were some questions asked that could have been expounded on, such as the correlation between C71 and c75 and the money spending that Goodale promised towards " crime prevention". Goodale was lying thru his teeth, even the NDP guy was sounding doubtful of what he heard, and one Lib lady asked some interestingly mild, but, pointed questions. Fella from Quebec asked some pointed stuff as well.

32-40win · #26 05-15-2018, 04:16 AM

John Hipwell will be presenting at the SECU, along with some other people. CCFR got an invite. RCMP seem to be promoting that this bill is law already, or at least preparing for the day it does come. Fair bit of stuff going on this week.

32-40win · #27 05-17-2018, 03:17 AM

If you'd like to see what briefs are being presented to the SECU, and by whom, you can check them out here;

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Committees...ityId=10058758

32-40win · #28 05-17-2018, 03:41 AM

And this is just priceless. The RCMP don't know where these guns are exactly, nobody registered them, yet.

https://thegunblog.ca/2018/05/16/rcm...ing-c-71-info/

32-40win · #29 05-22-2018, 03:31 PM

Today is the day the various anti-gun groups and victims groups testify at the SECU. No film allowed, just audio.

http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/XRender/en/...nt=Mozilla/5.0

Thursday will be another day of testimony, for the pro-gun side.

32-40win · #30 05-24-2018, 02:48 AM

The SECU will be hearing the more pro firearms side today. CCFR, John Hipwell from Wolverine and some others should be presenting their arguments today.

And , Mr Goodale rejected the petition from last year, to have the people on the Firearms council take the PAL/RPAL courses before being able to sit on the council.
You can read one article on it here;
https://ipolitics.ca/2018/05/23/good...chelle-rempel/